Partial Wall Removal Help

[4eigner]

I'm doing a kitchen remodel/demo and came upon a partial wall that I wanted to remove. Upon taking out the drywall, I was a bit surprised in how it was setup. I was wondering if my fix would help in removing the wall. I believe it's not load bearing since the floor and ceiling joists run parallel to the wall. Here is how it's currently setup.
https://imgur.com/1o4LnV9
The green area is what I'd like to remove.

Proposed changes.
https://imgur.com/1C1PTrM
Here is the other side view. The green area is the partial wall I'd like to remove.
https://imgur.com/U2YZWWp
Here's a Google Photo Link if I the inline image doesn't work.

What does AT think of the proposed changes? Am I missing something?

 

[paperfist]

Is that a header in the ceiling before the room with a bay window?

Are you putting a door there (green part) or just looking to make the room with the bay window larger?

 

[4eigner]

Yes, the header is just right before the bay window.
If you need a layout, I can try to get a bigger picture! Or draw out a layout of the rooms.

I'm removing the wall to make the room bigger.

 

[paperfist]

It's not clear to me what part of the wall you want to eliminate.

If it's the whole green wall to the left and the blue boxes you have laid out on the ceiling are the floor joists then the wall on the left is structural.

What's above the ceiling attic or 2nd floor?

The ceiling coffers look like they are hiding duct work and of course there's going to be electrical and possible piping in the walls. It would help to know what the adjacent rooms are.

 

[4eigner]

I would like to get rid of the green wall (area 'OO') which is about 7 feet tall by 18 inches wide by 5 inches thick.

Above the header is attic space.

The bay window is the dining area and the green wall kinda separates the kitchen and dining area.

I haven't taken out the drywall in the middle of the header yet to see what's hidden there. My main question was, if I were to sister join stud '2' and '3', and connect stud '1' to stud '2', would that be enough support for the header?

 

[Greenman]

I'm baffled by your description as well. It looks like the ceiling height changes on the other side of the header. I don't see a king stud or cripple at the end of the header though.

 

[paperfist]

You just want to remove this part?

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1...?key=QkZoN0dmQjNlVExHOHR0YlF0LXo3NUtNdjVNSUJR

That's supporting the header above it though not very well. There's a roof right above the bay window I'm guessing?

 

[Greenman]

You just want to remove this part?

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1...?key=QkZoN0dmQjNlVExHOHR0YlF0LXo3NUtNdjVNSUJR

That's supporting the header above it though not very well. There's a roof right above the bay window I'm guessing?

So he'd end up with a narrow hole into another room? That can't be right. We're missing something.

OP, could you do a floor plan, that would help.

 

[4eigner]

I would like to say, thank you for all the replies!

Here is a floor plan. Definitely not to scale, my paint skills suck.

Floor Plan

And @paperfist : Yes to the wall removal.

 

[Humpy]

Remove the rest of the plaster on the kitchen side so you can see what you're dealing with. You'll have to anyway. Be careful and you can save the plaster on the dining room side.

Doesn't really matter if it's load bearing or not. Treat it like it is so you don't get plaster cracks. Can you see up in the attic and crawl space to confirm there isn't a change of direction of the framing members?

 

[4eigner]

Yes, definitely trying my best to save the plaster/drywall on the dining room side. There is design work on the ceiling I'd rather not have to repair or screw up.

I've looked up in the attic and all the joists are running parallel to the partial wall. I have a buddy who's given me some instructions to fix the headers.

Current Headers

Planned

 

[Carson Dyle]

Your first photo, looking into the dining area, is deceiving. The little wall you want to remove looks like it meets the left wall of the dining room (behind the basket) at a corner, not like it juts out into the room. Also, it looks like the ceiling height is lower in the dining room.

The photo from the dining room looking back into the kitchen clears up any confusion, though. I'm not sure the commenters above have looked at that photo.

 

[Humpy]

I've recently done nearly this same work in a similar era house.

Get an oscillating tool with a carbide or diamond grit blade to cut away the plaster and diamond mesh so you aren't bashing at things so much with a hammer. The $20 Harbor Freight version will work good enough for this. It will make clean cuts without much vibration.

Spring for the small extra cost of engineered lumber, 2x10 or 12 equivalent, to build the header. It will save a lot of work, give a surface to glue the dining side plaster board to, and minimize risk of damaging the dining room finish you want to save from framing shrinkage and twisting.

Carefully expose what you need to and remove old framing, install a new header, push some jack studs into place. Pretty straightforward.

 

[Greenman]

Yes, definitely trying my best to save the plaster/drywall on the dining room side. There is design work on the ceiling I'd rather not have to repair or screw up.

I've looked up in the attic and all the joists are running parallel to the partial wall. I have a buddy who's given me some instructions to fix the headers.

Current Headers

Planned

There is no header there at all, so I wouldn't worry about trying to correct the framing. I also doubt you'll get any of that material out without trashing the plaster on the other side. I'd leave the framing and screw a layer of 1/2" plywood to it for structural integrity. It only needs to be strong enough to support itself.

 

[Humpy]

I also doubt you'll get any of that material out without trashing the plaster on the other side.

It's worth trying IMO, matching whatever texture there is can be a time suck for a DIYer.

After cutting the framing nails with a sawzall the members can be pried away from the backside, nails pulling through the plaster board. The plaster is usually thicker near the floor and ceiling so it can stay surprisingly intact.

A solid header isn't needed structurally but it gives a nice solid base to rebuild from.

 

[Greenman]

It's worth trying IMO, matching whatever texture there is can be a time suck for a DIYer.

After cutting the framing nails with a sawzall the members can be pried away from the backside, nails pulling through the plaster board. The plaster is usually thicker near the floor and ceiling so it can stay surprisingly intact.

A solid header isn't needed structurally but it gives a nice solid base to rebuild from.

My point was to not even bother trying to remove the framing, just add some where the wall is coming out and span it with half inch plywood. That way the plaster on the other side isn't disturbed.
The entire structure is decorative, it only needs to be strong enough to not fall on his head.

 

[Humpy]

My point was to not even bother trying to remove the framing, just add some where the wall is coming out and span it with half inch plywood. That way the plaster on the other side isn't disturbed.
The entire structure is decorative, it only needs to be strong enough to not fall on his head.

That's probably the best way.

Admittedly a small header would be over doing it a little but is what I'd do if it was new construction or a repair.

 

[Greenman]

That's probably the best way.

Admittedly a small header would be over doing it a little but is what I'd do if it was new construction or a repair.

It's "best practice" for sure.