Palit's Sonic Dual 4870

[P2Mc28]

EDIT: Most of my questions have been covered - I'd like some feedback on the bold section!

Palit 4870 Sonic Dual 512MB

I've been waiting for a 4870 with a nice beefy cooler for a while, and I was totally sold on this one... until I discovered that the cooler is significantly louder than the 37 db listed on Newegg (I've read ~47db, which is a massive difference).

So... it's definitely causing me to pause before buying one.

I definitely want a 4870, I absolutely do not want a reference board (too much heat!), but I don't care about overclocking, I really only care about cooling. My PC is very well vented so a card that dumps all the heat back into the case (like this one) isn't a terrible concern for me. Points to those that vent out the back all the same though.

I was wondering if I were to purchase this one, if I could somehow manage the fans? Could I replace them? Would that make a difference? I do not want to replace a heatsink - I really hate doing that for my processor, I'm not good at judging how much thermal grease I should use... always use too much I think... I really just don't want to deal with that if I don't have to.

Lastly, can I even utilize the 1gb version? I mean, that's the one I want, but is it even practical? I've got a couple 22" monitors at 1680x1050. Since this is their native resolution, that's pretty much it, isn't it? I can't truly scale anything past that? Supreme Commander, however, uses BOTH screens. Which is freaking awesome. It utterly destroys my 7600 GT tho... (temporary! I just had to buy my computer... friend sold it to me for cheap just so I had something to run on! lol). And it should be noted that Palit's 512 version is cheaper than most reference boards, in addition to the fact that I haven't found the 1gb version for sale yet (but it's on their website).

I mostly play WoW, but I'll be picking up Fallout 3, and Crysis at some point... because, seriously, I haven't played it, I've got this new computer... and, man I just need to seeit. Amirite? Plus, the sequel looks beautiful. Same goes for Far Cry.

Edit:
Some system specs, should they be prudent -
e8400
4gigs DDR2

 

[40sTheme]

I'd look at the PowerColor one; it's not reference and people say it's really quiet and performs very well. I assume you're in the US judging by your avatar.

 

[thilanliyan]

You could probably manage the fans but you might have to do a bit of modding of the fan connector to do it. I'm in the same boat as you...I was sold on this version until I heard about the fan characteristics (ie. one of them is 70mm while the other is 80mm and only one of them is temperature controlled).

 

[P2Mc28]

Hmm... yes, that one is a pretty good choice.

 

[F1shF4t]

The stock cooler at fan speeds quiter than the sonic 4870 will be about the same temps. I would avoid any 4870 which does not push air outside the case cause they do produce a LOT of heat.

OC versions of 4870s come with a different bios with higher fan speeds (well at least my msi did).

I wouldn't worry about the high temps of the stock card, it will idle at about 80C but will only vary little at load cause the fan will ramp up.

BTW its very easy to mod the sonic version to be quiter, just solder a molex conector to the 70mm fan and run it off 5V. Warranty goes bye bye though.

 

[error8]

Originally posted by: Dark Cupcake
I would avoid any 4870 which does not push air outside the case cause they do produce a LOT of heat.

That is what I'm thinking too. Having an extra 170W of heat inside your case, will surely heat up everything, even with good ventilation.
The stock cooler of a 4870 is the best stock cooler I've had on a videocard . You can have whatever temperature you like, if you mess with the fan and you can still manage great temperatures with the fan at low rpm, for those "silent" type of guys.

 

[semisonic9]

I agree, the cooling on the 4870 is very capable. Unfortunately, the stock fan isn't the quietest in the world, so it takes some tweaking to get it both quiet and cool. Realistically, the only "stock" card this generation that's particularly quiet is the gtx 260s. In general, I have to give it up to NV this round as far as heatsinks go. They did a better job than ATI here.

If you want a 4870, and you want it quieter, you're going to have to get in there yourself and get your hands dirty with both the hardware and software.

-S

 

[SlowSpyder]

Why do you care about what the temp of your GPU is? Who cares if it's 85C, AMD says they designed it that way on purpose (less noise, lower fan speed). If you want you can always bump the fan speed a bit. I'd stick with a cooler that removes the heat from your case, like the reference cooler.

