Palestinians, Israelis trade rockets, airstrikes

[JEDIYoda]

So where do children fit in?

I guess Hamas approves of attacking kindergartens and pre-schools and killing innocent children!!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101221/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_israel_palestinians

JERUSALEM – Israel on Tuesday launched an unusually heavy series of airstrikes on Gaza in retaliation for Palestinian rocket attacks, raising the prospect of a new round of bloody fighting after a relative lull for two years.

The military said the Israeli strikes hit seven different targets in Gaza. Palestinian officials said eight militants were wounded. Then the Palestinians fired another rocket at southern Israel, lightly wounding a 16-year-old Israeli girl.

The violence followed the deaths of five Gaza militants Saturday in the deadliest Israeli assault on the coastal strip in months, indicating a trend of escalation. Two years ago, incessant rocket barrages from Gaza led Israel to launch a punishing three-week invasion that left more than 1,400 Palestinians dead, including many civilians.

In another sign of increasing tension, the Israeli military chief, Lt. Gen. Gabi Ashkenazi, said Tuesday's strikes were the first to target Gaza's ruling Hamas since the invasion. The military said the attacks were in response to the firing of 13 rockets and mortars at Israel over the past week.

Appearing before parliament's foreign affairs and defense committee, he described the situation as potentially "fragile and explosive."

Until recently, militant attacks from Gaza had subsided dramatically since Israel's offensive in late 2008,

Although Hamas, the Islamic militant group that rules Gaza, has limited attacks on Israel since then, Israel holds the group responsible for all attacks from the territory. A number of smaller militant groups have continued to fire rockets and mortars.

The military said Tuesday's airstrikes targeted a weapons factory and smuggling tunnels. It said some of the tunnels were designed to allow militants to infiltrate into Israel.

Palestinians said one of the sites hit was a government-built dairy factory.

The violence added to tensions in the region stemming from the impasse in peace efforts.

Unlike Hamas, which remains committed to Israel's destruction, the rival, Western-backed Palestinian government in the West Bank supports peace talks with Israel. The U.S.-backed talks have broken down over the issue of Israeli settlement construction in the West Bank.

With negotiations at a standstill, the Palestinians have launched a campaign for international recognition of a Palestinian state in the absence of a peace deal with Israel.

Israel's Foreign Ministry said Tuesday that its diplomats will actively fight the Palestinian initiative. Spokesman Yigal Palmor said Israel believes peace talks are the only way forward.

"The envoys will talk to diplomats and journalists to get Israel's views across," he said.

Further reflecting Israeli-Palestinian tensions, Israel on Tuesday approved a multimillion dollar plan to renovate Herodian, a key West Bank historical site, sparking Palestinian objections.

Herodian was a winter palace of King Herod, ruler of the Holy Land from 37 to 4 B.C. Israel said it would invest about $4.5 million to restore the site because of its connection to Jewish heritage. Herod expanded the Second Jewish Temple in Jerusalem.

Palestinian Authority spokesman Ghassan Khatib said West Bank sites are Palestinian heritage, not Israeli, and that such moves deepen tensions.

Israel included some West Bank sites, including Herodian, in a list of national heritage sites in February. Palestinians protested, and the U.S. called the list "provocative."

 

[Lemon law]

To some extent just the first signs that the collapsing peace talks will ramp up Israeli repression against Palestinians and only cause the larger world to ramp up tensions against Israel.

When a peaceful resolution of tensions are the larger preferred win win goal, once again mainly Israel stands four square for provocation and renewed tensions. At exactly the same time Israeli credibility is increasingly on world wide probation.

 

[5150Joker]

More like, "Israelis use US made apaches and tanks vs Pals with stones and slingshots"

 

[JEDIYoda]

More like, "Israelis use US made apaches and tanks vs Pals with stones and slingshots"

Why you even post when you have no clue whats going on in the middle east?

First of all the palestinians as a people did not attack the kindergarten.
But the government of the palestinians or shall we say the terrorist group the palestinian people voted into office, have no wish for a seperate Palestinians state.
In fact the government in their own charter call for the destruction of Israel and a nation and as a people.

yet you are one of those who believe that israel should turn the other cheek until there is no more Israel.

Nice try at down playing the attacks on Israel!!

 

[Lemon law]

Another Massada moment brought to us by JediY.

 

[Karl Agathon]

The Samson Option

 

[SamurAchzar]

More like, "Israelis use US made apaches and tanks vs Pals with stones and slingshots"

Nice, stones with 30 miles range and explosives on them
Apparently, Hamas also fired a Russian-made, Iranian/Syrian provided Kornet missile at an Israeli Merkava tank two weeks ago Link. This is one of the most advanced anti-tanks missiles in the world. IDF says there are many more of those.

