Parents of murdered British students criticise Barack Obama

[Infohawk]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...-British-students-criticise-Barack-Obama.html

His failure to respond to three letters sent to the White House was because there was no "political value" and not worthy of a few minutes of his time.
They spoke out as teenager Shawn Tyson began a life sentence after being found guilty of the murder of James Cooper and James Kouzaris last April.
The 17 year old, who shot the men as they begged for their lives, will die in prison.
His conviction of first degree murder carries an mandatory life sentence without the chance of parole.
The powerfully built teen even looked bored as emotional DVD presentations about the dead men prepared by their grieving parents were shown in court.
Tyson, who has the word 'Savage' tattooed across his chest didn't show a flicker of emotion, slumping in his seat as he was forced to watch a montage of photos showing the victims from early childhood to young men.
Two close friends of the dead men who had attended the eight day trial in Sarasota, Florida. had also delivered highly emotional impact statements to the court prior to the sentencing.
Paul Davies and Joe Hallett spoke of the "living hell" they and others who knew the men had suffered since the murders.
During the eight day trial they had been shown graphic crime scene and autopsy photos shown in court.
Later speaking after Tyson was jailed Davies and Hallett lashed out at Mr Obama saying the deaths of their friends was "not worthy of ten minutes of his time."
Davies said:"We would like to publicly express our dissatisfaction at the lack of any public or private message of support or condolence from any American governing body or indeed, President Obama himself.
"Mr Kouzaris has written to President Obama on three separate occasions and is yet to even receive the courtesy of a reply.
"It would perhaps appear that Mr Obama sees no political value in facilitating such a request or that the lives of two British tourists are not worthy of ten minutes of his time."

When is a crime (or alleged crime) worthy of being addressed by the president? Should it come down to a popularity contest? Clearly he can't console every parent of a slain child.

 

[Phokus]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...-British-students-criticise-Barack-Obama.html



When is a crime (or alleged crime) worthy of being addressed by the president? Should it come down to a popularity contest? Clearly he can't console every parent of a slain child.

The perpetrator is going to prison. I don't see the problem here.

In Trayvon's case, there was police misconduct/huge incompetence at how the handled the case. That's the biggest reason why this is such a big story.

 

[chimaxi83]

So these guys were killed like any other stupid random murder, and the President is supposed to address it? Yea, no. Not to be an ass but who do they think they are? Maybe they can get an I'm Sorry letter from the local PD.

 

[Joseph F]

There's no such thing as a crime worthy of being addressed by the president.
He's a busy man, and shouldn't be bogged down with tasks such as consoling mourning parents.
(Unless the person who died was in military service)

 

[Infohawk]

So these guys were killed like any other stupid random murder, and the President is supposed to address it? Yea, no. Not to be an ass but who do they think they are? Maybe they can get an I'm Sorry letter from the local PD.

When is something not a stupid random murder?

 

[woolfe9999]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...-British-students-criticise-Barack-Obama.html



When is a crime (or alleged crime) worthy of being addressed by the president? Should it come down to a popularity contest? Clearly he can't console every parent of a slain child.

Exactly. Obama doesn't even have time to issue a statement about every murder that happens on U.S. soil, let alone those that occur in foreign nations.

 

[Moonbeam]

These folk haven't reached the final stage of grief.

 

[Joseph F]

These folk haven't reached the final stage of grief.

Moonbeam hit the nail on the head.

 

[Infohawk]

Exactly. Obama doesn't even have time to issue a statement about every murder that happens on U.S. soil, let alone those that occur in foreign nations.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/29/shawn-tyson-gets-life-sentence_n_1387550.html

The men were in Florida staying with Cooper's family on a Gulf coast beach near Sarasota and on April 15, they dined and drank downtown.

Authorities said both were drunk when they got lost and accidentally wandered just before 3 a.m. into the housing project where Tyson lived.