 

[P2Mc28]

Hmm... well... I guess you guys are right. I didn't give it much thought... just saw "90c at load?! NO!" and kinda tunnel visioned my way out of what seems to be a perfectly acceptable (and according to the responses, superior) cooling solution.

Now that I'm feeling a lot more confident about the cooling situation, any comments in regards to this portion of my query?

Originally posted by: P2Mc28
Lastly, can I even utilize the 1gb version? I mean, that's the one I want, but is it even practical? I've got a couple 22" monitors at 1680x1050. Since this is their native resolution, that's pretty much it, isn't it? I can't truly scale anything past that? Supreme Commander, however, uses BOTH screens. Which is freaking awesome. It utterly destroys my 7600 GT tho... (...). And it should be noted that Palit's 512 version is cheaper than most reference boards, in addition to the fact that I haven't found the 1gb version for sale yet (but it's on their website).

I mostly play WoW, but I'll be picking up Fallout 3, and Crysis at some point... because, seriously, I haven't played it, I've got this new computer... and, man I just need to seeit. Amirite? Plus, the sequel looks beautiful. Same goes for Far Cry.

Edit:
Some system specs, should they be prudent -
e8400
4gigs DDR2

 

[badnewcastle]

What resolution will you be wanting to run?

I've heard 1680x1050 or higher 1gb is good and it's good for future proofing.

I've also heard 1680x1050 or lower and the 512 would be fine.

 

[F1shF4t]

I've got a 1gig version for 1680*1050. So far i've noticed that Mass Effect seems a lot smoother so is oblivion. Might be just my reaction after getting rid of POS crossfire of 512mg cards. (graphics glitches in some games and massive ammounts of heat)

If you like running high levels of AA (I put my hand up here ) then it probably wouldn't hurt getting the 1 gig card.
But then again don't bother for anything below 1680*1050 res, and if the price difference is big for 1680*1050 res.

 

[Spike]

I personally have a 512mb verison and game at 1680x1050 with no problems. I have played COD4, CS:S, WiC, UT3, and Mass Effect all maxed out and all had great frames. WiC had some slight chop at times that would be annoying had it been a FPS but as a RTS it was perfectly acceptable. I realize all these games are older so they don't stress the card as hard as some of the newer models.

I bought Stalker:clear sky and will install that this weekend so that should be the first real test of the 4870. From everything I read it should run smooth at 1680x1050 mostly maxed with the exception of the uber lighting effects but I will find that out soon.

 

[MarcVenice]

HD4870, producing 170w of heat? You smoking something? Must be the hot air being exhausted by your videocard getting to you ... Do you honestly think the reference cooler gets ALL the hot air out by itself? Decent airflow in a case is needed for ANY higher-end videocard. If you have a fan in the front and in the back, it could handle the powercolor HD4870 easily, and CPU temps etc shouldn't go up much, if at all ...

Seeing how the powercolor is the same price as all the other reference cards, I'd buy the powercolor one, it's factory oc-ed as well. Double win.

 

[error8]

Originally posted by: MarcVenice
HD4870, producing 170w of heat? You smoking something? Must be the hot air being exhausted by your videocard getting to you ... Do you honestly think the reference cooler gets ALL the hot air out by itself? Decent airflow in a case is needed for ANY higher-end videocard. If you have a fan in the front and in the back, it could handle the powercolor HD4870 easily, and CPU temps etc shouldn't go up much, if at all ...

Seeing how the powercolor is the same price as all the other reference cards, I'd buy the powercolor one, it's factory oc-ed as well. Double win.

Ok, so tell us, MARC, what is the power consumption of an 4870????? How much does it suck? It has 2X6 pin connectors , both of them being able to give 75W + the Pci Express slot which has the ability to pump another 75W ( more for Pci Express 2.0 ). 75+75+75 = 225W
Of course, it's not going to consume that much, but AMD puts it around 160-170W.

http://www.guru3d.com/article/...d-4870-1024mb-review/2

And yes, I honestly believe that the" stock cooler gets ALL the hot air out by itself"! Where do you think it's going??? The card is cold if you touch it, with the fan at 40% or more. There is no heat whatsoever being introduced by the card inside the case.

