Patriot Act shot down

[slash196]

Even though this was just a cloture vote, I doubt that it will get renewed, what with Bush's latest folly (ie the NSA scandal).

 

[imported_Condor]

Glad I no longer live in any of the great cities of America.

 

[raildogg]

If there are any terrorist attacks, the right wingers and other supporters of the Patriot Act can blame you so-called leftists and others for it now. Go team.

 

[Brainonska511]

Originally posted by: ITJunkie

Originally posted by: Elderly Newt
:thumbsup:

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: LokeanSon
I'm going to have a tough weekend sleeping now. I feel much less secure.
:thumbsdown:

😛

Get some Depends and sleep in those and you won't have to worry if you crap in your pants.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Condor
Glad I no longer live in any of the great cities of America.

I'll probably regret this, but what does that have to do with the topic? Are the terrorists going to kill us all if the Patriot Act expires?

 

[Brainonska511]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Condor
Glad I no longer live in any of the great cities of America.

I'll probably regret this, but what does that have to do with the topic? Are the terrorists going to kill us all if the Patriot Act expires?

Well, according to the administration: Most Likely.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: raildogg
If there are any terrorist attacks, the right wingers and other supporters of the Patriot Act can blame you so-called leftists and others for it now. Go team.

I thought about that, but the Democrats have their chance to act on their principles. It's a risk of course (I know the Republicans would milk another attack for all it was worth), but if they don't do it, it would be worse. The big criticism of the left is that we never stand up for anything. Well, here's our chance.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: raildogg
If there are any terrorist attacks, the right wingers and other supporters of the Patriot Act can blame you so-called leftists and others for it now. Go team.

They can and tghey probably wikll but if recent history has taught us anything about thjis current administration we'd know it was BS and it's just this current Administration playing the same card of passing the buck that they've been playing for the last 5 years.

 

[arsbanned]

Originally posted by: raildogg
If there are any terrorist attacks, the right wingers and other supporters of the Patriot Act can blame you so-called leftists and others for it now. Go team.

The right -winger weighs in, hoping for a terror attack on America so that our rights and freedoms can be permanently taken away. :disgust: :thumbsdown:
If it does happen, it wouldn't surprise me if it was engineered by the administration.

 

[shira]

I have a prediction:

Regardless of the status of the Patriot Act, current domestic anti-terrorism policies will proceed unchanged.

Remember, this is the Administration that claims that, in time of war, the President is beyond the control of Congress and the courts. Under this theory, the President has the power to authorize almost any government action - in the name of fighting our enemies. The recent disclosure about the NSA's spying on American citizens - authorized by a Presidential order and backed by the Justice department - was yet another example of the almost unlimited power that neocons attribute to the Executive in a time of war. Those Justice department memos disclosed last year - claiming that the President has the authority to allow torture of prisoners during interrogations and to override virutally ANY domestic law or international treaty - shows just how far this cabal is willing to go.

So don't be surprised if we find out that the Patriot act is viewed by this Adminstration as merely "cover" for actions that are already a foregone conclusion. Actions that will continue regardless of the status of the Patriot Act.

Really scary.

Edit: An even scarier thought: If the Administration, backed by the Justice department, really holds the view of Executive power that I've described (and this was PRECISELY the justification given for authorizing domestic spying by the NSA), then do you think McCain's anti-torture bill is going to prevent this Adminstration from continuing its "black sites" and its current interrogation techniques?

I think it would be useful to bring Roberto Gonzalez in front of the Senate and ask him point blank: Does the Justice Department believe that ANY act of Congress can control Presidential action in time of war?

 

[GroundedSailor]

Originally posted by: shira
I have a prediction:

Regardless of the status of the Patriot Act, current domestic anti-terrorism policies will proceed unchanged.

Remember, this is the Administration that claims that, in time of war, the President is beyond the control of Congress and the courts. Under this theory, the President has the power to authorize almost any government action - in the name of fighting our enemies. The recent disclosure about the NSA's spying on American citizens - authorized by a Presidential order and backed by the Justice department - was yet another example of the almost unlimited power that neocons attribute to the Executive in a time of war. Those Justice department memos disclosed last year - claiming that the President has the authority to allow torture of prisoners during interrogations and to override virutally ANY domestic law or international treaty - shows just how far this cabal is willing to go.

