PAT BUCANNAN SAYS HE BELIEVES MANY OF THE 3400 PALM BEACH VOTES WERE INDEED INTENDED FOR GORE!!!

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GoofusMaximus

Member
May 22, 2000
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I posted this elsewhere, but here's my 2¢ again:

I have friends in florida who are not bluehairs, but that stupid ballot (that the Democrats OK'd) was too darn confusing for even a tax accountant to figure out easily, and helpers at some polling places, were few and far between, and swamped, to boot. A lot of folks realized that they accidentally voted for Buchannon and tore up their ballots, to get a new one; but a lot of folks didn't realize till it was too late.

No conspiracy, but bad design and beurocratic incompetence, ruined the Florida election process, and I for one think those folks deserve to have an election with a less confusing ballot. I don't like (REALLY don't like) either Gore or Bush. They both want to use the imaginary budget surplus to fund their agenda's, and I want the national debt paid off in full. (the time to pay off ones debt is when one is prospering. We can make new debt when we're bad off later.)

So I don't care who's elected in the end, but I do feel for the people who got their vote stolen from them by incompetence and beurocratic inertia, and folks impatience to have the election DONE WITH, and wish the Floridians could get a chance to do it again, and do it right!
 

WilsonCat

Senior member
Nov 12, 1999
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You know, I saw that ballot on the CNN site. Seriously, you have to be a fvcking dope to screw up your vote. Look at the HUGE arrows pointing at which hole is for which candidate. This argument will not fly.
 

chess9

Elite member
Apr 15, 2000
7,748
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Chef:

The actual process of voting!

Does your business use 1960s style punch cards? These are analog machines in a digital age. Every voter could be put in a booth, one at a time, and walked through the ballot visually. The actual counting of the votes could be done in real time with the final result for the entire State of Florida available within 1 minute after the last voter votes. It's that simple. But no money has been allotted by the legislature for such changes. I hope the idiots in Tallahassee rethink funding for the elections process.

 

Russ

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
21,093
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It's a blast watching the liberals hoping against hope. Here's clue for you: Even if the democrats actually found a judge whacko enough to rule for a re-vote, it immediately goes to the Supreme Court, and immediately gets shot down.

No way in hell, the Court would set this kind of precedent. We'd have contested elections every year for all time to come, and the process would crumble. I don't think even you liberals want to see year after year of crisis. Or, maybe you do.

Russ, NCNE
 

Pennstate

Diamond Member
Oct 14, 1999
3,211
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The question he is NOT whether the ballots are confusing to YOU. The question is whether it was confusing to the 23,000 Voters in Palm Beach that possibily had their votes discounted.
 

rickn

Diamond Member
Oct 15, 1999
7,064
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<< I hope the idiots in Tallahassee rethink funding for the elections process. >>



They can't even fix our roads down here, let alone implement something like that. This state is sometimes very backwards.
 

Tripleshot

Elite Member
Jan 29, 2000
7,218
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Russ

Yea right. A judge that would rule in favor of a re vote would be a wacko,but a judge that would rule in favor of throwing the suits out would be sainted.


The emporor has no clothes;)


If it was tied up in court for beyond the Dec 18 date for EC voting,it is possible the Florida delegation would be eliminated and the candidate with the most remaining EC votes would win. (That is a possible scenerio)

Either way,if votes count,shrub isn't the winner of the popular vote. Thats the one that counts. If shrub is elected,he has no mandate to lead,he will be apposed at every junction in the legislature by the dems,and there will be gridlock.(Remove Shrub and insert Bore and you get identicle results)

This whole fiasco is embarassing for the country,but it does reveal we do covet our democratic process of electing our officials. It will come to a conclusion and we will then go back to our meager,unimportant lives.

Enjoy the entertainment. I am! :)
 

fdiskboy

Golden Member
Sep 21, 2000
1,328
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What I think is really funny is that the number of Buchanan votes in Palm Beach County
this year is about 3,000. In 1996, it was twice that.

So, don't tell me its impossible for Buchanan to get ANY votes in that county.

Issue #2: The damn media calling Florida for Gore while some panhandle precincts (which are on Central Time) were STILL OPEN. There are reports that when the state was announced for Gore many voters walked away from the polls. But, you don't see any focus on that in the media? Why not?

Again, we are seeing the results of living in an era of &quot;The Abdication of Personal Responsiblity.&quot;

By the way, I am a CPA, the ballot looks fairly easy to understand to me. (Even better, I'm from Arkansas--so that means I'm an ignorant, redneck as well)
 

Chef0083

Golden Member
Dec 9, 1999
1,184
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Chess9

Technology is our friend but it can be a crutch. First of all what doesn being conservative had to do with using touch screens? Personally I don't know if the expense of having touchscreens in all polling facilites is warranted at this point. I know there are places in the country that should be spending that money on better things like education. The process of voting is the same either way touch screens or not. I do think that the electoral college should be rethought no matter who wins. I don't think it should be thrown out but I do think it can be changed.
 

Russ

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
21,093
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I'll repeat this for the slow among us: The Supreme Court would immediately rule against any re-vote.