IMHO another clash in Gaza, Cast Lead style, is inevitable. Few more months and shit will go down. I honestly can't see what Hamas is aiming to get now apart from more casualties on the Palestinian side.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Nice, stones with 30 miles range and explosives on them
Apparently, Hamas also fired a Russian-made, Iranian/Syrian provided Kornet missile at an Israeli Merkava tank two weeks ago. This is one of the most advanced anti-tanks missiles in the world. IDF says there are many more of those.

IMHO another clash in Gaza, Cast Lead style, is inevitable. Few more months and shit will go down. I honestly can't see what Hamas is aiming to get now apart from more casualties on the Palestinian side.

Hamas is worried that the West Bank folks may decide that most is better than nothing and try to come to an agreement which would shut them out.

They need to distract/aggrevate Israel and attempt to elicit sympathy since the embargo blockade runners are no longer active. Punish their civilian population to improve standing within the militant community.

Contrary to some solitary predictions.

• Egypt did not open their borders
• Turkey did not declare war
• The UN refused to declare any punishment against Israel

 

[TechBoyJK]

hamas is dumb. It's like they're a midget stuck in a room with a 3 ton elephant, and they don't like the elephant. So their idea is to poke at it with a stick in hopes that a little cut will cause it to bleed out and die. Then they act all butt hurt when the elephant freaks out and tries to stomp on them.

 

[Lemon law]

If anyone read the link provided by by Samur, it was careful not to say that Hamas was the group importing and firing an advanced Russian anti-tank weapon. And instead called it an identified organization.

But the last time Israel went into Gaza, all that the Gaza militants had to defend themselves with were rocks and bottles, but in a similar Israeli incursion into Lebanon that occurred two to three years before, found Israeli tanks facing those same missiles
used with great effect by Hezbollah.

At least those Russian rockets help even the odds, and keeping Israeli tanks and ground forces out of Lebanon has an overall good effect.

Now if Israeli ground forces stay the hell out of Gaza, that too would help lead to peace.

 

[Orignal Earl]

If anyone read the link provided by by Samur, it was careful not to say that Hamas was the group importing and firing an advanced Russian anti-tank weapon. And instead called it an identified organization.

It's obvious JediYogi never read his article either. It's almost bizarre the way it gets interpretated.
He claims 7 languages fluently, but must mix them all together.

 

[ConstipatedVigilante]

The Samson Option

That's not really applicable here, unless Hamas has nukes...

 

[EagleKeeper]

If anyone read the link provided by by Samur, it was careful not to say that Hamas was the group importing and firing an advanced Russian anti-tank weapon. And instead called it an identified organization.

Are you really that naive to think the Hamas does not know what weapons exists within Gaza?

Hamas has now allowed the anti to be upped.
Israel has a defensive system that that they feel will neutralize the weapon.

If or rather when, another missile is launched it will be a trigger. I suspect that there are more that are available, either inside Gaza or on the way. My guess is on the way; the sponsor wanted to ensure that a missile could make it in before committing more.

If the missile is successful, the Israelis will go back to the drawing board and Hamas will be emboldened to challenge Israel because of the Hamas perceived missile shield. Israel will respond with "Cast Lead II".

If the missile fails, Hamas goes back to poking it's fingers at Israel and trying to provoke another incident.

Much will also depend on what Israel determines on tracing the origin of the missile. It is expect to have come from Iran; how it arrived inside Gaza will be the question. Tunnels or smuggling inside approved supplies.

Tunnels will mean more ordnance dropped along the Gaza/Egyptian border and potential storage locations.

Smuggling in supply trucks would force a throttling of supplies coming into Gaza - much more stringent inspections of vehicles; delaying the overall flow of goods/supplies.

 

[Genx87]

More like, "Israelis use US made apaches and tanks vs Pals with stones and slingshots"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merkava

 

[JEDIYoda]

It's obvious JediYogi never read his article either. It's almost bizarre the way it gets interpretated.
He claims 7 languages fluently, but must mix them all together.

Is that the best you can do?
You need to read the article before commenting, it is one thing to make an intelliugent comment and another thing to not have read the article and make an idiotic comment.

As is usually the case with you this isn`t about the middle east at all, your comment was directed towards me because you have nothing to add to this thread!!

 

[JEDIYoda]

At least those Russian rockets help even the odds, and keeping Israeli tanks and ground forces out of Lebanon has an overall good effect.

Now if Israeli ground forces stay the hell out of Gaza, that too would help lead to peace.

Keep dreaming....SamurAchzar was totally correct in his post!!

YES - another clash in the Gaza is enevitable.
My question is why if as some say these people have no viable weapons to attack Israel do they continue to do so?
Possibly out of stupidity?
Yet we all know that Iran supplies the weapons and Hamas knows and probably for that matter accounts for every weapon they use as well as every rocket they use....

Thgen we haqve lemon law and his mushrooms.......

