patent idea.. can i patent things like this? Video Added! Secrets out! :)

[Sho'Nuff]

No, it gets you limited protection until the next step of the patent process. Basically, you're banking on the glacially slow process which should be good enough to make a buck in the short run. I mean, it's a work light. We're not talking about an iLight. Crap, I've said too much!

In my (educated) opinion, Dirigible is right that marking something "patent pending" does not provide any protection whatsoever.

If you disagree, find me a case in which a U.S. court has awarded damages for pre-patent royalties. I'll give you a hint - there isn't one because the circumstances that must be met for those damages to be awarded are extremely difficult to meet and/or prove.

 

[dullard]

I have an idea for a product I want to make, but I can only make it if it cannot be patented. I don't want to get sued, and I could not afford to patent every possible thing based on my idea, not to mention even think of them. Some of the weirdest things can be patented, like GUI elements on a computer. (Ex: slide to unlock). Who they hell thinks of patenting stuff like that? Patent trolls. So to be successful you pretty much think think of all these things and patent them before you make your product public.

A patent is an exchange. You teach the world how to make your product and in exchange you get to sue people who make it/sell it/use it for a defined period of time.

If the world already knows how to make it, then you can't do the first half of the exchange. Someone else did that. So to prevent all patents you just need to publicly teach the world how to make your product. A post here could do that. But the more public the better so don't limit your description to one place. No one would ever be able to patent that idea. Just be very clear, detailed, thorough, and cover likely changes.

Or the new patent laws let you defend yourself if you can show prior use. If you have evidence that you sold the product before he patented it, then you'd win in court if they sued you. You might be out millions in lawyer fees, but you'd win.

 

[Sho'Nuff]

He will need the patent really soon when they switch to first [inventor] to file on 03/16/13.

FTFY

 

[Sho'Nuff]

OP, for your use, you don't really need a patent. You just apply for one so, you can use "Pat. Pending" for your short term protection.

This is not necessarily true. There are numerous small and cheap items that have been patented to great commercial effect.

E.g., - Gillette razor blades, post-it adhesive, gore-tex, various polymeric fibers, etc.

 

[Sho'Nuff]

I have an idea for a product I want to make, but I can only make it if it cannot be patented. I don't want to get sued, and I could not afford to patent every possible thing based on my idea, not to mention even think of them. Some of the weirdest things can be patented, like GUI elements on a computer. (Ex: slide to unlock). Who they hell thinks of patenting stuff like that? Patent trolls. So to be successful you pretty much think think of all these things and patent them before you make your product public.

There is so much that is incorrect about this portion of your post that it is hard to know where to start.

Couple points:

1. Business produce new products all the time without patenting them. A patent is a tool to help obtain exclusivity in a market. It is not a requirement. Even the best patents can usually be designed around.

2. The threat of a patent suit is a cost of doing business. If something is worth doing commercially, do it. Just protect yourself by performing the action as a qualified business entity.

3. Even if you are threatened with an infringement suit, that does not mean you have to stop your business. There are numerous other options available.

 

[Sho'Nuff]

If it's a popular diy project, then patenting it would be a waste of money. There's nothing you're going to be able to do to stop people from making it for themselves or making it for small markets.

He didn't say that it was a popular DIY project, just that it could be.

Most people who patent do so because they want to commercialize a product. They are not concerned about DIY'ers, because those folks are a very small percentage of the market. They are concerned about stopping other commercial manufacturers from making the product and selling it stores without a license.

 

[wirednuts]

honestly by those descriptions, i should be able to patent this. it does use basic well known parts, but its not obvious to use them in this matter at all. and like i said, its a very simple idea, and it only takes 4 holes to be drilled. it goes together so well you would think these parts ARE made to do this, but they clearly are for plumbing and heating- not a flashlight.

i dont know. i think the idea of me, being broke and jobless, trying to get a patent right now is a little silly. i think ill just post it here and you guys tell me what you think. itll be another week before i can give it to dad for real world mechanic testing...

 

[dullard]

FTFY

Aren't you swamped this month? How do you have time to post? My patent attorney is having us file everything imaginable prior to that date.

