Palestinians protesters confront French FM in Gaza

[JEDIYoda]

So lets get this straight the Palestinians terrorize the French President due to statements she did NOT make??

Now we come to find that Hamas will not let the Red Cross visit this captured soldier?

Then we see that as usual Hamas wants hundreds to be set free in exchange for this one soldier....how does that work exactly?
Are the soldiers that Hamas use so inferior that thousands of soldiers equal one soldier???

So the EU still considers Hamas a Terrorist group! I thought Lemon law said that was going to change....hmmmm

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110121/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_palestinians_france

EREZ CROSSING, Gaza Strip – Palestinian protesters hurled eggs Friday at the French foreign minister during a visit to Gaza and narrowly missed hitting her with a shoe because they mistakenly believed she had called the capture of an Israeli soldier a "war crime."

The remark had actually been made by the soldier's father after meeting the French minister a day earlier in his campaign to win the release of his son, Gilad Schalit, who was captured in a 2006 cross-border raid by militants with ties to Hamas.

A member of the minister's entourage was hit in the head and later examined at an Israeli hospital, according to the spokeswoman's office at Barzilai Medical Center in the city of Ashkelon, just north of Gaza. Spokeswoman Lea Malul identified her as Valerie Hoffenberg, a French envoy involved in the Mideast peace process.

Dozens of protesters, relatives of Palestinians held in Israeli prisons, were waiting for Michele Alliot-Marie as she crossed from Israel into Gaza through the Erez Crossing, lying on the road and jumping on her vehicle. They pelted her motorcade with eggs and lobbed a shoe.

Hamas police eventually dispersed those protesters, but more gathered outside a United Nations office in Gaza City that was her first stop in the Palestinian territory, and later followed her to a nearby hospital, pelting her motorcade with eggs. AP Television News footage showed Alliot-Marie narrowly dodging a shoe thrown by a protester as she climbed into a jeep under heavy guard.

Schalit, the captive soldier, is an Israeli-French dual national and France has repeatedly called for his release.

Alliot-Marie made no public statement Thursday after meeting with Schalit's parents in Jerusalem, but the soldier's father, Noam Schalit, said afterward that the minister had called on Hamas to allow the Red Cross to visit his son for the first time. He referred to his son's capture as a "war crime."

The Palestinians mistakenly linked the comments to Alliot-Marie, although she did not say anything publicly before or after the meeting.

In Paris, a French Foreign Ministry spokesman confirmed that Alliot-Marie was not the source of the comments.

Alliot-Marie's visit to Gaza was the first by a French foreign minister since 2005, ministry spokesman Bernard Valero said. "She is in Gaza today precisely to mark France's engagement in favor of the Gazan population."

Earlier, Hamas spokesman Sami Abu Zuhri said the statements attributed to Allio-Marie reflected a "total bias toward Israel" and ignored the thousands of Palestinians held in Israeli prisons. "They are the true prisoners of war," he said.

Hamas is demanding that Israel release hundreds of Hamas prisoners, including militants behind deadly attacks against Israelis, in return for Schalit. Talks facilitated by a German mediator have produced no result. Schalit has been seen by no one but his captors since 2006. A videotape released in 2009 showed him talking and reading a newspaper.

In keeping with the policy of the European Union, which considers Hamas a terror organization, Alliot-Marie did not meet with Hamas officials during her half-day visit.

Speaking at a French cultural center in Gaza, Alliot-Marie called for the establishment of a Palestinian state and security for Israel. She also called on Israel to fully lift all restrictions on goods and people coming and out of Gaza.

 

[Freshgeardude]

the capture of gilad shalit is a war crime.

the prisoners in israeli prisons are there because they are responsible for the deaths of israeli citizens or plotted to do so.


this is just another example of muslim over-reaction.


how about the thousands who rioted across the world because that pastor in that small church in florida only threatened to burn the koran.

Muslims probably have burned the bible, jewish or christian, and you dont have the same over-reacted outcry.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Muslims probably have burned the bible, jewish or christian, and you dont have the same over-reacted outcry.

Ya,... Probably

 

[Lemon law]

The capture of Galid Shalit is not a war crime, its just part of the long history of tit for tat violence dating back even before the Formation of Israel.

I also wonder why the French PM even bothered to visit Gaza is she was not willing to talk to the democratically elected leaders of Gaza.

 

[JEDIYoda]

I also wonder why the French PM even bothered to visit Gaza is she was not willing to talk to the democratically elected leaders of Gaza.

So Lemon you do not consider the "democratically elected " leaders of gaza a terrorist group?

