Paypal CC chargeback question

[abaez]

Sold my rift account (not on ebay) and buyer paid with Paypal. Two days later buyer files claim that the account was an "imitation" and "not as described."

I basically owned him and won the claim. This was back on February 5th.

Got an email from Paypal yesterday saying that the buyer filed a chargeback with his CC saying the charge was unauthorized. I've responded in the claim that buyer was in communication with me for two days before I transferred the account and confirmed receipt of item (and uploaded a screenshot of correspondence). I also noted that he was contacted by Paypal on the phone regarding his original claim (that he lost) and that through all that buyer did not once say the transaction was unauthorized.

I also noted that federal law dictates buyer must report unauthorized transactions within a reasonable amount of time (2-5 days?) to not be liable for any charges and three weeks is not a reasonable amount of time (the original transaction was on Jan 23). If the unauthorized transactions are reported after this time, but before 60 days, they can be liable for up to $500. So he is liable in either case.

Anyone ever been through this? Do I have any sort of shot? I thought I would for sure lose the first claim but winning has got my hopes up. Fighting a CC company is different than some dumbshit loser though...

UPDATE 3-9 Got this email from Paypal just now:

Your buyer filed a chargeback with their credit card company asking to
reverse the above payment. Although your buyer reversed this payment, we
want to work with the buyer's credit card company to get your money back.
We are using the information you sent us to dispute the reversal.

Please note that because the buyer already reversed the payment, it has
been removed from your PayPal balance. The settlement fee the credit card
company charged for the reversal was also deducted from your account. If
the credit card company decides the case in your favor, this money will be
credited back to your PayPal balance.

Keep in mind that the credit card company determines the timeframe and
outcome. It may take up to 75 days for the credit card company to reach a
final decision. We will email you once they complete their investigation.

The settlement fee is $20 :/ I think the fraud is quite obvious and hopefully his CC agrees.

 

[Ns1]

I'm amazed you won the first one, not sure about the second.

(the following is PP's policy, so I'm not sure how you won this one!)

Frequently Asked Questions - Seller Protection
What types of transactions are covered?

All transactions for tangible goods that were paid for with PayPal are eligible for coverage if they meet the requirements for US sellers-except those processed through Virtual Terminal or PayPal Direct Payment. Read the PayPal User Agreement for our complete terms of coverage.


What's the difference between tangible and intangible goods?

A tangible good can be held and shipped (CD, mobile phone).
An intangible good can't be held or shipped in a box (MP3, ringtone).


Why doesn't Seller Protection cover deliveries made in person, or intangible goods (such as digital goods or services)?

One of the most important requirements for coverage under Seller Protection is proof of shipment or delivery. Since deliveries made in person and sales of intangible goods do not have verifiable shipping documentation, we cannot currently extend protection for these types of transactions.

 

[Krazy4Real]

I think you have sufficient evidence to win this. Just stay calm, show your evidence and you should be able to continue putting losers like this in their place. I hate people that try to scam the system.

 

[chalmers]

Used to happen all the time when people sold their Wow accounts back in the mid 2000's. People would buy them, chargeback, win, and keep the money and the account. Good luck.

 

[Evadman]

How in the world did you win the first one? Also, "federal law dictates buyer must report unauthorized transactions within a reasonable amount of time" is generally 2 months, though some CC's will do 3 or more.

IANAL.

 

[abaez]

I'm not sure how I won the first one. Sellers aren't protected by digital goods, but buyers aren't either. I guess me putting a screenshot of the email of him confirming that he received the information was enough to say that I completed my end of the transaction? The claim history also says they called him.

Evadman: From what I've read everywhere it's summarized like this:

Truth in Lending Act protections for credit cards, which cap a consumer's liability for unauthorized transactions at $50, the law limits liability to $50 if the debit cardholder notifies the bank within two business days after discovering the theft. If you don't notify your bank within those two days, you could lose up to $500, or perhaps more. In the worst-case scenario — if you receive a bank statement that includes an unauthorized debit-card withdrawal and you wait more than 60 days to alert your bank — you could be liable for any amounts from transactions made after that 60-day period.