Witnesses testified that Tyson told them he saw two "crackers" – a derogatory term for white people – walking through the neighborhood and that he intended to rob them. The tourists said they didn't have any money and begged Tyson to let them go home. The men also told Tyson they were lost.

Happened in in Florida, involves race issues, gun violence, and a minor.

 

[woolfe9999]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/29/shawn-tyson-gets-life-sentence_n_1387550.html




Happened in in Florida, involves race issues, gun violence, and a minor.

Brain fart on my part. Saw the UK press coverage.

Anyway, I think the discussion of why we're discussing the Martin case so much is part of what is enlarging and perpetuating said discussion. Every day it seems there is a new story about another case which...isn't getting as much attention as Martin and people are asking why. There's probably 5 threads on this forum alone the principle topic of which is, why is this other case not getting so much attention, or why is Martin getting so much, or both.

This has nothing to do with Obama in spite of the allegations in the article. Obama made a measured comment on Martin because the story was so big he was expected to. The issue is why was it such a big story and I'm afraid that issue is being done to death now just as much as the various other aspects of the case are. In fact, if we stop discussing why we're discussing it so much, we'll be discussing it a lot less.

 

[Infohawk]

There's probably 5 threads on this forum alone the principle topic of which is, why is this other case not getting so much attention, or why is Martin getting so much, or both.

This topic is more specific. When should a president comment on a crime? Being big news is certainly a factor, but it's a little sad if that alone is enough.

Also, don't want to rehash it too much here but I don't see that Obama's remark was very measured. He gave more momentum to a questionable racial issue (mixed race on black crime?) and seemed to suggest by his answer that Martin was innocent when that hadn't been established. I'm sure he didn't anger any of his base, but it doesn't seem particularly savvy to me. What if evidence came out that Martin was responsible? He would have played into his opponents' hands.

 

[woolfe9999]

This topic is more specific. When should a president comment on a crime? Being big news is certainly a factor, but it's a little sad if that alone is enough.

Also, don't want to rehash it too much here but I don't see that Obama's remark was very measured. He gave more momentum to a questionable racial issue (mixed race on black crime?) and seemed to suggest by his answer that Martin was innocent when that hadn't been established. I'm sure he didn't anger any of his base, but it doesn't seem particularly savvy to me. What if evidence came out that Martin was responsible? He would have played into his opponents' hands.

We can agree to disagree about Obama's remarks.

On the broader question I'm afraid the answer is yes, it's based on press coverage and, these days, internet buzz being added to it. The only exception is when we're speaking of federal crimes that the DoJ is investigating/prosecuting, i.e. wall street fraud etc. because there he has to comment for specific policy reasons. If it's murders, there are 10's of thousands of them per year I'm afraid.

The best policy in theory is to comment on none of them lest you open yourself to charges like those made in your OP by those victims' families. However, unfortunately, in the rare case where a crime is this big a story, there is a sense that the POTUS is obligated to comment or people consider it insensitive. That is politics, but to be fair, the politics are not of the POTUS' making but rather are being imposed on the POTUS by our own political culture. Hence, no POTUS would behave differently under the circumstances. Even the GOP candidates all commented on it AND, BTW, they sided much more explicitly with Martin than Obama did, which pretty much shoots down any theory that Obama commented because "it's a black thing."

- wolf

 

[CanOWorms]

He doesn't have the time to address every crime. What do they expect? Plus, he's most likely not going to go out of his way to appease the British public.

 

[Infohawk]

Even the GOP candidates all commented on it AND, BTW, they sided much more explicitly with Martin than Obama did, which pretty much shoots down any theory that Obama commented because "it's a black thing."

- wolf

Didn't Obama pretty much explicitly bring race into it when he commented his son would have looked like Martin? Anyway, I seem to remember Gingrich attacking Obama for the comment. Doesn't quite seem like they're on the same page.

 

[soundforbjt]

He was also asked specifically about the incident he did comment on by a reporter at a press conference. IIRC, Romney and Gingrich commented on it also, why isn't anybody complaining about them? One of them could be President in Nov.