So don't be surprised if we find out that the Patriot act is viewed by this Adminstration as merely "cover" for actions that are already a foregone conclusion. Actions that will continue regardless of the status of the Patriot Act.

Really scary.

They have been doing just that through the NSA as you posted.

What we are seeing is a classic case of 'Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.'

My concern for civil liberties under this administration began when Ashcroft suspended Habeas Corpus immediately after 9/11. (to quote from the link: The writ of habeas corpus serves as an important check on the manner in which state courts pay respect to federal constitutional rights. The writ is "the fundamental instrument for safeguarding individual freedom against arbitrary and lawless state action.") Fortunately congress restored it 14 days later.

Originally posted by: raildogg
If there are any terrorist attacks, the right wingers and other supporters of the Patriot Act can blame you so-called leftists and others for it now. Go team.

Ok, so the ONLY thing protecting us from terrorist attacks is the patriot act!!! If we wave a copy in front of the terrorists will they disappear? :laugh:

 

[NJDevil]

Originally posted by: raildogg
If there are any terrorist attacks, the right wingers and other supporters of the Patriot Act can blame you so-called leftists and others for it now. Go team.

Do you really think the Patriot Act is the only thing keeping the terrorists from striking? You're a smart guy, come on!

 

[M00T]

Bush wonders how he'll ever propose mandatory projection screens now.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Originally posted by: Condor
Glad I no longer live in any of the great cities of America.

I just can't imagine what it's like to live in such a constant state of fear
Giving up liberty to keep the terrorists at bay
Having to sleep with a gun under your pillow to keep the roving bands of armed burglars away
No wonder America keeps dropping down the lists of great places to live

 

[Reckoner]

I think the thing that really killed the bill was the fact that Bush has authorized a secret surveillance program on Americans. I can't believe anyone voted for this guy.

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: Harvey
:thumbsup: 😎

 

[halik]

These legislatures are the only true threat on "our way of life".

Violent acts of few misguided religious zealots can not destory the ideals this country was founded on. Flying a plane into our building might kill americans, but can never kill the core american principles. That can only be done from within.

 

[Helenihi]

Originally posted by: GroundedSailor

Originally posted by: shira
I have a prediction:

Regardless of the status of the Patriot Act, current domestic anti-terrorism policies will proceed unchanged.

Remember, this is the Administration that claims that, in time of war, the President is beyond the control of Congress and the courts. Under this theory, the President has the power to authorize almost any government action - in the name of fighting our enemies. The recent disclosure about the NSA's spying on American citizens - authorized by a Presidential order and backed by the Justice department - was yet another example of the almost unlimited power that neocons attribute to the Executive in a time of war. Those Justice department memos disclosed last year - claiming that the President has the authority to allow torture of prisoners during interrogations and to override virutally ANY domestic law or international treaty - shows just how far this cabal is willing to go.

So don't be surprised if we find out that the Patriot act is viewed by this Adminstration as merely "cover" for actions that are already a foregone conclusion. Actions that will continue regardless of the status of the Patriot Act.

Really scary.

They have been doing just that through the NSA as you posted.

What we are seeing is a classic case of 'Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.'

My concern for civil liberties under this administration began when Ashcroft suspended Habeas Corpus immediately after 9/11. (to quote from the link: The writ of habeas corpus serves as an important check on the manner in which state courts pay respect to federal constitutional rights. The writ is "the fundamental instrument for safeguarding individual freedom against arbitrary and lawless state action.") Fortunately congress restored it 14 days later.

Originally posted by: raildogg
If there are any terrorist attacks, the right wingers and other supporters of the Patriot Act can blame you so-called leftists and others for it now. Go team.

Ok, so the ONLY thing protecting us from terrorist attacks is the patriot act!!! If we wave a copy in front of the terrorists will they disappear? :laugh:

What the hell are you talking about? Ashcroft never suspended Habeus Corpus.

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: raildogg
If there are any terrorist attacks, the right wingers and other supporters of the Patriot Act can blame you so-called leftists and others for it now. Go team.

Since they mostly target Blue states, works for me! They can have their privacy right up to the moment the bomb goes off.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Condor

Originally posted by: raildogg
If there are any terrorist attacks, the right wingers and other supporters of the Patriot Act can blame you so-called leftists and others for it now. Go team.