I understand that different CC's have different policies, but I really don't think CC's allow you to report unauthorized transactions after 3 months with no liability do they?

 

[SpatiallyAware]

You will not win this. As a seller you are offered NO protection if the buyer files a chargeback on their card. None, period, nada. Paypal will tell you to take the buyer to court over it.


Paypal does not care about state law, and they don't care about federal law. Buyer chargeback on CC = funds instantly removed from sellers account. Paypal can't do a thing about the chargeback, so if they pay you it would be money out of their pockets.



Good luck.

 

[D1gger]

I'm not sure how I won the first one. Sellers aren't protected by digital goods, but buyers aren't either. I guess me putting a screenshot of the email of him confirming that he received the information was enough to say that I completed my end of the transaction? The claim history also says they called him.

Evadman: From what I've read everywhere it's summarized like this:



I understand that different CC's have different policies, but I really don't think CC's allow you to report unauthorized transactions after 3 months with no liability do they?

I reported an unauthorized CC transaction that was just about 2 months old and they covered it with no $50 deductible.

 

[abaez]

You will not win this. As a seller you are offered NO protection if the buyer files a chargeback on their card. None, period, nada. Paypal will tell you to take the buyer to court over it.


Paypal does not care about state law, and they don't care about federal law. Buyer chargeback on CC = funds instantly removed from sellers account. Paypal can't do a thing about the chargeback, so if they pay you it would be money out of their pockets.



Good luck.

So what happens if the buyer filed a chargeback and I had already closed my paypal account. Does paypal eat it?

 

[M0RPH]

If he has already withdrawn the money to his bank account, there's no way Paypal can get it back, right? They will put a negative balance on the account and eventually close it, I suppose, but what else can they do?

 

[SpatiallyAware]

So what happens if the buyer filed a chargeback and I had already closed my paypal account. Does paypal eat it?

I would not be surprised if you agree to be held responsible for any/all things like this when you agree to their TOS. I know for a fact that they can and will chase you even if you close your bank account, so I assume closing paypal acct wouldn't matter either. If it's a small amount of money they probably wouldn't pursue it.

 

[3chordcharlie]

I don't entirely understand why any seller would accept paypal.

 

[abaez]

We'll see what happens. I'm hoping that since Paypal actually *called* him about the claim that pretty much says that he knew about the transaction.

I don't entirely understand why any seller would accept paypal.

I've had a paypal account since like the late 90's and this is the first issue I've had. It's so ubiquitous that you really have no other choice. How else would he have paid me?

 

[3chordcharlie]

We'll see what happens. I'm hoping that since Paypal actually *called* him about the claim that pretty much says that he knew about the transaction.



I've had a paypal account since like the late 90's and this is the first issue I've had. It's so ubiquitous that you really have no other choice. How else would he have paid me?

It's not the frequency of problems, it's the complete screwing of sellers when there is a problem.

As a buyer I have used paypal, though not in the last decade. As a seller who is too small to take CC, I'm not sure I would be in business if my choice was a payment system that will fuck me, even if I do everything right.

 

[Ns1]

If he has already withdrawn the money to his bank account, there's no way Paypal can get it back, right? They will put a negative balance on the account and eventually close it, I suppose, but what else can they do?

send your ass to collections

 

[rpanic]

I had a chargeback that was 6 months after item was sold. Had tracking info and email from buyer that they received item. Out the money and item fuck paypal will never accept payment from them again.

 

[isekii]

I'm going through something similar but on Amazon.

I sold a GSkill DDR2 Dimm to a Seller. The product description from amazon is for a kit, but I specifically noted in the comments "This is for **ONE** 2 GB STICK. This was part of a dual channel set. Lost the 2nd stick so only ONE STICK for sale."
Priced it half of whatever going rate was on amazon.

