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Paul Ryan's speech in favor of Keynesian stimulus spending

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
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Saw this morning. On the one hand its mind blowing on its face. On the other hand its par for the GOP course. Their entire MO is, "we are for it". "Unless Obama is for it". "Then we are against it".

This speech by Paul Ryan in 2002 blows away the entire rationale for almost the entire GOP agenda in the next election. If voters look at this, compare it to the GOP platform today, its a complete 180. Its a complete repudiation of all of todays GOP talking points.

"deficits, debt, unemployment, stimulus spending, job creation, health insurance, spending in times of recession"

http://www.businessinsider.com/paul-ryan-support-of-stimulus-2012-8

Just watch!

Hell, the Dems can make a commercial by just running this. Almost no need for commentary.
 

Anarchist420

Diamond Member
Feb 13, 2010
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I agree with all of it, but there is no reason to expect otherwise... the GOP has always been Keynesian to its core since 1854. The "job creators" crap is actually a Keynesian fallacy, because they're assuming the tax cuts would be spent by "job creators" on labor (employment) and to "grow the economy", rather than saved ("hoarded" as Keynesians would say) and a necessary recession, respectively. We need GDP to go down, because it has gotten way too high (mainly due to high govt spending and all of the expensive shitty stuff produced).

BTW, here's a funny, but totally accurate impression of Ryan I read a few days ago...

Ryan: Der, I love capitalism. But der, we gotta save it from itself yet again. Boy we gotta save this capitalism from itself an awful lot. I wonder what's really wrong with capitalism, durpa durp. Thank the Good Lord, Stalin and Hitler showed us how to save capitalism. Otherwise it just wouldn't work well at all, der. I hope my wife and kids will be proud of the world I'm helping to build; nothing but poor people with a few rich dicatators. Yeahhh, that's how you save capitalism. Der durpa derpy derp.
 
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DucatiMonster696

Diamond Member
Aug 13, 2009
4,269
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No one with an once of common sense is going to listen to a jackass whose tendencies demonstrate a clear personal political bias. Its why a shit ton of people don't listen to you even on Reddit and you get regularly down voted outside of the echo chamber of your own head.
 

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,993
743
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No one with an once of common sense is going to listen to a jackass whose tendencies demonstrate a clear personal political bias. Its why a shit ton of people don't listen to you even on Reddit and you get regularly down voted outside of the echo chamber of your own head.
That's really fucking strange how my link and comment karma are at odds with what you posted:



Also, LOL at the bolded part, coming from you. Yet again, reality seems to have a liberal bias. Talk about self ownage.
 

MovingTarget

Diamond Member
Jun 22, 2003
8,990
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I agree with all of it, but there is no reason to expect otherwise... the GOP has always been Keynesian to its core since 1854. The "job creators" crap is actually a Keynesian fallacy, because they're assuming the tax cuts would be spent by "job creators" on labor (employment) and to "grow the economy", rather than saved ("hoarded" as Keynesians would say) and a necessary recession, respectively. We need GDP to go down, because it has gotten way too high (mainly due to high govt spending and all of the expensive shitty stuff produced).
The GOP may have Keynesian elements to it, but it most certainly is not Keynesian to its core. They are a hodgepodge of economic thought from the Chicago school, the Austrian school, Keynesians, and Laissez-Faire capitalists. They advocate a low-tax, low-service governmental role in the economy. The Democrats are far more Keynesian than the Republicans as they advocate raising taxes in good times, having a more progressive income and estate tax, excess deficit spending in bad times, and targetting stimulus spending (not tax cuts) to areas with higher economic multipliers. They do not subscribe to the "job creator" fallacy that you claim they do. In fact, its quite the opposite. That was a right-wing construction by supply-siders.
 

MovingTarget

Diamond Member
Jun 22, 2003
8,990
84
91
Eh, both parties are equally bad.
No. They are not. It may have been true about ten or fifteen years ago, but with the rise of the radical right, the GOP has gone off the deep end. I used to be Republican, but the party has moved so far to the right that I can now excuse the Democrats' political trespasses if I must make a comparison.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
25,389
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The GOP may have Keynesian elements to it, but it most certainly is not Keynesian to its core. They are a hodgepodge of economic thought from the Chicago school, the Austrian school, Keynesians, and Laissez-Faire capitalists. They advocate a low-tax, low-service governmental role in the economy. The Democrats are far more Keynesian than the Republicans as they advocate raising taxes in good times, having a more progressive income and estate tax, excess deficit spending in bad times, and targetting stimulus spending (not tax cuts) to areas with higher economic multipliers. They do not subscribe to the "job creator" fallacy that you claim they do. In fact, its quite the opposite. That was a right-wing construction by supply-siders.
Are they a hodgepodge within the same person?
 

OneOfTheseDays

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2000
7,052
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Both parties are nowhere near as bad in today's political environment.

As far as most sane Americans are concerned the GOP has completely fallen off the cliff. This is the reason why they will not win another national election for a LONG time. There is a major realignment coming to that party, and the extremists that are controlling the discussion now will find themselves completely marginalized. A fracture is coming and it is necessary for the GOP to ever survive.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,991
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I somewhat agree with the thesis that there is not any possible political reality at this given time in the USA, as political reality has been replaced with only fantasy.

Vote for the fantasy of your choice, mindful of two things. The political reality consequnces of bad public policies will still be the true arbitartor of bad policies, and the fact that a house and a nation divided against itself cannot stand.

As it certainly not the best of times for the USA, and only the worst of times to paraphrase Charles Dickens in the tale of two cities.
 

Anarchist420

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Feb 13, 2010
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They do not subscribe to the "job creator" fallacy that you claim they do. In fact, its quite the opposite. That was a right-wing construction by supply-siders.
I know it was a Republican construction.:) I also know that the Democrats don't subscribe to it and neither do I because Austrians are not supply siders. Austrians don't believe the primary reason taxes should be cut is for stimulation of the economy, while Supply siders do. Austrians believe that recessions are necessary and benevolent, while supply siders do not because the latter care about increasing GDP.
They advocate a low-tax, low-service governmental role in the economy.
No they don't. They never offered Obama a bill to further reduce the payroll tax which would've been a much larger tax cut than what Romney is proposing. Democrats Clinton and Carter spent much less than their Republican successors. The Republicans also favor heavy militarism which is a service (even though it's useless) and they favor it in part because it creates jobs. Republican Allen's campaign (in a commercial) attacked his Democrat opponent for supporting military budget cuts and the Allen campaign's reason for attacking Kaine about that was because of the job loss it would cause... which means that the Republicans care more about creating/saving jobs than they do about the national debt.
They are a hodgepodge of economic thought from the Chicago school, the Austrian school, Keynesians, and Laissez-Faire capitalists.
Chicago school is Keynesian because they're monetarists which mean they believe the money supply is best centrally managed. Also, anyone who supports warfare and voted for a totally unbalanced budget is not a "leave the market alone" person, which means the Republicans are excluded from being pro-market. So my point still stands that Republicans are Keynesian to the core because they don't realize that recessions are good... rather, they want to increase "economic growth" by cutting taxes; they don't mind if the govt gets a lot of revenue and they sometimes (maybe usually) view more than expected tax revenue as beneficial.
 

blankslate

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2008
8,471
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So Paul Ryan is ok with spending as long as it's side who does it.

Sort of how his idol Ayn Rand railed against social security then applied for it later in life.

both are hypocritical asses.
 

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