Passage of the ACHA Lays Bare The Hatred and Contempt in The Hearts of GOP Voters

[Engineer]

The thing is we're stuck with ugly premiums like you describe if nothing's done. If Republicans can reverse that they'll be hailed as saviors. If they don't they'll pay a huge political price.

And with these lower premiums, we lose nothing? Coverage as good or better than we have now? What's the tradeoff here? Insurance companies aren't going to do it out of the goodness of their hearts.

 

[ivwshane]

And with these lower premiums, we lose nothing? Coverage as good or better than we have now? What's the tradeoff here? Insurance companies aren't going to do it out of the goodness of their hearts.

Oh I'm sure the insurance companies will if you give them big enough incentives with no penalties! /s


Its in the bill btw.

 

[Engineer]

GOP turning Trumpcare back into Obamacare?

https://www.yahoo.com/news/gop-senators-mull-cutting-tax-break-wealthy-222341462.html

My 2 cents...if they leave the 3.8% tax in there, this thing will be dead on arrival in the House and most likely, the Senate too.

 

[Jhhnn]

GOP turning Trumpcare back into Obamacare?

https://www.yahoo.com/news/gop-senators-mull-cutting-tax-break-wealthy-222341462.html

My 2 cents...if they leave the 3.8% tax in there, this thing will be dead on arrival in the House and most likely, the Senate too.

Anybody who knows anything about the way the Repub Party works knows it's all about the tax cuts at the top. They're mercenaries for the right wing plutocracy.

 

[jackstar7]

Anybody who knows anything about the way the Repub Party works knows it's all about the tax cuts at the top. They're mercenaries for the right wing plutocracy.

Well, also due to rules of reconciliation, it has to be a tax bill in the first place, and it is an attempt to pave the road for the "actual" tax bill coming right behind it that finishes the job.

 

[Sea Ray]

And with these lower premiums, we lose nothing? Coverage as good or better than we have now? What's the tradeoff here? Insurance companies aren't going to do it out of the goodness of their hearts.

As a consumer you ought to be able to choose your coverage. If you don't want coverage for all the essential elements required under Obamacare, you shouldn't have to buy it. For example I'm fine with paying for my doctor's visits for checkups if it means that my premiums go down. It'd be like having your car insurance pay for oil changes, brakes and new batteries. If you could buy such a plan the premium would be astronomical. Same thing with Obamacare. They required so many things to be covered that the premiums went through the roof

 

[fskimospy]

As a consumer you ought to be able to choose your coverage. If you don't want coverage for all the essential elements required under Obamacare, you shouldn't have to buy it. For example I'm fine with paying for my doctor's visits for checkups if it means that my premiums go down. It'd be like having your car insurance pay for oil changes, brakes and new batteries. If you could buy such a plan the premium would be astronomical. Same thing with Obamacare. They required so many things to be covered that the premiums went through the roof

This is an incredibly dumb idea. If you simply get to choose whatever you want to have covered then tons of young and healthy people will choose plans that exempt expensive diseases like diabetes and cancer. What does that mean? The plans that do cover them will have premiums of $10k a month or whatever, ensuring a death spiral where only the people who have those conditions and expenses greater than 10k a month buy them. Essential benefits isn't just smart policy from a humanitarian perspective it's smart from a policy perspective as it prevents exactly such a segmented death spiral.

The sheer incompetence coming from the right on health policy here is frightening. They appear to lack even a single powerful person who knows what they fuck they are doing.

 

[McGerkins]

As a consumer you ought to be able to choose your coverage. If you don't want coverage for all the essential elements required under Obamacare, you shouldn't have to buy it. For example I'm fine with paying for my doctor's visits for checkups if it means that my premiums go down. It'd be like having your car insurance pay for oil changes, brakes and new batteries. If you could buy such a plan the premium would be astronomical. Same thing with Obamacare. They required so many things to be covered that the premiums went through the roof

You keep saying this, but when asked what mandatory services are causing premiums to go through the roof you haven't offered much.

Using your analogy, when you take your car in and the mechanic says you need to do "x" on your car what is your response? Mine is usually a combinations of questions like why, how long does it take, what's involved, and how much?

Insurance companies realize that you get the same response in a conversation between a Doctor and a patient. I would argue that most patients are likely to decline or postpone a recommended care plan if the answers aren't low impact. Point being, if the doctor wants you to do something, the insurance company wants you to do it too. So they write plans to cover these "non-essential" things because catching things early in medicine is the best cost savings tool insurers have.

Your root issue is that what you consider non-essential, is only non-essential to you right now. Insurance policies, any insurance, does not care to cover you at an individual level. It's profits are based on pools of policy holders. This is not an ACA consequence, it's actually the free market working as intended.

 

[Sea Ray]

This is an incredibly dumb idea. If you simply get to choose whatever you want to have covered then tons of young and healthy people will choose plans that exempt expensive diseases like diabetes and cancer. What does that mean? The plans that do cover them will have premiums of $10k a month or whatever, ensuring a death spiral where only the people who have those conditions and expenses greater than 10k a month buy them. Essential benefits isn't just smart policy from a humanitarian perspective it's smart from a policy perspective as it prevents exactly such a segmented death spiral.