The rest of the world does. The UN......the EU.....the US...etc

 

[Freshgeardude]

The capture of Galid Shalit is not a war crime, its just part of the long history of tit for tat violence dating back even before the Formation of Israel.

I also wonder why the French PM even bothered to visit Gaza is she was not willing to talk to the democratically elected leaders of Gaza.

he is a prisoner of war. Hamas has not followed international guidelines for war, aka civilian warfare, and no red cross for Gilad. that make it a war crime.


Why the **FM (you wrote PM, no big deal but fixing your typo) didnt talk? maybe because the EU recognizes hamas as a terrorist organization like the rest of the developed world.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilad_Shalit#International_law

Since 2006, the Red Cross (ICRC) has repeatedly asked Hamas to allow visits by the ICRC to ascertain Shalit's conditions of detention and treatment, but Hamas refused the requests. An ICRC representative said that under international humanitarian law Shalit is entitled to regular and unconditional contacts with his family.[85] On 25 June 2007, the Israeli human rights organization B'Tselem issued a statement saying "international humanitarian law absolutely prohibits taking and holding a person by force in order to compel the enemy to meet certain demands, while threatening to harm or kill the person if the demands are not met", and thus holding Shalit as a hostage to their demands is a war crime.[86] B'Tselem also noted that denying access to ICRC visitations is also a violation of international law.[86] Israeli NGO Monitor said that Shalit's abductors breach several provisions of the Third Geneva Convention, e.g., the right to humane treatment (Art. 13); the right to have knowledge of a POW's location (Art. 23); and the right to unfettered access to the Red Cross (Art. 126).[87] Human Rights Watch has also stated that Hamas authorities are obligated by the laws of war to allow Shalit to correspond with his family, and noted that three letters and a voice recording cannot be counted as regular correspondence. HRW has also called to receive visits from the ICRC and said that prolonged incommunicado detention of Shalit is cruel and inhumane and may amount to torture.[88]
A U.N. fact-finding mission headed by Judge Richard Goldstone assigned to investigate the Gaza War, which released its report in September 2009, called for Shalit to be released.[18] In June 2010, on the fourth anniversary of Shalit's capture, Human Rights Watch made a statement describing Hamas' treatment of Shalit as "cruel and inhuman" saying it illustrates the UN definition of torture and violates the international rules of war by prohibiting him from having contact with his family or visits from the Red Cross.[89]

 

[Lemon law]

Israel hardly respects human rights and international law either. As it is Israel still stands accused of war crimes in Gaza, and Israel is also conducting an illegal blockade of Gaza. Israel also has no right of presence in either Gaza or the West Bank for 43 years running.

The only debate is which is the worst terrorist organization, Israel or Hamas?

 

[Zebo]

Then we see that as usual Hamas wants hundreds to be set free in exchange for this one soldier....how does that work exactly?

Because Israel is stupid enough to do it in the past is how it works instead of killing the terrorists they have in their prisons.

Like with anything you reward bad behavior expect to get more.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Yet another Israeli/Palestinian or Palestinian/Israeli circle jerk thread.

 

[Freshgeardude]

Israel hardly respects human rights and international law either. As it is Israel still stands accused of war crimes in Gaza, and Israel is also conducting an illegal blockade of Gaza. Israel also has no right of presence in either Gaza or the West Bank for 43 years running.

The only debate is which is the worst terrorist organization, Israel or Hamas?

Yup. By protecting their own citizens from constant rocket and mortar attack, they fight a terrorist organization that hides amongst civilians, firing rockets from schools, mosques, and headquarters in the basement of the hospital.

A blockade as legal as the US's during the Cuban missile crisis.


And land won in war, land not desired by its neighbors.

Yea Israel is the criminal, not the rocket launching, war criminal group

 

[Lemon law]

To FGD,

Its hardly worth engaging in pissing contests with you. Its the international community that will be the ultimate deciders, and already the tide is strongly turning against Israel.

And even if you want to cite the fact that maybe Hamas is criminal as Israel, it still does not explain why Israel makes no concessions to Fatah in the West Bank or refuses
to grant the very Palestinian Statehood now demanded.

The Israeli labor party has already withdrawn from the Bozo Netanyuhu coalition, and everyone inside and outside of Israel knows that Israel is on a road to ruin until it tells it crazy settler parties there days are over.

As for land by military conquest being legitimate, that was illegal by the very UN doctrine that created the State of Israel in 1948. No nation in the entire world, the US included, recognizes any Israeli right to land by conquest.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Its hardly worth engaging in pissing contests with you. Its the international community that will be the ultimate deciders, and already the tide is strongly turning against Israel.