 

[krnmastersgt]

Originally posted by: error8

Originally posted by: MarcVenice
HD4870, producing 170w of heat? You smoking something? Must be the hot air being exhausted by your videocard getting to you ... Do you honestly think the reference cooler gets ALL the hot air out by itself? Decent airflow in a case is needed for ANY higher-end videocard. If you have a fan in the front and in the back, it could handle the powercolor HD4870 easily, and CPU temps etc shouldn't go up much, if at all ...

Seeing how the powercolor is the same price as all the other reference cards, I'd buy the powercolor one, it's factory oc-ed as well. Double win.

Ok, so tell us, MARC, what is the power consumption of an 4870????? How much does it suck? It has 2X6 pin connectors , both of them being able to give 75W + the Pci Express slot which has the ability to pump another 75W ( more for Pci Express 2.0 ). 75+75+75 = 225W
Of course, it's not going to consume that much, but AMD puts it around 160-170W.

http://www.guru3d.com/article/...d-4870-1024mb-review/2

And yes, I honestly believe that the" stock cooler gets ALL the hot air out by itself"! Where do you think it's going??? The card is cold if you touch it, with the fan at 40% or more. There is no heat whatsoever being introduced by the card inside the case.

The way heat disperses from any card means you won't be able to get ALL the hot air out, even if you do get a significant amount out by just the card's cooler alone. Also, it may draw 170w or so, but not all of that is turned into heat, heat is just a byproduct of an inefficient usage of the power the card draws (note that all electronics are inefficient since nothing can operate at 100%+ efficiency).

 

[40sTheme]

I just put the PowerColor one in. Ambient case temps are lower than when I had my 8800GT w/ DuOrb in here, and that ran cooler than this one.
At 1680x1050, yeah, get the 1GB. That way you can use 8xAA more efficiently, too. 8xAA is nearly free on the 1GB IIR ATs article on it correctly.

 

[Phew]

Originally posted by: krnmastersgt
Also, it may draw 170w or so, but not all of that is turned into heat, heat is just a byproduct of an inefficient usage of the power the card draws (note that all electronics are inefficient since nothing can operate at 100%+ efficiency).

All 170W is dissipated as heat.

It's not being converted into potential energy (charging a battery, lifting a weight, etc), it's not being converted into kinetic energy (accelerating some mass). It's all going into moving electrons through an electrical resistance, which dissipates heat.

Your video card is 0% efficient at doing WORK, 100% efficient at generating heat.

First Law of Thermodynamics

 

[P2Mc28]

Originally posted by: Phew
Your video card is 0% efficient at doing WORK, 100% efficient at generating heat.

I was going to point out how you were "wrong," but the fan isn't in debate here, merely the video card itself... so yea... you're right =)

 

[MarcVenice]

Originally posted by: error8

Originally posted by: MarcVenice
HD4870, producing 170w of heat? You smoking something? Must be the hot air being exhausted by your videocard getting to you ... Do you honestly think the reference cooler gets ALL the hot air out by itself? Decent airflow in a case is needed for ANY higher-end videocard. If you have a fan in the front and in the back, it could handle the powercolor HD4870 easily, and CPU temps etc shouldn't go up much, if at all ...

Seeing how the powercolor is the same price as all the other reference cards, I'd buy the powercolor one, it's factory oc-ed as well. Double win.

Ok, so tell us, MARC, what is the power consumption of an 4870????? How much does it suck? It has 2X6 pin connectors , both of them being able to give 75W + the Pci Express slot which has the ability to pump another 75W ( more for Pci Express 2.0 ). 75+75+75 = 225W
Of course, it's not going to consume that much, but AMD puts it around 160-170W.

http://www.guru3d.com/article/...d-4870-1024mb-review/2

And yes, I honestly believe that the" stock cooler gets ALL the hot air out by itself"! Where do you think it's going??? The card is cold if you touch it, with the fan at 40% or more. There is no heat whatsoever being introduced by the card inside the case.

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com...cs-card-review-20.html

Read the chart, full system power draw goes from 184 at idle to 294 under load. That's stressing the GPU only, but you can bet that some other components will draw slightly more power as well. So 110w, thats how much power I think the HD4870 uses.