The sheer incompetence coming from the right on health policy here is frightening. They appear to lack even a single powerful person who knows what they fuck they are doing.

That's an incredibly dumb post. Diabetes and cancer are not one of the Obamacare essential health benefits. Get educated and then put up another one of your partisan posts. This one isn't worth another word

 

[Sea Ray]

You keep saying this, but when asked what mandatory services are causing premiums to go through the roof you haven't offered much.

Using your analogy, when you take your car in and the mechanic says you need to do "x" on your car what is your response? Mine is usually a combinations of questions like why, how long does it take, what's involved, and how much?

Insurance companies realize that you get the same response in a conversation between a Doctor and a patient. I would argue that most patients are likely to decline or postpone a recommended care plan if the answers aren't low impact. Point being, if the doctor wants you to do something, the insurance company wants you to do it too. So they write plans to cover these "non-essential" things because catching things early in medicine is the best cost savings tool insurers have.

Your root issue is that what you consider non-essential, is only non-essential to you right now. Insurance policies, any insurance, does not care to cover you at an individual level. It's profits are based on pools of policy holders. This is not an ACA consequence, it's actually the free market working as intended.

I've mentioned these MANY times. Google it and you'll see what they are. I want my plan to cover serious illnesses. I do not need it to cover my $20 co-pay for office visits. I do not need 100% coverage for mammograms and colonoscopies. I'll pay for those as needed out of my health savings account. I do not need my insurance co to pay for birth control or kids dental. These are all things that drive up my health care premium.

 

[fskimospy]

That's an incredibly dumb post. Diabetes and cancer are not one of the Obamacare essential health benefits. Get educated and then put up another one of your partisan posts. This one isn't worth another word

Considering how we've repeatedly demonstrated how little you know about either of the health care bills you have no room to tell anyone to get educated.

Even if you (bizarrely) only magically meant the ACA essential benefits diabetes and cancer can easily be rendered untreatable under a plan by eliminating the prescription drug essential benefit.

I sincerely wish someday you would stop making these partisan posts and educate yourself on health care before saying stupid things like this.Don't support something stupid just because your political sports team does and instead think for yourself.

It's things like this that make you unable to admit even obvious mistakes like the Ben Franklin thing.

 

[Sea Ray]

Considering how we've repeatedly demonstrated how little you know about either of the health care bills you have no room to tell anyone to get educated.

Even if you (bizarrely) only magically meant the ACA essential benefits diabetes and cancer can easily be rendered untreatable under a plan by eliminating the prescription drug essential benefit.

I sincerely wish someday you would stop making these partisan posts and educate yourself on health care before saying stupid things like this.Don't support something stupid just because your political sports team does and instead think for yourself.

It's things like this that make you unable to admit even obvious mistakes like the Ben Franklin thing.

Once again you don't know what you're talking about. Just because you don't opt for that benefit doesn't mean that you get no coverage. It mostly means that you'll have to pay for your drugs 'till you hit your deductible.

Far left liberals like Bernie Sanders love Medicare for all. Medicare's Rx drug benefit Part D is OPTIONAL. I want the same freedom as Medicare recipients.

If you want me to converse with you you'll have to cool it on the personal attacks. You've been warned. I've given you some very specific items here. Address them or not.

 

[Blackjack200]

Far left liberals like Bernie Sanders love Medicare for all. Medicare's Rx drug benefit Part D is OPTIONAL. I want the same freedom as Medicare recipients.

Supporting Medicare for all does not mean you think Medicare is perfect. Part D is awful.

 

[fskimospy]

Once again you don't know what you're talking about. Just because you don't opt for that benefit doesn't mean that you get no coverage. It mostly means that you'll have to pay for your drugs 'till you hit your deductible.

Lol, that is absolutely not what it means. You seriously need to educate yourself before posting further, and doubly so before telling anyone else to educate themselves.

Essential health benefits define what must be covered by a plan. If it's not an essential benefit it doesn't have to be covered AT ALL. It would be extremely easy to exclude drugs and services required by diabetics and cancer patients if those benefits were not required.

Far left liberals like Bernie Sanders love Medicare for all. Medicare's Rx drug benefit Part D is OPTIONAL. I want the same freedom as Medicare recipients.

And the government decides what that is for everyone, so it covers basically everything. Insurance companies would be under no such requirement and in fact the freedom to exclude drugs for expensive treatments is exactly the sort of 'freedom' you're asking for to lower prices.

If you want me to converse with you you'll have to cool it on the personal attacks. You've been warned. I've given you some very specific items here. Address them or not.

Lol, you personally attack me and then whine about being personally attacked. Hypocrite.

You have a lot of growing up to do.

 

[Sea Ray]

Supporting Medicare for all does not mean you think Medicare is perfect. Part D is awful.

Fair enough. So you disagree with Medicare for all. My point here is that even in a completely gov't run healthcare system like Medicare, you have the option to opt out of Rx coverage. I'd think opting out on the free market would be a no brainer.