You keep stating this without providing any proof.

• BLockade running w/ Naval ships as escorts
• Embargo against Israel
• Egypt opening up borders

Does the above ring any bells.

By the way; where is Abbas when the demands by the Palestinians are met for discussions.

Where is Abbas when the Israeli government states that there should be talks or the government will fail.

Or does Abbas not want peace; we know that Hamas does not.

Maybe the Palestinians will choose to have leadership that will lead them to statehood instead of being refugees.

 

[Freshgeardude]

To FGD,

Its hardly worth engaging in pissing contests with you. Its the international community that will be the ultimate deciders, and already the tide is strongly turning against Israel.

And even if you want to cite the fact that maybe Hamas is criminal as Israel, it still does not explain why Israel makes no concessions to Fatah in the West Bank or refuses
to grant the very Palestinian Statehood now demanded.


The Israeli labor party has already withdrawn from the Bozo Netanyuhu coalition, and everyone inside and outside of Israel knows that Israel is on a road to ruin until it tells it crazy settler parties there days are over.

As for land by military conquest being legitimate, that was illegal by the very UN doctrine that created the State of Israel in 1948. No nation in the entire world, the US included, recognizes any Israeli right to land by conquest.

i love your play on words. to think israel is on any level of hamas is ridiculous, Israel actually cares for its citizens. and it doesn't rule as a dictatorship.

Israel made no concessions? really. so for 10 months, the settlement freeze, was nothing right? ofcourse so, because if the PA didnt act on it, it must not have been important.


Israel is at the table waiting. israel is more than happy to draw and decide on borders with the PA, but guess what? the PA doesnt even have plans of their own, they just expect israel to hand over as much land as possible, and if they dont get what they want, they act like a 3 year old baby holding its breath to its parents to try and get what it wants.

but lets not forget, the baby will force itself to breath, and i wont be surprised if the baby passes out before.


israel is not on the losing end here, the PA is. every day settlers build on land they claim is theirs. its going to be indisputable at a certain point because the israelis are going to be generations on the spot of land and then the PA will cry that Israel didnt play it fair.


About the land gained by military conquest:

the Sinai: if it was so illegal for them to have, how come the US backed a proposal that Egypt also signed, which gave back the land to egypt.

i mean, from egypt's point of view, if its still their land, they were signing a treaty with Israel and technically not gaining anything from it.

they could have brought up a UN complaint about it and gotten the land back that way, but instead, they signed a treaty with israel.

why would they do that then? Why would the US backbone the treaty of "land for peace"? huh?

How come Syria is interested in getting the Golan back from israel for peace??

from your point of view, its still syrian land.



West Bank: how confusing this peice of land is.
from the UN partition plan, this peice of land was not to go to Jordan or to Israel.

but after 1948 and the war of independence, it was somehow Jordanian territory?

only 1 country in the world recognized it being jordanian territory, that being the UK.

Not even lebanon, syria, egypt, Saudi Arabia.

NONE.

yet no palestinian government internally demanded autonomy.

so who did the land belong to?

well according to the UN, it was designated for an Arab state.

Israel was quick to declare its independence, may 14th 1948.

yet, you want to say, that no palestinian government from 1948-1967 declared independence? 19 years.


now here comes 1967, another war. this time, israel was better prepared and made sure to strike at the right time, giving it the nickname "six hour war", although its truely named "six day war"

Israel did not plan or even think about taking the west bank.

but events happened and the jordanians pulled back to the jordanian river.

israel occupied it.


and now for the treaty with Jordan.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel–Jordan_peace_treaty#Article_24:_Claims_commission

Article 3: Borders

Delineate and recognize the international boundary between Israel and Jordan with reference to the boundary definition under the Mandate, without prejudice to the status of any territories that came under Israeli military government control in 1967 (paragraph 2). Peace Island came under Jordanian military control, but Israel maintains administration and civilian presence.

and according to the MANDATE

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Mandate_of_Palestine

this was signed by jordan, the previous owner of the west bank, lost in war, and gave rights to israel.



See LL, I have pure facts to support my position. what you have is your drugged up mind that believes an international community is going to embargo israel into destruction.

Guess what, 4.5% growth in GDP for israel in 2010. Seems like whatever they are doing over there is working. what did the US have? 3% growth.


Come back when you start linking real websites with real citations.

 

[hal2kilo]

Yet another Israeli/Palestinian or Palestinian/Israeli circle jerk thread.

Yep, never participate. Just wish the state of Israel never happened.