And, there's a link about thermodynamics, I bet it will also cover heat radiation. There's several ways for heat to travel from one point to another, so theoretically speaking it's inpossible for all heat to be removed. Now, I'm not sure what point on the videocard you're refering to as cool to the touch, but the videocard itself will heat up, and it will also transfer heat into the case. A wild guess would be that the card expells anywhere from 50 to 75% of the heat produced OUT of the case.

Honestly, 100w of heat isn't a whole lot, it can easily be handled by 2 decent casefans, which will have a cfm far above any two slot cooler. Ideal, perhaps not, but you sir, are exagerating, and aftermarket cooling is superior to that of the stock heatsink.

 

[error8]

Originally posted by: MarcVenice

Originally posted by: error8

Originally posted by: MarcVenice
HD4870, producing 170w of heat? You smoking something? Must be the hot air being exhausted by your videocard getting to you ... Do you honestly think the reference cooler gets ALL the hot air out by itself? Decent airflow in a case is needed for ANY higher-end videocard. If you have a fan in the front and in the back, it could handle the powercolor HD4870 easily, and CPU temps etc shouldn't go up much, if at all ...

Seeing how the powercolor is the same price as all the other reference cards, I'd buy the powercolor one, it's factory oc-ed as well. Double win.

Ok, so tell us, MARC, what is the power consumption of an 4870????? How much does it suck? It has 2X6 pin connectors , both of them being able to give 75W + the Pci Express slot which has the ability to pump another 75W ( more for Pci Express 2.0 ). 75+75+75 = 225W
Of course, it's not going to consume that much, but AMD puts it around 160-170W.

http://www.guru3d.com/article/...d-4870-1024mb-review/2

And yes, I honestly believe that the" stock cooler gets ALL the hot air out by itself"! Where do you think it's going??? The card is cold if you touch it, with the fan at 40% or more. There is no heat whatsoever being introduced by the card inside the case.

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com...cs-card-review-20.html

Read the chart, full system power draw goes from 184 at idle to 294 under load. That's stressing the GPU only, but you can bet that some other components will draw slightly more power as well. So 110w, thats how much power I think the HD4870 uses.

And, there's a link about thermodynamics, I bet it will also cover heat radiation. There's several ways for heat to travel from one point to another, so theoretically speaking it's inpossible for all heat to be removed. Now, I'm not sure what point on the videocard you're refering to as cool to the touch, but the videocard itself will heat up, and it will also transfer heat into the case. A wild guess would be that the card expells anywhere from 50 to 75% of the heat produced OUT of the case.

Honestly, 100w of heat isn't a whole lot, it can easily be handled by 2 decent casefans, which will have a cfm far above any two slot cooler. Ideal, perhaps not, but you sir, are exagerating, and aftermarket cooling is superior to that of the stock heatsink.

You are just making the difference between the power consumption in idle and power consumption in full load. You forgot that this card consumes quite a lot in idle too. What you have pointed here is like the card sucks 0 watts in idle, which is of course not true. So yeah, it draws 100 W under full load over the idle power draw, so that will still take it to around 160W-170W.

And yes, heat is also transferring through radiation, inside your case. But for the card to radiate heat it has to be hot and if it isn't hot and is just a tad worm, then it radiates just a very small quantity of heat. If the stock fan spins at 45-65% full load ,like I've forced it, then the card is just a bit warm, so the vast majority of heat it's getting exhausted outside the case ( not 100% of course ). If I would have let the fan in peace, then the card would have been a very hot brick that would heat up the case through radiation.

And yes, aftermarket cooling solutions are superior to stock, I never negated this. But it's very efficient for the videocard and less efficient for the rest of the system. Keep in mind that the cpu is right above the videocard and all that extra heat coming from the card is sucked into the cpu cooler. Trust me, I know, I just had a volt modded 8800 GT with an S1 on it and I had 70-72 C full load on my cpu, now I have 62-65 C at the same ambient temperature and with a very good ventilation in my Antec 300.

 

[MarcVenice]

so you think the card draws 60-70w doing nothing? In idle mode, that of course is not true either.

Tbh, my 8800gts is a dualslot cooler, and it doesnt exhaust much air out of the back at all, barely enough to make a piece of toiletpaper move. It doesn't feel all that warm either. I think the consensus is that if you're not pushing your overclock to the limits, heatwise, you will be fine with a aftermarket cooler, even if it doesn't directly exhaust the hot air out of the back.