Russ, NCNE
 

chess9

Elite member
Apr 15, 2000
7,748
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Russ:

Florida election law rules. Federal law will not be involved unless they are brought in on the separate issues raised by the NAACP and race is involved. The Florida Supreme Court may ultimately rule, but it is very liberal and has a decision that practically guarantees a revote. The U.S. Supreme Court, which is the court to which I assume you refer, will never hear this issue.
 

chess9

Elite member
Apr 15, 2000
7,748
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Chef:

I don't think we need touch screens, but that would be a nice, er, touch. We do need to change the way we handle the physical process of voting.
 

Chef0083

Golden Member
Dec 9, 1999
1,184
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<< The U.S. Supreme Court, which is the court to which I assume you refer, will never hear this issue. >>

This is a national election which falls under the supreme courts jurisdiction. (or atleast i think it does..)
 

chess9

Elite member
Apr 15, 2000
7,748
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Russ:

Apparently, this one lawsuit HAS been filed in Federal Court in Palm Beach. I was told yesterday that State law controls. I guess we will find out if this is the Federal Court's ball.

Edit: I just called my lawyer and left a message for him. Maybe he knows.
 

fdiskboy

Golden Member
Sep 21, 2000
1,328
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Actually the states are responsible for holding the election.

They are ultimately responsible not the feds. The only way the Supreme Court gets it is if appeals make it that far in a potential suit.
 

fdiskboy

Golden Member
Sep 21, 2000
1,328
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Actually the nightmare caused by the Supreme Court ruling FOR a revote in the unlikely event
this whole disaster makes it that far would easily mean a strong NO vote from the justices on the bench. I hope everyone realizes that ballots get spoiled in EVERY ELECTION in EVERY COUNTY IN EVERY STATE. Do we want to vote in each election multiple times just because some people don't take the time and effort to ensure they know what they are doing?

The Supreme Court would have a good laugh and then slap the lawyers that presented the appeal.
 

chess9

Elite member
Apr 15, 2000
7,748
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FdiskBoy:

Apparently, some lawyer is asking the Federal Court to step in. I believe there is a state court suit as well. Maybe I'm wrong.
 

Russ

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
21,093
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chess9,

I can guarantee it would go the the US Supreme Court. Any issue that has the potential to cause a Constitutional crisis would. When it does, it will get shot down immediately.

EDIT: Unless, of course, the lower court has the wisdom to rule against such a ridiculous idea.

Russ, NCNE
 

CoolTechie

Senior member
Jul 20, 2000
635
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<< The question he is NOT whether the ballots are confusing to YOU. The question is whether it was confusing to the 23,000 Voters in Palm Beach that possibily had their votes discounted. >>



yo this is soo true... my grandmother is from down there and god knows she has trouble reading and figuring papers out bigtime.. and there are a bunch of people filling lawsuits because they voted for Buchanan by accident.. obv personal lawsuits is a little much... but i feel there should be a revote if theres any question, which there is... even if gore wins there should be a revote.. id ont see why people would be opposed to this besides if they afraid that their candidate will loose because the true representation will be revealed.. or else they just like to have one of those superior attitudes where its incomprehendable for anyone else to get it wrong cuz it was soooo easy for them.. re vote!
 

fdiskboy

Golden Member
Sep 21, 2000
1,328
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Chess9,

Anyone can ASK the Feds to step in, but it in all likelihood will not happen. Sets all kinds of bad precendents. Those requests will be denied until the legal process takes the expected course...local court, appeals court, state Supreme Court, national Supreme Court, or something along those lines.

Besides...there's &quot;no controlling legal authority&quot;

Hehe. Never thought I'd get to use that. (It's a joke, son, a joke.)
 

CrumCake

Senior member
Nov 10, 1999
571
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Thet said a few ago on the CNN show burden of proof that in 96 there was 15,000 votes thrown out in that county. Seems like they would've fixed the problem by now, don't you think.
 

CoolTechie

Senior member
Jul 20, 2000
635
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would it ever be possibel to have the whole country revote? i think that would be pretty amazing!
 

DaBoneHead

Senior member
Sep 1, 2000
489
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I saw the ballot too, but there was one thing that you all are missing.

Voting is done in queues and in a limited number of booths. We all hate standing in line, and so we try to be quick about it. In many of these areas (if not all), they were not just electing a president, they were electing a group of politicians, which means many ballots. Also, many of the politicians on the ballots -- they never heard of, but they will vote anyways. So voting can be a confusing process, we know more or less who we will vote for, but the details get to us... and that is what is wrong with that ballot.

We read from left to right. Therefore, it is natural for us to look to the left of a document and begin there. Starting from the left, the Gore box is second from the top, however, his punch-hole is third from the top.

Now, put yourself in a voters mind, a voter who is rushing through the process because the kids are in the car, the place is crowded, they are double parked and dont want to get a ticket, etc. They know they are going to vote Gore, and so when they get the ballot, they immediately look for his name, find it second from the top, move further to the right ignoring the arrow (it is a detail, therefore a rushed person will overlook it), punch the second hole from the top, only then to realize they screwed up as they see Buchanan's name because their eyes are looking farther to the right. In horror and not wanting to look stupid, they punch the third hole down and hope it all works out...

And that is why there are 19,000 double punched ballots that were thrown out and not counted.

And the election goes to Bush.

 

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