 

[Howard]

Israel hardly respects human rights and international law either. As it is Israel still stands accused of war crimes in Gaza, and Israel is also conducting an illegal blockade of Gaza. Israel also has no right of presence in either Gaza or the West Bank for 43 years running.

For someone who prides themselves on levelheadedness, your argument is that "they did it too"?

The only debate is which is the worst terrorist organization, Israel or Hamas?

No it's not. Your tenuous grip on logic is slipping.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Just wish the state of Israel never happened.

Both Israel and Palestine have the right to statehood

Yep, never participate.

See you in the next Lemon Law or JEDIYoda or Freshgeardude Palestinian/Israeli or Israeli/Palestinian circle jerk thread.

 

[hal2kilo]

Both Israel and Palestine have the right to statehood


See you in the next Lemon Law or JEDIYoda or Freshgeardude Palestinian/Israeli or Israeli/Palestinian circle jerk thread.

Nope, I said what I needed to say and since this sends all the Zionists into a frenzy this will be my second and last post in threads that basically argue back and forth about something that started thousands of years ago and may yet end up in causing the end of civilization as we know it.

 

[Lemon law]

Nope, I said what I needed to say and since this sends all the Zionists into a frenzy this will be my second and last post in threads that basically argue back and forth about something that started thousands of years ago and may yet end up in causing the end of civilization as we know it.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
While I can certainly agree with the Wisdom of this hal2kilo post, I certainly cannot agree with the prior hal2kilo post of, "Yep, never participate. Just wish the state of Israel never happened."

As for me, The state of Israel happened and for valid reasons I can agree with in 1948. Wishing the State of Israel never happened is stupid and unjust. Let us all collectively State that the State of Israel has a right to exist and any other conclusion is delusional at this time.

Having said that, its time to say, that Israel can't build its state on the foundation of denial of ALL Palestinians rights. Sadly Israel has chosen that past low road, and until that Israeli sin is righted, there is no way to arrive at a win win situation where we have both a Israeli and Palestinians State living in peace with each other in the Mid-east.

There is a 62 + past record of saying no no no, the baggage of the past has made any compromise impossible, so pick one side or the other, and say fuck you to the other side.
Eat shit and die ASAP and use gas chambers to implement the final needed solution. Far more merciful that way, why hold them in tortuous concentration camps for centuries instead?

Or we can do what I have always advocated, have faith in fairness of the human spirit and a helping hand. I believe it, I believe its true. For in my short lifetime I have seen it happen
many times. A 300 year plus Irish terrorist rebellion is now largely defused, South African apartheid is ended without a bloodbath of revenge. The two Germans States are now reunited, the two Vietnams are now united, the Soviet puppet States are now again independent, and all of that accomplished without excess violence or revenge.

Lets us not call Israel the lone barrier to peace, lots of other world problems and stupidity,
but now Israel is wilting in the eyes of the world. As pigs and fools in need of a big international dope slap as long as Bozo Netanyuhu and his merry band of settler party fools
set unsustainable Israeli policy.

Israel simply needs wiser leadership and then and only then is there a easier road ahead for everyone in the mideast.

 

[Freshgeardude]

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
While I can certainly agree with the Wisdom of this hal2kilo post, I certainly cannot agree with the prior hal2kilo post of, "Yep, never participate. Just wish the state of Israel never happened."

As for me, The state of Israel happened and for valid reasons I can agree with in 1948. Wishing the State of Israel never happened is stupid and unjust. Let us all collectively State that the State of Israel has a right to exist and any other conclusion is delusional at this time.

Having said that, its time to say, that Israel can't build its state on the foundation of denial of ALL Palestinians rights. Sadly Israel has chosen that past low road, and until that Israeli sin is righted, there is no way to arrive at a win win situation where we have both a Israeli and Palestinians State living in peace with each other in the Mid-east.

There is a 62 + past record of saying no no no, the baggage of the past has made any compromise impossible, so pick one side or the other, and say fuck you to the other side.
Eat shit and die ASAP and use gas chambers to implement the final needed solution. Far more merciful that way, why hold them in tortuous concentration camps for centuries instead?

Or we can do what I have always advocated, have faith in fairness of the human spirit and a helping hand. I believe it, I believe its true. For in my short lifetime I have seen it happen
many times. A 300 year plus Irish terrorist rebellion is now largely defused, South African apartheid is ended without a bloodbath of revenge. The two Germans States are now reunited, the two Vietnams are now united, the Soviet puppet States are now again independent, and all of that accomplished without excess violence or revenge.

Lets us not call Israel the lone barrier to peace, lots of other world problems and stupidity,
but now Israel is wilting in the eyes of the world. As pigs and fools in need of a big international dope slap as long as Bozo Netanyuhu and his merry band of settler party fools
set unsustainable Israeli policy.

