retrospooty
Platinum Member
- Apr 3, 2002
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Agreed... Also factors were Obama's intelligence, charisma, and Palin's dumbassetry and oh yeah... The economy...
Its funny, look at all the blame, it was this or that... Stupid. It was a combo of a lot of things... Most of which are mentioned in this thread. It was no one thing.
If Palin was just a dumbmass it would have been fine.
If just the economy sucked it would have been fine.
If Obama just had a great campaign it would have been fine.
If Obama just had great intelligence and charisma it would have been fine.
If McCain just ran a idiotic campaign it would have been fine.
If McCain didnt throw out his once great principles it would have been fine.
If none of the above was true and the only issue was GWB assing up of America it would have been fine.
All of the above happened and therefore there was no winning,
Yeah Pro-Jo, if you check the poll numbers McCain lost his brief lead after the Katie Couric interview which happened several days before the financial crisis hit. He was already going down, that just buried him.
I think in most cases the VP doesn't matter in anywhere but the VP's home state. In this case though she was a never ending source of negative publicity. For the most part I agree that people vote on the President and not the VP, but there's just no way it helped McCain to have the news headline every day be "The woman McCain picked is a complete babbling chimp".
You do raise a good point however, the question of if picking anyone else would have given him more votes. Hard to say about Romney. He's a genuinely unlikable character, but by blind luck had McCain picked him it might have helped with the financial crisis.
Shit I hope Palin never goes away. I freaking love her, she's comedic gold. Frankly I hope the GOP runs her as their nominee every god damn election until she dies.
The best part of watching the GOP meltdown is seeing the hardcore social conservatives rally around Palin, while the moderates and fiscal conservatives are left out to dry.
The best part of watching the GOP meltdown is seeing the hardcore social conservatives rally around Palin, while the moderates and fiscal conservatives are left out to dry.
ProfJohn
Lifer
- Jul 28, 2006
- 18,161
- 7
- 0
McCain held his last lead in the RCP average on Sept 16.
The Couric interview happened AFTER that date.
McCain was already losing at that point. Palin could have came out and said anything she wanted and it would not have mattered.
I don't know why you guys can't seem to understand that concept.
BTW the Couric interview mess happened at the same time as the whole bailout debate. Which one do you think was more relevant in the minds of voters on election day?
retrospooty
Platinum Member
- Apr 3, 2002
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- Oct 30, 2000
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People vote based on which candiate promises to best situation for them and if they feel they are better off now than they the "incumbant" took over.
The tanking of the economy convinced people that Obama promises were better than the Republican track record.
The tanking of the economy convinced people that Obama promises were better than the Republican track record.
I have some advice for Governor Palin: Go back to Alaska and STFU. That goes for Todd, Skipper, Flapjack, Pikachu, Mooseburger and Trig (along with the rest of the Palin clan, assuming i missed any).
:thumbsdown:
Her chances of getting elected to anything anywhere outside of Alaska are nil. Only there does her socialistic oil bribe money have any effect whatsoever on the voters.
:thumbsdown:
Her chances of getting elected to anything anywhere outside of Alaska are nil. Only there does her socialistic oil bribe money have any effect whatsoever on the voters.
ProfJohn
Lifer
- Jul 28, 2006
- 18,161
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The bolded part is incorrect.
The Palin-Couric interview popped up around Sept 24/25. Google it and that is the first hits you get.
McCain suspended his campaign at the same time Sept 25.
The Fed's took over Fannie and Freddie on Sept 16. The week of the interview was the week that the bailout package was front and center.
The Ice Queen cometh...
Don't count Sarah Palin out. 69% of Republican votors say she helped McCain, and 64% think she should be their next presidential nominee.
The If the GOP dutifully trots her out for a couple of elections, this should ensure a Democratic White House for a generation or so.
The 21st century Republicans lesson to be learned - if you govern like you have no opposition, very soon you'll have plenty.
Don't count Sarah Palin out. 69% of Republican votors say she helped McCain, and 64% think she should be their next presidential nominee.
The If the GOP dutifully trots her out for a couple of elections, this should ensure a Democratic White House for a generation or so.
The 21st century Republicans lesson to be learned - if you govern like you have no opposition, very soon you'll have plenty.
Thump553
Lifer
- Jun 2, 2000
- 12,839
- 2,625
- 136
I was watching a post-election analysis on Fox News and they said exactly the same thing eskimospy said-that their charts showed McCain's decline began on Friday, with the release of the Couric-Palin interview. McCain's economic gaffes (fundamentals are sound, suspend campaign, dog and pony photo op, etc) began the next week and accelerated the decline that had already begun.
I have respect for McCain and everything he has done for our country. However, the "Palin/heartbeat away from the Presidency" thing made me and many other life long Republicans & independents look seriously at Obama. From that point on, Barack just kept looking better and better. I'd be willing to bet that Palin cost McCain more votes than anyone realizes.
