Palestinians want war with Israel

[AndrewR]

Apparently: Two possibly three Israeli soldiers lynched.

Yes, those Palestinians are innocent lambs for the slaughter at the hands of the lion of Israel, DABANSHEE. Just like the American-born rabbi that was killed recently.

The fallout from this atrocity will be exceptionally severe, I think.

 

[StageLeft]

I don't care to point fingers at either side, but what I will say is this:

When the death of a mere 100 people (yes 100 is mere considering what the repercussions will be) is enough to precipitate two nations (at least - because others will be forced to choose sides as well) into a massively armed conflict I feel I have to say "shame on you" to both. This is another goddamned religion/turf war crap situation which escalates into a war?

Damn, at least Western nations won't go to war over something like that. For us it would only really be money...

And I won't say money is more important than religion, but I say it again: if a war can potentially be started over something like this then the peace process was not tried enough.

This is akin to my child in school being hit by another child and then myself and the father of the other child both decide to fight to the death.

 

[403Forbidden]

<< This is akin to my child in school being hit by another child and then myself and the father of the other child both decide to fight to the death >>




No. It's more akin to someone moving into your house, and telling you that the only place
you can live in is in the closet...and on top of that, harrasing you even when you
stay in the closet.

 

[DABANSHEE]

So they should, anyone who willingly joins a racist (there's no doubt about it, the whole concept of Zionism is racist) occupying army that goes arround killing children &amp; driving a million people from their homes, shouldn't be exempt from their own deaths.

They could have always gone back to Hungary, Poland, Ney York or where ever else their parents came from &amp; leave Palestine to the Palestinians.

You have to remember they are an occupying army, so why should Palestinians treat them any different to the way the Polish underground treated German soldiers.

Remember they are soldiers, not civilians, like which the Israelis are killing (I'm referring to the pogrom like killing where Israeli Jewish Youths stormed an Israeli Arab village &amp; started beating people up causing havoc, the Israeli Army came in then, but then went &amp; started killing the Arabs who were proctecting their own houses &amp; families, not the rampaging Israeli Jewish youths, This also happened yesturday).

The fact is soldiers are legitamate targets. If don't want to be a legitamate target, don't join the army.

 

[DABANSHEE]

ou can tell though, who are the honourable fighters in all of this, every time an Israel soldier (who are legitimate targets) is killed the Israelis take revenge by killing civilians. It happened in Lebanon all the time, where Lebanese militia men managed a succesful attack on the occupying Israeli army, the Israelis would then go &amp; bomb local villages full of civilians as revenge, I'll bet they'l do it again this time.

Hey, isnt that what the Nazis used to do every time the underground made a successful attack on the Germans, The Nazis would then take revenge on the local citzenry.

See the racist Zionist govt obviously learnt lessons from the racist Nazi govt.

 

[Cosmo]

andrewR
Your ignorance is apparent from your choice of heading. Palestinians already have war with Israel since Israel is occupying the West Bank. Those cities mentioned in the link: Nablus, Ramallah, Jenin and so on are all occupied by Israeli troops.

I think it's obvious that the people of any occupied country would find any means of fighting of the oppressors.

Also, since there's been a lot of Israel threads lately the picture I get is that the american news media is heavily biased in the reporting. Is this the case? Maybe you should try to use the internet to find other news resources than american.

 

[AndrewR]

<< This is another goddamned religion/turf war crap situation which escalates into a war? >>


There are few ways to p!ss someone off that are more effective than attacking their religion. The Palestinians were the first to broach that with their desecration of a Jewish sanctuary to which Jewish settlers have responded in kind (unfortunately).

Capturing soldiers under color of state authority and then relinquishing them to a mob for summary execution is hardly the work of a respectable government authority. They will reap their reward for that.

DABANSHEE: Your continued comparison of Israelis with Nazis is so grotesquely offensive that it doesn't even merit response.

Those poor defenseless Palestinians with automatic rifles, grenades, and firebombs...

 

[Raspewtin]

I don't see how they can resolve this issue re: Jersualem without one party feeling like a winner, and one feeling like a loser. It would seem armed military conflict with Isreal would be pointless, as the Israeli military is so much stronger than Palestine. I wish I could say I thought neutrally in this, but it's so hard not to root for the underdog.