 

[Sho'Nuff]

i should probably just start making and selling them locally. screw the patent, because if these were ever to be made for mass market they wouldnt be the same quality anyway... which would defeat the purpose of its existence because there are tons of decent work lights on the market. i can promise you guys though, there is nothing this strong. i designed it to work all day under cars for greasy mechanics that drop their lights on an hourly basis...

If you want to retain any hope of patenting your light than stop talking about it on a public forum.

FWIW, folks patent tools ALL the time. Even some types of fasteners are or have been patented.

 

[Sho'Nuff]

Aren't you swamped this month? How do you have time to post? My patent attorney is having us file everything imaginable prior to that date.

I have been swamped for the past two months. I have time to post because like a good patent attorney I worked myself to death for months so that I wouldn't be utterly crushed with only a week to go.

Also, filing before March 16 is not as important for some as it is for others.

 

[wirednuts]

If you want to retain any hope of patenting your light than stop talking about it on a public forum.

FWIW, folks patent tools ALL the time. Even some types of fasteners are or have been patented.

dammit. i was just going to put up pics of it. but now you have me thinking i really should try to patent this. maybe ill talk to dad first and see if he wants to fund the process... hes an inventor too, and he has patented things before.

 

[Red Squirrel]

A patent is an exchange. You teach the world how to make your product and in exchange you get to sue people who make it/sell it/use it for a defined period of time.

If the world already knows how to make it, then you can't do the first half of the exchange. Someone else did that. So to prevent all patents you just need to publicly teach the world how to make your product. A post here could do that. But the more public the better so don't limit your description to one place. No one would ever be able to patent that idea. Just be very clear, detailed, thorough, and cover likely changes.

Or the new patent laws let you defend yourself if you can show prior use. If you have evidence that you sold the product before he patented it, then you'd win in court if they sued you. You might be out millions in lawyer fees, but you'd win.

Wait, so if you make it public, nobody can patent it? That makes things much easier. That's probably the best bet for the OP. Basically make it open source, I guess?

There is so much that is incorrect about this portion of your post that it is hard to know where to start.

Couple points:

1. Business produce new products all the time without patenting them. A patent is a tool to help obtain exclusivity in a market. It is not a requirement. Even the best patents can usually be designed around.

2. The threat of a patent suit is a cost of doing business. If something is worth doing commercially, do it. Just protect yourself by performing the action as a qualified business entity.

3. Even if you are threatened with an infringement suit, that does not mean you have to stop your business. There are numerous other options available.

Yeah but if the cost of doing business is the risk of million or billion dollar lawsuits, that's not a risk to take lightly and yes you'd pretty much have to stop the business because you'd end up in jail for not being able to pay up. Thats why I say, you'd want to patent the product before you make it public, to mitigate that risk. Sure big companies can get away with taking the risk, but not a guy making things in his garage and trying to make a living selling a few here and there.

Though, if making it public prevents it from being patentable... that changes things. Is that really the case? I did not think that worked for patents, only copyright.

 

[wirednuts]

i think ill just post it. i have to worry about starting an actual business right now, and get a new apartment at the same time. i dont have time to do patents i cant afford anyway. plus, if any of you decide to patent my idea, ill use this thread to prove its mine! all mine! LOL jk

the chance of this causing anyone problems, like injury or fire, is next to zero. its too strong and its low voltage. that was part of the point- it doesnt get hot and it wont spark bad if the wires to get torn. it would be ideal for mechanic work. a safe, tough, bright light that never burns out and is not expensive.

 

[wirednuts]

Video added to op!

 

[Imported]

Aren't you swamped this month? How do you have time to post? My patent attorney is having us file everything imaginable prior to that date.

We're swamped where I work at. Late night filing parties and such. Atleast I'm getting free dinners.

 

[MisterJackson]

WTF is wrong with your video? Do you have tourettes as well as bad taste in music?

 

[wirednuts]

WTF is wrong with your video? Do you have tourettes as well as bad taste in music?

excuse me? that was the gods of metal you heard in the background, sir

 

[DrPizza]

WTF is wrong with your video? Do you have tourettes as well as bad taste in music?