Israel simply needs wiser leadership and then and only then is there a easier road ahead for everyone in the mideast.

when you actually respond to my post with hard evidence to rebut my proven factual statements, I'll start caring about your posts.

 

[Lemon law]

when you actually respond to my post with hard evidence to rebut my proven factual statements, I'll start caring about your posts.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FGD, where the hell do you get off saying there are any facts here, all we have is a 62+ plus year history of stupidity, and the latest French Foreign Minister incident covers neither side with much glory or shame.

404 FGD error, hard facts not to be found. But plenty of added emotion and bullshit fuels the FGD delusion that any wisdom is to be found anywhere worth rebutting in this thread In short FGD, any hard facts worth rebutting is only a product of your own totally biased and minuscule mind.

More open minded and non biased people realize there are merits to both the present Israeli and Palestinian arguments, and question, in the interests of mid-east and world peace, why all those problems can't be solved now now and now.

 

[mjrpes3]

they could have brought up a un complaint about it and gotten the land back that way, but instead, they signed a treaty with israel.

ahahahahaha

 

[Freshgeardude]

ahahahahaha

i didnt say it was going to work, although usually from the world's perspective, had the UN ever been useful, that would be the way for them to go.

 

[Freshgeardude]

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FGD, where the hell do you get off saying there are any facts here, all we have is a 62+ plus year history of stupidity, and the latest French Foreign Minister incident covers neither side with much glory or shame.

404 FGD error, hard facts not to be found. But plenty of added emotion and bullshit fuels the FGD delusion that any wisdom is to be found anywhere worth rebutting in this thread In short FGD, any hard facts worth rebutting is only a product of your own totally biased and minuscule mind.

More open minded and non biased people realize there are merits to both the present Israeli and Palestinian arguments, and question, in the interests of mid-east and world peace, why all those problems can't be solved now now and now.

not only do you deflect every time someone mentions israel's 10 month settlement freeze, I clearly showed hard facts that, through a treaty with Jordan, israel gained all of the west bank and gaza.


aka

so please, show me how the palestinians, who were unable to declare statehood from 1948 to 1967, and now play games instead of talking borders to end this settlement dispute, deserve some kind of nation for themselves




and LOL at this statement

More open minded and non biased people realize there are merits to both the present Israeli and Palestinian arguments, and question, in the interests of mid-east and world peace, why all those problems can't be solved now now and now.

You honestly think you are open minded and not biased? wow you are dumb.

 

[Lemon law]

FGD, do your lies and distortions ever end. No, Jordan never ceded the West Bank to only Israel, Israel has zero valid claim to settle in the West Bank and East Jerusalem, and there are many recent developments in the mid-east now that continually reshuffle the deck.

FGD, you may think Palestinians pissing off the French FM is the greatest thing since sex and sliced bread, but I will see you one FM and raise you one full Turkish Prime minister who is now hopping mad at the latest Israel white wash of the illegal seizure of a Turkish ship on the high seas.

As for the Israeli FM in Avaidor Lieberman, even Netanyuhu tries to hide that loose canon under a bushel basket.

 

[Freshgeardude]

FGD, do your lies and distortions ever end. No, Jordan never ceded the West Bank to only Israel, Israel has zero valid claim to settle in the West Bank and East Jerusalem, and there are many recent developments in the mid-east now that continually reshuffle the deck.

FGD, you may think Palestinians pissing off the French FM is the greatest thing since sex and sliced bread, but I will see you one FM and raise you one full Turkish Prime minister who is now hopping mad at the latest Israel white wash of the illegal seizure of a Turkish ship on the high seas.

As for the Israeli FM in Avaidor Lieberman, even Netanyuhu tries to hide that loose canon under a bushel basket.

so now quoting the Israeli/Jordan treaty is not enough for you.


Your distorted logic is really confusing. Hell if it said in that treaty that the west bank belonged to neitherr, you'd be the first to accept it.

Please show me exactly where I was wrong in that statement. I inivte you. Go.


As for the Turkish pm, at this point he won't take anything proving Israel's innocence. He just cares about the general population of his country and I can go as far as to say he is after reelection instead of peace. Turkey has been becoming more radical and moving towards the Iranian axis.

And international committee including a noble peace prize leaurate and some former top guy for Canada, as well a supreme court judge all concluded Israel acted in accordance with international law.


These committees aren't one sided and sometimes point the finger back at Israel. I woknt be surprised either way the UN finds go. They are biased enough to distort the law