 

[nickdakick]

Dabanshee


<< anyone who willingly joins a racist >>


Damn get informed before posting bullsh|t like that.
There is compulsory military service in Israel !

 

[AndrewR]

Hey, Cosmo, READ THE FSCKING LINK. That's basically a quote from an Israeli official, which is why I placed it there.

 

[Cosmo]

What is also striking in this conflict is that the Israeli army during the last days have been killing Israeli citizens.

During the recent development after the elections in Serbia it was often regarded that not even Milosevic, who is generally thought of as a war criminal, would try to use the army against the Belgrad citizens. It would have been an outrage.

Well, I read today in the morning newspaper that a dozen Arab-Israelians (that is Israelian citizens) have been killed during the last days. That is really offensive, to use the army against your own citizens.

 

[DABANSHEE]

&quot;DABANSHEE: Your continued comparison of Israelis with Nazis is so grotesquely offensive that it doesn't even merit response.&quot;


Ah, Andrew, are you saying that Zionism isnt a racist concept? Are you also saying that the Israeli policy of taking revenge on the local citizeny whenever one of its occupying soldiers is killed, isnt similar to the Nazi policy of taking revenge on the local citizenry whenever a occupying German soldier is killed?

There are few ways to p!ss someone off that are more effective than attacking their religion. The Palestinians were the first to broach that with their desecration of a Jewish sanctuary to which Jewish settlers have responded in kind (unfortunately).

How many times have I had to say this! Joseph's Tomb is not a Jewish shrine, its a Muslem shrine &amp; has been for a thousand years, The onle people who consider it a Jewish Shrine are that troublmaking (they like moving into A Palestinians house while the Palestinian is out, then claiming it as a settlement, of course the Israeli authorities do nothing) radical Orthadox Kach sect (basically loud mouthed Jewish New Yorkers, like that Lieberman bloke), who moved in there in 1980 &amp; drove the muslem clerics out with their Uzis. They then cemented their occupation by buiding a seminary &amp; some fortifications. It was the seminary &amp; the fortifications that the Palestinians pulled down, they did not touch the actual tomb.

 

[Anybody]

You dont volenteer to serve in Israel... you grow up in Israel..you serve the army.. I know..one of my net admins for our office over there is serving his weeks right now. =< He doesn't hate palestinians... he just has to serve because its the law.

 

[Cosmo]

andrewR

USE QOUTES THEN!

Yes, those Palestinians are innocent lambs for the slaughter at the hands of the lion of Israel.

I couldn't find that one in the link either so I'm guessing you were stating your opinion in the title after all.

 

[StageLeft]

andrew R The Palestinian Police did not voluntarily release these soldiers to the public. They were stormed by a whack of citizens!!

everyone

I'll continue to read this and try to keep my apparently ignorant (!) views to a minimum because admittedly I do not really understand the situation and I have a tendency to call things as I see them very quickly...

I will agree with dabanshee (I think its hard not to) that the Israelies shooting on citizens is quite disgusting. I saw footage of a soldier popping out from behind a bus and just randomly firing on a crowd...I suppose the crowd was hurling rocks at them though...but shooting on un-armed citizenes should be anyone's last resort.

 

[Double Trouble]

skoorb,



<< Damn, at least Western nations won't go to war over something like that. >>



Ummmm.... my oh my how quickly we seem to forget. Do you know what caused WWI? Wars don't just happen because of 'big things', they happen because of a combination of little things, and often one single incident, no matter how trivial it may seem might be just the catalyst needed.

I'm not really on either side of this conflict, just an observer. For those that say the Israeli's are killing 'civilians', remember that since the Palestinians don't have an official &quot;army&quot; or armed forces, technically everyone of them are 'civilians'. However, someone armed with a machine gun or rocket launcher to me is a not a 'civilian'.

Banshee:

<< the whole concept of Zionism is racist >>

. Zionism is about religion you dope, not race.

