• Guest, The rules for the P & N subforum have been updated to prohibit "ad hominem" or personal attacks against other posters. See the full details in the post "Politics and News Rules & Guidelines."

Paul Ryan: Perceptions after the debate?

Page 3 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
26,148
6,187
136
You really don't know what they do in the Congress, do you?

Biden played a familiar trick, use a part of the job that has to be done against someone that wants to reform it.

It won't register to those who don't know how often this happens, but to only have two such requests go out from Ryan's office is astonishingly low.
1) Claim stimulus won't help growth and jobs
2) Beg for piece of stimulus because "it will create growth and jobs"
3) Deny step 2
4) ???
5) Profit?
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
26,148
6,187
136
What about this exchange?

RYAN: R.C. East -- R.C. East...
BIDEN: R.C. East is the most dangerous place in the world.
RYAN: That’s right. That’s why we don’t want to send fewer people to the...
BIDEN: That’s -- that’s why we should send Americans in to do the job, instead of the -- you’d rather Americans be going in doing the job instead of the trainees?
RYAN: No. We are already sending Americans to do the job, but fewer of them. That’s the whole problem.
BIDEN: That’s right. We’re sending in more Afghans to do the job, Afghans to do the job.
Or this one:

BIDEN: Months and months. They found no evidence of cronyism.
And I love my friend here. I — I’m not allowed to show letters but go on our website, he sent me two letters saying, “By the way, can you send me some stimulus money for companies here in the state of Wisconsin?” We sent millions of dollars. You know…
(CROSSTALK)
RADDATZ: You did ask for stimulus money, correct?
BIDEN: Sure he did. By the way…
RYAN: On two occasions we — we — we advocated for constituents who were applying for grants. That’s what we do. We do that for all constituents who are…
(CROSSTALK)
BIDEN: I love that. I love that. This was such a bad program and he writes me a letter saying — writes the Department of Energy a letter saying, “The reason we need this stimulus, it will create growth and jobs.” His words. And now he’s sitting here looking at me.
And by the way, that program, again, investigated. What the Congress said was it was a model. Less than four-tenths of 1 percent waste or fraud in the program.
And all this talk about cronyism. They investigated and investigated, did not find one single piece of evidence. I wish he would just tell — be a little more candid.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
66,633
3,433
126
Republicans, because they are so laughable, have to make it appear that laughing at them is rude. But like everything else about them, it's laughable as was Ryan.

Ryan has abandoned his conservative principles to back up unprincipled Mitt. Nothing but another altered reality twice over team player who will demonize his fellow Americans to win the election. If you happen to step on him, wipe your shoes.
 

Oyeve

Lifer
Oct 18, 1999
21,039
355
126
Shit, i wish biden was running. maybe obama gets knocked off soon and biden becomes da man.
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,388
1,013
126
Ryan seemed to lack answers and avoid questions at times, but not to the level of Sarah Palin clueless. He sounded reasonable and knowledgeable enough to be a plausible VP, even if not convincing enough to make lots of undecideds do so.

Biden had generally better answers, but seemed rude and condescending to the point that folks might not care. Even if you're right on the facts, people tend to be turned off by people who act like assholez.
 

buckshot24

Diamond Member
Nov 3, 2009
9,916
85
91
Uh huh. And this contrasts against the sudden bump in enthusiasm for Romney after he did the exact same thing last week, right?

You really should at least make some sort of an effort to be objective if you're going to accuse others of being "partisans".
You're full of shit.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,991
2
0
Ryan seemed to lack answers and avoid questions at times, but not to the level of Sarah Palin clueless. He sounded reasonable and knowledgeable enough to be a plausible VP, even if not convincing enough to make lots of undecideds do so.

Biden had generally better answers, but seemed rude and condescending to the point that folks might not care. Even if you're right on the facts, people tend to be turned off by people who act like assholez.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
glenn1 has so nailed it here, we so want to believe in con men and women, like Kenny boy Lay, Jack Abrimoff, and Bernie Madoff. After all, they are SO POLITE, AND SO SUCCESSFUL, it becomes American hard to believe other such rude ahole's who rudely cry from the wilderness and scream bullshit.