 

[Sea Ray]

Lol, that is absolutely not what it means. You seriously need to educate yourself before posting further, and doubly so before telling anyone else to educate themselves.

Essential health benefits define what must be covered by a plan. If it's not an essential benefit it doesn't have to be covered AT ALL. It would be extremely easy to exclude drugs and services required by diabetics and cancer patients if those benefits were not required.



And the government decides what that is for everyone, so it covers basically everything. Insurance companies would be under no such requirement and in fact the freedom to exclude drugs for expensive treatments is exactly the sort of 'freedom' you're asking for to lower prices.



Lol, you personally attack me and then whine about being personally attacked. Hypocrite.

You have a lot of growing up to do.

You obviously have never bought insurance for yourself on the private market so you don't know what you're talking about. I have done this my entire life. I know that prior to Obamacare I could opt out of the Rx drug benefit and then I'd have to pay for it until I hit my deductible at which point my insurance would pick it up. I chose that plan because it was more economical. Those plans are no longer allowed. I understand you're a far left liberal who always thinks gov't knows better and ought to tell us stupid people what to do but I for one have more confidence in the American people that that. I trust them to make their own healthcare choices and I'd like my healthcare freedoms restored.

You were doing fine till your last paragraph. Welcome to ignore. Bark at the moon all you like. I'm done with you.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Fair enough. So you disagree with Medicare for all. My point here is that even in a completely gov't run healthcare system like Medicare, you have the option to opt out of Rx coverage. I'd think opting out on the free market would be a no brainer.

You can opt out of the ACA, you pay a penalty.

You can opt out of Medicare addons, the penalty is that you will owe far more for certain items.

 

[fskimospy]

You obviously have never bought insurance for yourself on the private market so you don't know what you're talking about. I have done this my entire life. I know that prior to Obamacare I could opt out of the Rx drug benefit and then I'd have to pay for it until I hit my deductible at which point my insurance would pick it up. I chose that plan because it was more economical. Those plans are no longer allowed. I understand you're a far left liberal who always thinks gov't knows better and ought to tell us stupid people what to do but I for one have more confidence in the American people that that. I trust them to make their own healthcare choices and I'd like my healthcare freedoms restored.

I have no idea what your previous insurance was but I do know what essential benefits are. If something isn't included in essential benefits they don't have to pay a single dime. Ever.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

You were doing fine till your last paragraph. Welcome to ignore. Bark at the moon all you like. I'm done with you.

Darn, and you were doing such a good job of listening before then.

You personally attack people and then whine about being personally attacked. You're a hypocrite.

 

[Sea Ray]

You can opt out of the ACA, you pay a penalty.

You can opt out of Medicare addons, the penalty is that you will owe far more for certain items.

Insurance companies cannot opt out of ACA. They are no longer allowed to offer me al a carte insurance plans. That's an example of excessive gov't regulation that drives up the cost of insurance.

As for Medicare, not everyone needs Part D Rx items, thus it is not a certain item. 65 yr olds would most likely opt out but when they're older they can opt in.

 

[buckshot24]

Trump is starting to see the light. He tweeted that they should just repeal and worry about replace later. If you do this you could possibly get some democrats on board. That should have been plan a.

 

[Azuma Hazuki]

Lordy!

 

[Engineer]

Trump is starting to see the light. He tweeted that they should just repeal and worry about replace later. If you do this you could possibly get some democrats on board. That should have been plan a.

The GOP (nor you) care if any Dems come on board as the whole goal is to repeal without replace. The magical pie in the sky free market on healthcare will save us.....just wait a little longer.

 

[Geekbabe]

I am fortunate in that I take an FDA approved cancer drug that is infused via my chemo port at the cancer center. Many Cancer patients take oral, targeted therapy drugs, having to pay out of pocket for these drugs would devastate these patients!

Praying to god that balanced billing doesn't make a comeback!

 

[buckshot24]

The GOP (nor you) care if any Dems come on board as the whole goal is to repeal without replace. The magical pie in the sky free market on healthcare will save us.....just wait a little longer.

More market principles in health care would be better. Having people "purchase" things that they aren't actually paying for never works as far as controlling cost is concerned.

 

[Engineer]

More market principles in health care would be better. Having people "purchase" things that they aren't actually paying for never works as far as controlling cost is concerned.

and unless you cut those people off (poor people and others on Medicaid) and keep them from obtaining care unless they are paying (either in cash or with upfront insurance), you'll still end up paying for them and in many cases, more than you would have (they go to the ER) otherwise. Put universal healthcare in, fund it with a sales tax or the likes and put everyone's skin in the game. Otherwise, the people paying for insurance are paying for everyone...those with Medicaid (taxes) and those without anything who can't / won't pay (via higher prices as the medical professionals pass the write offs to you).

Of course, your goal is to get everyone off of insurance that they cannot afford on their own and cut them off so that the demand for healthcare will go down. Once the demand is down, you think you'll get a big price reduction of both care and insurance prices. It's funny how hard conservatives fight to get people into this world (anti-abortion) and don't give a shit about them once they get here. I guess Gordon Gekko's "Greed is good" comes to mind. I got mine, fuck you. Good luck with that.