The buyer files a complaint with amazon saying that he received only one stick and I'm awaiting the outcome.

These retards just don't know how to read or are always out to work the system.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

We'll see what happens. I'm hoping that since Paypal actually *called* him about the claim that pretty much says that he knew about the transaction.



I've had a paypal account since like the late 90's and this is the first issue I've had. It's so ubiquitous that you really have no other choice. How else would he have paid me?

You are very lucky that you haven't had any issues.. Keep in mind that a buyer is very protected, it's the seller that gets screwed.

I would rather accept a personal check, although paypal being crappy is the main reason I don't mess with selling stuff online. Between the real scammers and paypal, it's just not worth it.

 

[abaez]

Honestly, it's not that much money. I was able to get the account back by using the secret questions, I just want to win to fuck this guy over thinking he could game the system.

I'll update the thread with the result.

 

[halik]

Sold my rift account (not on ebay) and buyer paid with Paypal. Two days later buyer files claim that the account was an "imitation" and "not as described."

I basically owned him and won the claim. This was back on February 5th.

Got an email from Paypal yesterday saying that the buyer filed a chargeback with his CC saying the charge was unauthorized. I've responded in the claim that buyer was in communication with me for two days before I transferred the account and confirmed receipt of item (and uploaded a screenshot of correspondence). I also noted that he was contacted by Paypal on the phone regarding his original claim (that he lost) and that through all that buyer did not once say the transaction was unauthorized.

I also noted that federal law dictates buyer must report unauthorized transactions within a reasonable amount of time (2-5 days?) to not be liable for any charges and three weeks is not a reasonable amount of time (the original transaction was on Jan 23). If the unauthorized transactions are reported after this time, but before 60 days, they can be liable for up to $500. So he is liable in either case.

Anyone ever been through this? Do I have any sort of shot? I thought I would for sure lose the first claim but winning has got my hopes up. Fighting a CC company is different than some dumbshit loser though...

If you've already transfered money to your bank account, you can tell paypal to suck it. They're not a registered/licensed bank and as such cannot make unilateral transactions on your bank account.

 

[halik]

You will not win this. As a seller you are offered NO protection if the buyer files a chargeback on their card. None, period, nada. Paypal will tell you to take the buyer to court over it.


Paypal does not care about state law, and they don't care about federal law. Buyer chargeback on CC = funds instantly removed from sellers paypal account. Paypal can't do a thing about the chargeback, so if they pay you it would be money out of their pockets.



Good luck.

fixed

 

[abaez]

If you've already transfered money to your bank account, you can tell paypal to suck it. They're not a registered/licensed bank and as such cannot make unilateral transactions on your bank account.

The money was in my bank account. My paypal account is now in the negative. I'm sure I can be taken to collections if I do not resolve that negative balance.

 

[halik]

The money was in my bank account. My paypal account is now in the negative. I'm sure I can be taken to collections if I do not resolve that negative balance.

I don't remeber putting SSOC number when i signed up for paypal.

 

[purbeast0]

I'm amazed you won the first one, not sure about the second.

(the following is PP's policy, so I'm not sure how you won this one!)

Frequently Asked Questions - Seller Protection
What types of transactions are covered?

None. Sellers are fucked.

fixed.

 

[abaez]

UPDATE, Got this email from Paypal just now:

Your buyer filed a chargeback with their credit card company asking to
reverse the above payment. Although your buyer reversed this payment, we
want to work with the buyer's credit card company to get your money back.
We are using the information you sent us to dispute the reversal.

Please note that because the buyer already reversed the payment, it has
been removed from your PayPal balance. The settlement fee the credit card
company charged for the reversal was also deducted from your account. If
the credit card company decides the case in your favor, this money will be
credited back to your PayPal balance.

Keep in mind that the credit card company determines the timeframe and
outcome. It may take up to 75 days for the credit card company to reach a
final decision. We will email you once they complete their investigation.

The settlement fee is $20 :/