We the American people love our con men and women who are so charming. And hate to see critics who question if our con men wear any clothes.

Be it resolved, we in America love to be conned.

And did I forget to mention that Biden was wrong, we have tried Ryan Romney policies before in that blast from the past when President Hoover was the US President. As we can revisit revisionist history to see how well it worked for President Hoover. We can have a man like Hoover back again by voting for the Romney Ryan ticket.
 
Last edited:

Thump553

Lifer
Jun 2, 2000
11,785
1,091
126
Ryan is very experienced in explaining complexity under the fire of interrupting and overtalking Democrats who can't handle the truth.

(blather redacted)
If he is SO good then why hasn't he even once given any sort of explanation how the 20% tax cut will be funded-without ballooning the deficit or screwing the rest of us? He cewrtainly has be invited-even begged to do so many, many times-even by Fox News.

Ryan was completely abandoned any principles he may have and is acting as just another political hack.
 

tcG

Golden Member
Jul 31, 2006
1,202
18
81
I can confirm that I just had some loose-leaf sencha (classic Japanese green tea) and it was delicious.
 

Charles Kozierok

Elite Member
May 14, 2012
6,762
0
0
You're full of shit.
How so?

Romney stood up there last week, lied his ass off, and aggressively attacked Obama. And suddenly, all the right-wingers got excited about him, and he went up a few points in the polls.

That energy is exactly what Biden was trying to encourage. It's the same thing.
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
61,515
13,519
136
Ryan? He took his beating like a man. It's one he deserved.

His fanbois? We're currently experiencing a shortage of Wahmbulances because of very high demand... They can dish it out, but they sure as Hell can't take it...
 

PJABBER

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2001
4,824
0
0
If he is SO good then why hasn't he even once given any sort of explanation how the 20% tax cut will be funded-without ballooning the deficit or screwing the rest of us? He cewrtainly has be invited-even begged to do so many, many times-even by Fox News.

Ryan was completely abandoned any principles he may have and is acting as just another political hack.
Ryan is a Congress critter. You know that.

Congress critters do not claim that they can do such things just with executive power. Well, the Demoncrats do, but they violate the law if and when they do.

Wiki actually has a good article here -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_federal_budget

The President will submit a budget but it is the responsibility of the Congress to authorize and appropriate funds, so the real power is with Congress.

Ryan knows that his proposals will have to be debated and agreed to by the Congress and though the power and influence of the Executive is there, it will take a great amount of compromise to have it come to pass. Why say it will come out only one way, when there are likely hundreds of ways it may come to pass?

Think about it, no Democrat has voted for Obama's budgets because they are pure fantasy, useful only for talking points in debates and political speeches. But the Demoncrats have selectively passed extraordinarily expensive legislation despite that.

The Congress critters do a tremendous amount of horse trading to come up with funding, and the obstinacy of Reid in refusing to bring any House Republican passed budget to a vote has effectively ended any possibility of compromise. Hence the need for a Republican Congress, as well as Romney and Ryan in executive office, to get what needs to be done passed.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,520
0
0
I thought Ryan's overall attitude and general demeanor was good. He came across as a professional and a nice guy at the very least, especially in contrast to Biden's approach. I don't think the debaters have to pretend to be robots, and even a grin at something an opponent said can help convey the impression you think it was stupid...but Biden did WAY too much of it. On the other hand, Ryan didn't look super at-ease with what he was doing, while Biden looked like he definitely felt he had a handle on the debate (again, he probably took this too far).

But on the facts? RYAN is one of the up and coming intellectual lights of the Republican party? Are you kidding me? I expected him to sound out of his depth on foreign policy discussions, especially compared to Biden, and he did. But for someone widely talked about as being a policy wonk, he didn't really bring any new arguments or (importantly) understanding to the table. The whole mystery tax plan exchange was pretty rough, and for all the grounds he could attack the unemployment numbers on, he chose an anecdotal stat for a single city that Biden immediately pointed out didn't match the national trend. There wasn't a single exchange in the debate where I heard Ryan's argument and thought, "well, I disagree, but he makes a pretty good case". There are plenty of conservatives I disagree with who's positions I respect, but Ryan is clearly not destined to be one of them.