 

[Joepublic2]

Probably because they don't remind him of his daughters or look like his hypothetical son.

 

[Infohawk]

He was also asked specifically about the incident he did comment on by a reporter at a press conference. IIRC, Romney and Gingrich commented on it also, why isn't anybody complaining about them? One of them could be President in Nov.

It seems like there has been some hubbub about Gingrich's comments. In any case, what candidates do doesn't really answer the question of what the president SHOULD do.

 

[soundforbjt]

It seems like there has been some hubbub about Gingrich's comments. In any case, what candidates do doesn't really answer the question of what the president SHOULD do.

Look at the thread about Romney and the Russian President, which I believe I mentioned to you before. It mattered to him what a candidate ( Romney) said.

 

[werepossum]

The Martin shooting fits an agenda for the media and they are aggressively (and completely unethically) pushing it. Accordingly, Obama was asked for a comment. (I don't discount the possibility that the question was planted or arranged, I just don't see any reason to assume it.) At that point if he does not respond he looks like a cold dick. That he goes all out in sympathy for Martin and has nothing for Cooper and Kouzaris probably has a lot to do with Martin looking more like Obama, but in any case he gave a reasonably good response.

Had the media been pushing the Cooper/Kouzaris killings I'm sure Obama would have commented, albeit not with the same empathy. Obviously Obama identifies more with Martin, but not only for skin color; it's also a natural reaction for a parent, and doubly so for black parents. The victims in the Cooper/Kouzaris killings weren't children, the killers were. It's true that blacks statistically offend at a greater rate but that doesn't lesson a black parent's fear that his children might be killed by someone applying statistical criteria to individuals. Black parents have the same fears of their children being victimized by criminals, but also have a greater fear of their children being victimized by law-abiding citizens and even the police. I don't know for a fact that this fear is statistically valid, but I'd bet money it is.

 

[Lithium381]

Funny, I didn't hear anything out of Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson about this case, either.

 

[RedString]

The Z case became an issue because it brought into question laws, and has the possibility of changing laws. This is why Obama commented on the case, not because of the race issue - though I'm sure is played a small part. It's funny now that people are constantly posting on Anand cases, any cases, that typically include Black hurting Whites, as if it's in any way shape or form, the equivalent of the Martin vs Zimmerman case. Ignoring the fact that none of them, regardless of ruling, will have any affect of the legal system whatsoever.

 

[Theb]

Zimmerman! Guns! Al Sharpton! Obama!

It's a comment. You fill in the blanks however you want. Probably the best comment in the thread.

Edit: Abortion! Healthcare!

Edit2: How could I forget - Race!

Edit3: Circumcision?

 

[Infohawk]

The Z case became an issue because it brought into question laws, and has the possibility of changing laws. This is why Obama commented on the case, not because of the race issue - though I'm sure is played a small part. It's funny now that people are constantly posting on Anand cases, any cases, that typically include Black hurting Whites, as if it's in any way shape or form, the equivalent of the Martin vs Zimmerman case. Ignoring the fact that none of them, regardless of ruling, will have any affect of the legal system whatsoever.

ps: ^ fucking racist.

What makes you think Obama talked about it because of gun laws? He didn't say anything like, "this shows us the dangers of guns in society." The case in this topic is also relevant to gun laws. So no, the gun law thing doesn't really make any sense. If you listen to what he talks about, he explicitly brings up race.

 

[umbrella39]

The fact that these people got any press about this Obama shit is too much... Mr Kouzaris needs to shut the fuck up, the conviction of first degree murder carries an mandatory life sentence without the chance of parole. What the fuck else do they want, a cookie? Sorry mate, you don't get a response from the POTUS just because you want one.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Obama tended to get involved too much. Recall how he jumped the gun with the incident between the white police officer and the black professor, making the assumption many here did, that the former was racist. Well that backfired nicely but at least he eventually learned to shut up which puts him ahead of many.