I turned the sound off after about 15 seconds. Does he talk at all to explain it?

Incidentally, OP, something like that, I'd buy. Too many parts to quickly put it together; quite a shopping list. That's 15 minutes in Home Depot, plus shopping elsewhere for components. If it was patentable, you might have been able to have someone market it. I can't recall seeing a product like that which I can plug into a cigarette lighter in the car. Can't count the number of times I ran into a problem during daylight hours and finished working after dark with an extension cord and one of my wife's lamps from the living room. (Yes, I have a shop light; my kids frequently misplaced it. Now that they're gone, I could be blindfolded and walk right to it.)

 

[phucheneh]

How is that novel?

edit: also, there's a reason lights are usually light source + reflector/shield. All that light is gonna do is blind you and cast shadows in places you don't want.

 

[wirednuts]

I turned the sound off after about 15 seconds. Does he talk at all to explain it?

Incidentally, OP, something like that, I'd buy. Too many parts to quickly put it together; quite a shopping list. That's 15 minutes in Home Depot, plus shopping elsewhere for components. If it was patentable, you might have been able to have someone market it. I can't recall seeing a product like that which I can plug into a cigarette lighter in the car. Can't count the number of times I ran into a problem during daylight hours and finished working after dark with an extension cord and one of my wife's lamps from the living room. (Yes, I have a shop light; my kids frequently misplaced it. Now that they're gone, I could be blindfolded and walk right to it.)

no talking. i can make an instructional video, but i really dont want to

so basically, i need to buy a bulk set of power cable. something nice that will hold up to repeated use. that, and a big ol role of those led's you can cut them every few inches, so i just need to buy in bulk.

How is that novel?

edit: also, there's a reason lights are usually light source + reflector/shield. All that light is gonna do is blind you and cast shadows in places you don't want.

yeah, im looking for self-stick mylar. i figure that, then maybe a strip of gaffers tape on top to prevent scratching. it definitely needs a reflector, if you look at it you cant see anything else for a few seconds.

 

[wirednuts]

How is that novel?

how is it not? i know there are shop lights out there, thats not the point. this is a highly innovative design, because it uses easily acquireable parts and it outperforms anything on the market- in strength, light output and value.

this is one of the few ideas ive had that could actually be mass produced in a garage. theres only 4 holes to drill, but theyre only 2 different sizes. if i set up 2 drill presses and just drilled dozens of pipes out, i would be halfway home right there. at that point, just slap the piece together. it was incredibly easy to make honestly... it has me excited just thinking about producing a batch of them.

 

[SamQuint]

the Chinese beat you to it already

http://www.best-b2b.com/Products/658/668-2/jt206-led-light_217954.html

:whiste:

 

[wirednuts]

the Chinese beat you to it already

http://www.best-b2b.com/Products/658/668-2/jt206-led-light_217954.html

:whiste:

i own that one. it is terrible. its not bright, the hook breaks and cant be fixed, and if i used it in a shop it would be broken within an hour.

like i said, this is not a new invention. its an innovation. there is nothing that performs like this on the market. not on the consumer market anyway! and if there was, there is no way it would be less then $99. there is too much metal in my prototype

 

[Red Squirrel]

If you want to make it very attractive, make it run on 12 volts too. There are ton of these lights already, but they all operate on weird voltages that arn't easy to reproduce. A 12 volt ultra durable light would 1 up a lot of the ones out there already. i have a few of these at home and I had to label the adapters just so I know which is which because they're different non standard voltages.

 

[wirednuts]

If you want to make it very attractive, make it run on 12 volts too. There are ton of these lights already, but they all operate on weird voltages that arn't easy to reproduce. A 12 volt ultra durable light would 1 up a lot of the ones out there already. i have a few of these at home and I had to label the adapters just so I know which is which because they're different non standard voltages.

it does run on 12v. plugs into cig lighter socket in any car. there isnt even any circutry needed, because the resistors are built into the strip.

but, for a shop, it would need to run on a/c. so i found 25w led drivers on ebay for $10... i should be able to cut an extension cord and add the driver near the male end. i could even make it detachable, so it could be used in either a car or a shop.