Since they mostly target Blue states, works for me! They can have their privacy right up to the moment the bomb goes off.

There is something wrong with you...

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Condor

Originally posted by: raildogg
If there are any terrorist attacks, the right wingers and other supporters of the Patriot Act can blame you so-called leftists and others for it now. Go team.

Since they mostly target Blue states, works for me! They can have their privacy right up to the moment the bomb goes off.

There is something wrong with you...

i think everyone has known that for a while

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: shira
I have a prediction:

Regardless of the status of the Patriot Act, current domestic anti-terrorism policies will proceed unchanged.

Remember, this is the Administration that claims that, in time of war, the President is beyond the control of Congress and the courts. Under this theory, the President has the power to authorize almost any government action - in the name of fighting our enemies. The recent disclosure about the NSA's spying on American citizens - authorized by a Presidential order and backed by the Justice department - was yet another example of the almost unlimited power that neocons attribute to the Executive in a time of war. Those Justice department memos disclosed last year - claiming that the President has the authority to allow torture of prisoners during interrogations and to override virutally ANY domestic law or international treaty - shows just how far this cabal is willing to go.

So don't be surprised if we find out that the Patriot act is viewed by this Adminstration as merely "cover" for actions that are already a foregone conclusion. Actions that will continue regardless of the status of the Patriot Act.

Really scary.

Edit: An even scarier thought: If the Administration, backed by the Justice department, really holds the view of Executive power that I've described (and this was PRECISELY the justification given for authorizing domestic spying by the NSA), then do you think McCain's anti-torture bill is going to prevent this Adminstration from continuing its "black sites" and its current interrogation techniques?

I think it would be useful to bring Roberto Gonzalez in front of the Senate and ask him point blank: Does the Justice Department believe that ANY act of Congress can control Presidential action in time of war?

Your hero led the way:

"Clinton's ambition to create laws without the traditional (constitutional) legislative entanglements should come as no surprise to anyone. During the 1992 Democratic National Convention he said, "President Bush: if you won't use your power to help people, step aside, I will." Consider the following report from the on-line text of Elizabeth Shogren's article, President plans blitz of executive orders: Clinton intent on pressing social reforms. "Frustrated by a GOP-controlled Congress that lately has rebuffed him on almost every front, President Clinton plans a blitz of executive orders during the next few weeks, part of a White House strategy to make progress on Clinton's domestic agenda with or without congressional help." -- Los Angeles Times, 7/4/98 "

Funny how you thought all that was just fine then.

Link: http://www.lawandliberty.org/above2.htm

http://stanley2002.org/federal.htm

http://www.carpentersapprentice.org/october04.htm (religious, but informative)

http://ericbarger.com/Martial_Law_part_1.htm

And this:

http://conservativeaction.org/news.php3?articledate=2001-02-13

President Bush and the new 107th Congress are faced with the difficult task of repairing the enormous damage of eight years of Clintonism. In particular, there are an unprecedented 364 Executive Orders signed into law by Bill Clinton that have violated the constitution and trampled on individual rights. CIC has drawn up a priority list of selected Clinton Executive Orders that must be revoked. These are posted on our home page at http://www.ConservativeAction.org . CIC members are urged to contact President Bush at (202) 456-1414, Fax (202) 456-2461, E-Mail: president@whitehouse.gov and tell him to revoke these E.O.s. CIC supporters should also contact their members of Congress at http://www.house.gov and http://www.senate.gov and tell them to support the Separation of Powers Restoration Act (formerly H.R. 2655) and the Executive Orders Limitation Act (formerly S. 1795), both of which will be re-introduced soon with new bill numbers. Congress must also investigate and expose the 80 secret ?Presidential Decision Directives? (PDDs) that Clinton imposed on the military and still remain classified.

I could post more, but you get the picture. Nothing new here except that the libs Godhead is not the one doing it.

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: Orignal Earl

Originally posted by: Condor
Glad I no longer live in any of the great cities of America.

I just can't imagine what it's like to live in such a constant state of fear
Giving up liberty to keep the terrorists at bay
Having to sleep with a gun under your pillow to keep the roving bands of armed burglars away
No wonder America keeps dropping down the lists of great places to live

Good try at psyco babble and you need a new hobby! I don't live in a state of fear, much the opposite. As mentioned, I moved from the crowded slums that make up our large cities. Now I live in an area of pastorial peace and relish it daily. How many times have you really been near where the news was actually happening? When your time comes, you will discover that it is really not worth the effort.

Oh, by the way, I'm not the one who fears the patriot act and NSA easedropping. That would be you!

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Condor

Originally posted by: shira
I have a prediction:

Regardless of the status of the Patriot Act, current domestic anti-terrorism policies will proceed unchanged.

Remember, this is the Administration that claims that, in time of war, the President is beyond the control of Congress and the courts. Under this theory, the President has the power to authorize almost any government action - in the name of fighting our enemies. The recent disclosure about the NSA's spying on American citizens - authorized by a Presidential order and backed by the Justice department - was yet another example of the almost unlimited power that neocons attribute to the Executive in a time of war. Those Justice department memos disclosed last year - claiming that the President has the authority to allow torture of prisoners during interrogations and to override virutally ANY domestic law or international treaty - shows just how far this cabal is willing to go.

So don't be surprised if we find out that the Patriot act is viewed by this Adminstration as merely "cover" for actions that are already a foregone conclusion. Actions that will continue regardless of the status of the Patriot Act.

Really scary.

Edit: An even scarier thought: If the Administration, backed by the Justice department, really holds the view of Executive power that I've described (and this was PRECISELY the justification given for authorizing domestic spying by the NSA), then do you think McCain's anti-torture bill is going to prevent this Adminstration from continuing its "black sites" and its current interrogation techniques?

I think it would be useful to bring Roberto Gonzalez in front of the Senate and ask him point blank: Does the Justice Department believe that ANY act of Congress can control Presidential action in time of war?

Your hero led the way:

"Clinton's ambition to create laws without the traditional (constitutional) legislative entanglements should come as no surprise to anyone. During the 1992 Democratic National Convention he said, "President Bush: if you won't use your power to help people, step aside, I will." Consider the following report from the on-line text of Elizabeth Shogren's article, President plans blitz of executive orders: Clinton intent on pressing social reforms. "Frustrated by a GOP-controlled Congress that lately has rebuffed him on almost every front, President Clinton plans a blitz of executive orders during the next few weeks, part of a White House strategy to make progress on Clinton's domestic agenda with or without congressional help." -- Los Angeles Times, 7/4/98 "

Funny how you thought all that was just fine then.

Link: http://www.lawandliberty.org/above2.htm

http://stanley2002.org/federal.htm

http://www.carpentersapprentice.org/october04.htm (religious, but informative)

http://ericbarger.com/Martial_Law_part_1.htm

And this:

http://conservativeaction.org/news.php3?articledate=2001-02-13

President Bush and the new 107th Congress are faced with the difficult task of repairing the enormous damage of eight years of Clintonism. In particular, there are an unprecedented 364 Executive Orders signed into law by Bill Clinton that have violated the constitution and trampled on individual rights. CIC has drawn up a priority list of selected Clinton Executive Orders that must be revoked. These are posted on our home page at http://www.ConservativeAction.org . CIC members are urged to contact President Bush at (202) 456-1414, Fax (202) 456-2461, E-Mail: president@whitehouse.gov and tell him to revoke these E.O.s. CIC supporters should also contact their members of Congress at http://www.house.gov and http://www.senate.gov and tell them to support the Separation of Powers Restoration Act (formerly H.R. 2655) and the Executive Orders Limitation Act (formerly S. 1795), both of which will be re-introduced soon with new bill numbers. Congress must also investigate and expose the 80 secret ?Presidential Decision Directives? (PDDs) that Clinton imposed on the military and still remain classified.

I could post more, but you get the picture. Nothing new here except that the libs Godhead is not the one doing it.

If it matters, I strongly oppose a lot of Clinton's policies on privacy as well. If nothing else, I lay blame him for the terrible idea that is the DMCA as much as I blame Bush for the Patriot Act. Civil liberties are not a political issue, it doesn't matter whether you are Republican, Democrat, or anything else. When it comes to civil liberty issues, keep your hands off!