The fake suspension never looked like anything but a transparent political stunt. The public didn't buy it, McCain ended up looking silly, and Obama looked like the calm, cool mature one.
But, the main thing in my mind was the moment when McCain decided to not make a hard break with Bush. Had he come out and said something like:
"I have had many doubts about the way this Administration has conducted it's affairs these past seven years. I have not spoken against them in large part as we have been at war, and I feel that it is improper to critize the sitting President at such a time. With the end of this Administration in sight, I feel it is now time for me to speak out.".
Then he should have laid out something in terms of a comprehensive strategy towards the war, the economy, and the like that was distinctly different than what Bush has done. He couldn't do that, however, because the people he had working for him were either ones responsible for the mistakes, or they thought there was nothing wrong with what Bush had done. Once McCain decided to stay close to Bush, it was all over. Everything else was simply window dressing.
The fake suspension never looked like anything but a transparent political stunt. The public didn't buy it, McCain ended up looking silly, and Obama looked like the calm, cool mature one.
But, the main thing in my mind was the moment when McCain decided to not make a hard break with Bush. Had he come out and said something like:
"I have had many doubts about the way this Administration has conducted it's affairs these past seven years. I have not spoken against them in large part as we have been at war, and I feel that it is improper to critize the sitting President at such a time. With the end of this Administration in sight, I feel it is now time for me to speak out.".
Then he should have laid out something in terms of a comprehensive strategy towards the war, the economy, and the like that was distinctly different than what Bush has done. He couldn't do that, however, because the people he had working for him were either ones responsible for the mistakes, or they thought there was nothing wrong with what Bush had done. Once McCain decided to stay close to Bush, it was all over. Everything else was simply window dressing.
I'm sorry, I meant the Charles Gibson interview where she was ignorant and incoherent. The Couric interview was just the icing on the cake.
You cant be this naive to believe Palin had a significant sway with the voters.
As a well known campaign advisor once said "It is the economy stupid".
When the banks tanked and the outlook on the economy grew dim. Obama rose in the polls and never looked back. McCains campaign's response was pitiful at best, destructive at worst. Palin is a nice scapegoat for republicans too blinded by their failures. And a media who failed in their jobs at first and had egg on their face to pile on now.
Let the infighting begin. When it is finished the party can think about how to reorganize itself. Until then they will continue to flounder.
I think that you are being naive.
Of course the economy had a major effect. Not a single person on either side has denied that. However, what a very big majority of those on the right are unable to admit is that the selection of Palin was a major factor also.
She proved to be completely inept on the issues and she proved to be a dividing, polarizing fun-duh-mentalist to everyone not to the far right.
Her selection was a major nail in the coffin. I'm not sure if it was as big of a nail as the economic downturn....but it wasn't too far behind it.
I agree. I like a little entertainment with my politics. Of course I'd regret saying this if by some miracle she actually won something.
I'm fine if she just screws with Alaska, but I don't want her in the Senate or Presidency helping to make laws for the rest of us.
Inspector Jihad
Lifer
- Apr 17, 2005
- 13,465
- 3
- 81
Who the hell cares, really? When was the last time we had a VP worth a shit, and/or one who could go on to be President? Oh, wait, that has only happened once in the past 30 years when George Bush Sr was elected.
Nelson Rockefeller = yeah right. Walter Mondale = Failed. Dan Quayle = Failed. Al Gore = Failed twice. Dick Cheney would never bother running, for obvious reasons. Joe Biden already failed once, and I seriously doubt he will run again. Besides, he is on track to be the next Dan Quayle with some of the stuff that comes out of his mouth anyway.
Does anyone here really believ the VP position actually has that much influence on Presidential policy? Shoot, the only memorable VP involvement I can think of in the past couple presidential terms is the lame duck "Energy" Bill/$$ bonus check for oil cos with Cheney's name on it. What did Al Gore do besides help teach the oldies in government about what all these fancy words like "internet" and "computer" mean and make a whitehouse website?
Nelson Rockefeller = yeah right. Walter Mondale = Failed. Dan Quayle = Failed. Al Gore = Failed twice. Dick Cheney would never bother running, for obvious reasons. Joe Biden already failed once, and I seriously doubt he will run again. Besides, he is on track to be the next Dan Quayle with some of the stuff that comes out of his mouth anyway.
Does anyone here really believ the VP position actually has that much influence on Presidential policy? Shoot, the only memorable VP involvement I can think of in the past couple presidential terms is the lame duck "Energy" Bill/$$ bonus check for oil cos with Cheney's name on it. What did Al Gore do besides help teach the oldies in government about what all these fancy words like "internet" and "computer" mean and make a whitehouse website?
retrospooty
Platinum Member
- Apr 3, 2002
- 2,031
- 74
- 86
Well done, you're our own Jon Stewart.
Note the classic PJ FUD in the second quote. He didn't say anything, just asked a question.Originally posted by: Craig234
Well done, you're our own Jon Stewart.
Quick, someone bring back the Bernie Ward thread!
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