 

[DABANSHEE]

&quot;Damn get informed before posting bullsh|t like that.
There is compulsory military service in Israel !&quot;

The simple fact is that the fast majority of Israelis Jews are immigrants or the children of immigrants, which means that they qualify as dual citizens. I know this because my mum's a English/Australian dual citizen &amp; my father's Dutch, as such I can get a English or Dutch passport whenever I want. The simple fact is the vast majority of Israelis are in the same situation. Actually every year thousands of Israeli school-leavers do go back to the countries of their parents birth just to avoid military service. The odds are that at least 3 of those 4 Israeli soldiers also qualified as dual citizens, they therefore did not have to be in the army.

. Zionism is about religion you dope, not race.

The whole concept of Zionism is that Jews (whether religious or not, half are not) have the right to go drive someone else out of their home &amp; country &amp; take over their home, just because its their birthright. If that's not racism, I don't know what is.

 

[Double Trouble]

Cosmo: <<What is also striking in this conflict is that the Israeli army during the last days have been killing Israeli citizens.>>

If people commit violent acts against other people, they have to expect there will be violent retributions. If Israeli citizens of Arab descent are siding with the Palestinians and committing violent crimes (in other words behaving like enemies of the Israelis), then they are dealt with like enemies of the Israelis.

 

[StageLeft]

tagej I was remembering the cuases of the WW's when I made that statement, and I appreciate that the world has changed quite a bit in the last 50 years. To think now that if Germany went to war we'd be right beside them in the trenches!

 

[AndrewR]

Skoorb:

<< The Palestinian Police did not voluntarily release these soldiers to the public. They were stormed by a whack of citizens!! >>


Oh, please -- don't tell me you believe that for a minute. I'm sure the police just put up a huge fight and all. Maybe they even forced the crowd to unlock the cells by themselves!

Also, as far as throwing stones is concerned, I also saw on TV the other day that Palestinians are using slings to hurl their stones. Keep in mind that slings were used in military units in ancient times and are quite effective at propelling a stone at a killing velocity. They are not as effective as bullets, but the stones that are used in slings are referred to as &quot;bullets&quot;. Personally, if someone were slinging stones at me, I'd be inclined to shoot them. If you feel it's not a threat, please allow someone to pelt you in the face with one and tell us how it went.

If they don't want to be shot, stop throwing bombs and rocks (or shooting). It's really fairly simple. There was brief interview on TV last night with a Palestinian man shot by the Israelis as he was walking home from work (not involved in attacks on soldiers). What was interesting is that he didn't appear to be mad at the Israelis but at his own fellow Palestinians for wasting what progress they had made in recent years. A noble and sage perspective for someone with a hole is leg.

 

[Cosmo]

tagej I think you agree that the the police force should deal with a country's citizens and not the armed forces.

 

[StageLeft]

AndrewR, no I don't think they put up a fight...but I don't think they just handed them over per se. I think they were &quot;stormed&quot;, they may have stood aside but I don't think they wished it to happen.

 

[AndrewR]

<< Yes, those Palestinians are innocent lambs for the slaughter at the hands of the lion of Israel. >>


Cosmo, that's a religious allusion to Judeo-Christian theology and was a sarcastic comment on my part. Guess you missed that.

My opinion is that, yes, it appears the Palestinians are pushing for full conflict with Israel which they will lose by an enormous margin and destroy whatever chances they had of coming to a peaceful coexistence with the Israelis.

DABANSHEE: You've apparently forgotten about the Holocaust (or are you one of those people that says it never happened?). If you examine Zionism in light of that event, and no other race of people has ever experienced the annihilation of several million of its members in a systematic program, I'd say it's entirely reasonable to feel that the Jews deserve a homeland. Considering that the history of the region is so muddled over the centuries, you could also argue that the Jews are entitled to the land because they were exiled so long ago and also had a sizeable population there during Roman times (which, coincidentally, is before the formation for Islam -- who is the invader?). Examining the history of the region for the last 60 years is hardly appropriate.

 

[403Forbidden]

somebody better wakeup before they get pushed into the sea

 

[Cosmo]

AndrewR

If they don't want to be shot, stop throwing bombs and rocks (or shooting). It's really fairly simple.

What do you think they should do then? They are being occupied. If my country was I know I'd be fighting back with everything I got. And I would most certainly bitch about getting shot by the invaders when doing so. So why are you siding with the occupational forces?