Honestly though, the biggest thing for me was the religion question at the end...one I thought both men answered much better than the stupid phrasing of the question deserved. Biden said he was personally Catholic but didn't think it was his place to impose his beliefs on the country. Ryan said he too is Catholic, and he felt it was impossible NOT to govern without his religious beliefs dictating his political efforts. The fact that the topic was abortion seems to be less important than the idea that Biden clearly demonstrates an understanding of the idea of personal religious beliefs being just that, while Ryan just as clearly does not. Not a surprising answer from either of them, but it really should be a wake-up call if you don't share Ryan's religious views or think the government isn't there to make us all live by a particular set of religious beliefs. I don't think Ryan is a bad guy because of his answer, which at the very least seemed sincere and honest. But man do I not want him anywhere near the Oval Office...I'd rather he wasn't even in Congress.
 
Last edited:

Agent11

Diamond Member
Jan 22, 2006
3,535
1
0
Honestly though, the biggest thing for me was the religion question at the end...one I thought both men answered much better than the stupid phrasing of the question deserved. Biden said he was personally Catholic but didn't think it was his place to impose his beliefs on the country. Ryan said he too is Catholic, and he felt it was impossible NOT to govern without his religious beliefs dictating his political efforts. The fact that the topic was abortion seems to be less important than the idea that Biden clearly demonstrates an understanding of the idea of personal religious beliefs being just that, while Ryan just as clearly does not. Not a surprising answer from either of them, but it really should be a wake-up call if you don't share Ryan's religious views or think the government isn't there to make us all live by a particular set of religious beliefs. I don't think Ryan is a bad guy because of his answer, which at the very least seemed sincere and honest. But man do I not want him anywhere near the Oval Office...I'd rather he wasn't even in Congress.
Exactly.
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
61,515
13,519
136
Ryan is a Congress critter. You know that.

Congress critters do not claim that they can do such things just with executive power. Well, the Demoncrats do, but they violate the law if and when they do.

Wiki actually has a good article here -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_federal_budget

The President will submit a budget but it is the responsibility of the Congress to authorize and appropriate funds, so the real power is with Congress.

Ryan knows that his proposals will have to be debated and agreed to by the Congress and though the power and influence of the Executive is there, it will take a great amount of compromise to have it come to pass. Why say it will come out only one way, when there are likely hundreds of ways it may come to pass?

Think about it, no Democrat has voted for Obama's budgets because they are pure fantasy, useful only for talking points in debates and political speeches. But the Demoncrats have selectively passed extraordinarily expensive legislation despite that.

The Congress critters do a tremendous amount of horse trading to come up with funding, and the obstinacy of Reid in refusing to bring any House Republican passed budget to a vote has effectively ended any possibility of compromise. Hence the need for a Republican Congress, as well as Romney and Ryan in executive office, to get what needs to be done passed.
Gawd. I remember what we got with a Repub congress & executive branch- 2 wars, The Patriot Act, non-intervention in an out of control financial sector, tax cuts overwhelmingly favoring the Rich, & a doubling of the national debt... not to mention appeasement/ legitimization of Kaddafi in exchange for dismantling his so called nuclear program, the dishonest Roadmap to Peace & increased tensions with Russia over Porkulus missile defense systems...

Righties love to pretend that the Bush years never happened, and that their current proposals aren't just more of the same, harder & deeper for the vast majority of Americans.

Why the Hell would Reid offer up any Repub HOR budget for a vote when it's doomed to fail & will only provide Repubs with grandstanding opportunities?
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,344
3,013
126
Lets cut out all the garbage and all the Fundamentalist Christian right wingers who are crying foul right now.....

Ryan was no sarah palin and Biden acted accordingly!!

As we say in the gaming world -- Biden Powned Ryan!!
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY