Paul Krugman does not like the new Obama asset plan

[Vic]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: eskimospy
What I find funny is that if Obama did what Krugman wants him to do, this board would be exploding with right wingers shrieking about socialism and nationalization. Methinks some people are just looking for reasons to cry no matter what.

What I find even more funny is that you're more concerned with what "right wingers" might be doing rather than the criticisms of the plan, which is basically the same plan the Bush admin had.

from my link:

So why isn't the Obama administration pushing for FDIC receivership? "Political influence of big banks," the economist says.

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

There are lots of reasons why Obama isn't nationalizing the banks, and yes I imagine a bunch of them are political ones. I happen to agree with Krugman, I think we should be spending more on stimulus and we should be forcibly cleaning up these fucked up institutions. It doesn't mean that I don't find the criticisms coming from PJ and others incredibly dishonest though.

Are you telling me that you want Obama to do this? That you wouldn't screech "SOCIALISM" if he did it?

But Obama is teh socialist!!

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: eskimospy
What I find funny is that if Obama did what Krugman wants him to do, this board would be exploding with right wingers shrieking about socialism and nationalization. Methinks some people are just looking for reasons to cry no matter what.

What I find even more funny is that you're more concerned with what "right wingers" might be doing rather than the criticisms of the plan, which is basically the same plan the Bush admin had.

from my link:

So why isn't the Obama administration pushing for FDIC receivership? "Political influence of big banks," the economist says.

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

There are lots of reasons why Obama isn't nationalizing the banks, and yes I imagine a bunch of them are political ones. I happen to agree with Krugman, I think we should be spending more on stimulus and we should be forcibly cleaning up these fucked up institutions. It doesn't mean that I don't find the criticisms coming from PJ and others incredibly dishonest though.

Are you telling me that you want Obama to do this? That you wouldn't screech "SOCIALISM" if he did it?

But Obama is teh socialist!!

NO BACKTRACKING! He's teh commanist!!!11

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: TheRedUnderURBed

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Could you please remind me what 'good' music came from that era??

Look at who won Grammy's for best new artist during his term: Debby Boone, A Taste of Honey, Rickie Lee Jones and Christopher Cross
All of whom were pretty much flash in the pan success stories.

You have to remember that Carter was president during the end of the disco era. Not exactly a time known for great music.
77-80 was probably some of the best music ever imo, you just obviously lack taste to bring that bubble gum pop and disco stuff up.

The Clash, Ramones, Crass, Sex Pistols (or even better PiL), The Police did some of their best stuff, Pink Floyd was pretty good then. I will not continue as you probably have no clue about these bands except for one or two.
Some of the experimental/underground stuff was brilliant (Throbbing Gristle, Television)

This was the era of the death of bad corporate US rock and the rise of CBGBs and the NYC scene. Lets not even get into stuff going on in Germany like Einstuerzende Neubaten (and early Nick Cave) or Nina Hagen. You have no clue.
Music nowadays is pretty much rehashed 80s, which was watered-down late 70s.

Sorry you missed out, it was a GREAT time back then -and disco STILL sucks.

This band sucked?
/music rant off

Edit: Since this is a politics forum I tried to keep the list somewhat political type bands back then that rocked. Oh yeah, and RIP Joe Strummer!

Ok, I'll give The Clash and the Police and some of the other 'new wave' bands.

I never got into punk, so I can't comment there.

We should also mention Kraftwerks without whom the entire 80s music scene might have never happened.

But most of these bands were just getting started in the late 70s or working away in obscurity. The popular music of the time pretty much sucked, with a few exceptions.

Compare the Carter era to the Nixon era which had some amazing music. The whole late 60s psychedelic era, the start of Zepplin and Pink Floyd etc etc.

BTW 1967 has to be the greatest year in music history.
The Doors, Buffalo Springfield, The Grateful Dead, Van Morrison, David Bowie and The Velvet Underground all released debut albums that years.
Then you have Sgt Pepper, Are you Experienced, Magical Mystery Tour, I Never Loved a Man the Way I Love You - Aretha Franklin (contains the song Respect) Happy Together by the Turtles etc etc etc
Just an amazing year in music history.

Hell... look at the people BORN in 1967: Dave Mathews, Kurt Cobain, Bill Corgan, Faith Hill and Harry Connick Jr.

 

[Craig234]

On music, don't forget one of the greatest albums ever made, The Wall , Who Are You, and Led Zeppelin's Presence Album, for a few. That's why I bookend great music 1966-1980.

The list could go on with many other great rock bands during that period - off the top of my head, Fleetwood Mac, Alan Parsons Project, ELO, Queen's "A Night at The Opera"...

 

[ProfJohn]

Craig... almost all of those groups were British. America music at that time was dominated by disco.

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn


Compare the Carter era to the Nixon era which had some amazing music. The whole late 60s psychedelic era, the start of Zepplin and Pink Floyd etc etc.

I am not going to debate if the late 60 or 70s were better, I have much respect for 60s bands, but prefer later 70s-80s. But to say the late 70s sucked musically is very wrong.

And the US was NOT just disco. This is like saying everyone now listens to emo/hip hop stuff, sure some do, but the music will not last. Nor does it have the dedicated fans that will be fans still when they are older like us discussing it now. (Hell, young people with good taste still prefer 60-70-80s nowadays to contemporary pop)

Kraftwerk is a good call, although I think the likes of Clock DVA, Legendary Pink Dots, Throbbing Gristle, Einsturzende Neubaten, Gary Neuman, Fad Gadget had a bit more influence on electronic stuff of the 80s. KW is cool, but kinda overrated.

Hell, "Can" from back in the 60s are probably the forefathers of electronic music back when they had to BUILD their own synth from scratch.

Don't forget the grandaddy of effects and electronic music also, King Tubby.
But that was Jamaican Dub, not really rock music, but still hugely influential and I still hear his beats in modern music. Most people do not realize if it were not for Dub Reggae we would have no punk and thus no 80s post punk stuff that almost everything is now.

"He is often cited as the inventor of the concept of the remix, and so may be seen as a direct antecedent of much dance and electronic music production."

-Yes, I am a Sound Engineer and do Production so I am a total junkie for this rock history stuff...I will stop now as this is far offtopic =P

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Craig... almost all of those groups were British. America music at that time was dominated by disco.

So? But even more boggling is that your own post listed many British bands, even if you had some misguided idea only American bands are relevant? Do you just like to disagree?

But your post did remind me of another great album of 1980, John Lennon's Double Fantasy.

As for 'dominated by Disco', that doesn't change the fact the culture for good music was strong too. Remember, The Monkees outsold The Beatles at the time.

America had some aesthetic meltdown in the 70's, from the wide ties, polyester suits, long sideburns and disco to other things. But that was only part of the culture.

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Craig... almost all of those groups were British. America music at that time was dominated by disco.

There is no such thing as musical nationalism, music is a global thing done by humans for humans to listen to everywhere, everyone is influenced by someone before them somewhere else. except maybe nazi skinhead bands, or disco -which is worse then any torture cheney could come up with :evil:

 

[ProfJohn]

Red, I certainly agree with you on how interesting the history of music is and how each group or movement evolved into the next movement.

I think the Kraftwerks quote about being inspired by the Beach Boys has to be one of the most interesting in music history.

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Red, I certainly agree with you on how interesting the history of music is and how each group or movement evolved into the next movement.

I think the Kraftwerks quote about being inspired by the Beach Boys has to be one of the most interesting in music history.

Funny how music is the true great uniter of all peoples.

 

[cubby1223]

Educated people from the left don't like Obama's plans, the right has never liked Obama. Polls show he is losing support from independents.

Gee, maybe it's a damn wakeup call to the rest of America...

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: cubby1223
Educated people from the left don't like Obama's plans, the right has never liked Obama. Polls show he is losing support from independents.

Gee, maybe it's a damn wakeup call to the rest of America...

Obama losing support among independents? You should go let Gallup know, as they seem to disagree

Obama's approval ratings among independents and Democrats remain high, and have not changed significantly.

 

[heyheybooboo]

Krugman has a point in that we are treating the symptoms without curing the disease. If folks raise this much ruckus over this dose of medicine imagine what it will be like when the new, improved banking and financial regulations come up in Congress.

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Craig... almost all of those groups were British. America music at that time was dominated by disco.

Allman Bros, Jimmy Buffet, Eagles: The Long Run, George Thorogood & The Delewhere Destroyahs, Talking Heads, Jackson Browne, The Knack, Grateful Dead: Terrapin Station, Lynyrd Skynyrd: Street Survivors, Root Boy Slim and the Sex Change Band (with the Rootettes), Tom Petty: Damn the Torpedoes, The Boss: Darkness on the Edge of Town, Joe Walsh: But Seriously, Folks, The Cars (Ric Ocasek TURNED 60 yesterday), Ramones, Van Halen, Neil Young: Rust Never Sleeps, Zappa in New York & Sheik Yerbouti, Little Feat: Down on the Farm, The B-52's .... and that's just a quick flip through the ol' album stack.

And I didn't need Elvis or London Calling.