How badly do the Palestinians want peace?
I would say as a people they want peace!

How badly does the palestinians government - Hamas want peace?
Never!! Even in their charter they want Israel to be destroyed!

HAMAS -- +1 Palestinian people -- -4638467583

 

[Orignal Earl]

Is that the best you can do?
You need to read the article before commenting, it is one thing to make an intelliugent comment and another thing to not have read the article and make an idiotic comment.

As is usually the case with you this isn`t about the middle east at all, your comment was directed towards me because you have nothing to add to this thread!!

An unknown militant group shoots off a rocket and injures a girl.
As usual, Israel launches ten fold destruction back including evil dairy plants.
It would be like your city taking out your block because you failed to stop the guy on the end of the block from slapping his wife.

 

[Darwin333]

An unknown militant group shoots off a rocket and injures a girl.
As usual, Israel launches ten fold destruction back including evil dairy plants.
It would be like your city taking out your block because you failed to stop the guy on the end of the block from slapping his wife.

Really bad analogy. This is a military engagement and that is how military engagements work. You don't respond with "equal" force you respond with overwhelming force. You shoot one rocket and we shoot ten, you shoot ten and we shoot 100, etc... Eventually the other side will stop, lose the ability to continue, or they are destroyed.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Really bad analogy.

Back at you.
This is not WW2 we are talking about here. Where has this thinking worked since then?

 

[DucatiMonster696]

An unknown militant group in Hamas dominated and controlled territory (they've killed off or ran off all the supporters and members of the West Bank government) shoots off a rocket and injures a girl. As usual, Israel launches ten fold destruction back including evil dairy plants.
It would be like your city taking out your block because you failed to stop the guy on the end of the block from slapping his wife.

Fixed for accuracy.

Edit: What's Hamas' stance on achieving a peace with Israel????

 

[EagleKeeper]

An unknown militant group shoots off a rocket and injures a girl.
As usual, Israel launches ten fold destruction back including evil dairy plants.
It would be like your city taking out your block because you failed to stop the guy on the end of the block from slapping his wife.

The launch would have been known in advance and/or authorized by Hamas.
The rocket is not something that is in a backpack in terms of size. It takes time to transport and setup.
Because of the range and targetting, there are only certain locatinos that it can be effectively launched from.

Israel has informed Hamas that they will strike back whenever munitions are used against Israel. No surprise. Israel previously turned the other cheek and Hamas slapped it also. Hamas (Islam) and Israel(Jew) are not the loving Christians (which apparently you seem to be) that will forgive and hug their enemies.

Dairy plants at day, munitions storage and manufacturing plants at night. Demonstrated multiple times over the years. the Palestinians operate that way to preserve the face on innocence. Even Iraq used that technique.

If Hamas actually wanted peace, they could have it. They do not want it; they desire/require conflict.

 

[Lemon law]

Of course, from the standpoint of a totally pro-Israeli fan clubber, only the Israeli viewpoint is "TOTALLY CORRECT."

What is being missed here is that basically 60%+ of the entire state of Israel is propped up on the foundation of theft of Palestinian land. And now to add injury to insult, Israel wants to retain and dominate the West Bank and Gaza in addition.

But after 62 or 43 years of Israeli stalling stalling and stalling, nothing is getting accomplished toward solving how to restore some equivalent fairness to the Palestinians.

If the world looks at it from just the pro-Israeli point of view, the Palestinians refugee crisis we traded for an Jewish refugee crisis in 1948 will never be solved.

But that is now the Israeli problem, the world is getting increasingly losing patience with the Israeli propaganda that they are the reasonable ones. And the next entity that tries to set up a Palestinians state is not going to be asking Israel to get the heck out of the West Bank and Gaza, they will be forcing Israel to get out because Israel no longer has any moral standing. Probable means, an Israeli economic embargo.

When it comes, a few million totally pro-Israeli fan clubbers will be amazed, and probably another larger group of totally pro Israeli fan clubbers will be totally amazed at how long Israel got away with their propaganda before the jig was up.

If we look at the Israeli Palestinian conflict from a fairness perspective, no fair minded person could totally side with the current Israeli government and its settler parties.

But no one on this forum is accusing JediY and the other pro-Israeli fan clubbers of being fair minded.

 

[Orignal Earl]

The launch would have been known in advance and/or authorized by Hamas.

What makes you think that? You honestly believe Hamas has eyes on everything that goes on in Gaza?
Your talking about the kind of technology that Israel has pointed at Gaza. There is thousands of cameras, drones, etc. covering Gaza. Why didn't they see it coming?

 

[Lemon law]

And now Common Courtesy add in the continuing Israeli propaganda of, "If Hamas actually wanted peace, they could have it. They do not want it; they desire/require conflict."

Well if that were true, the good peaceful Palestinians in the West Bank should have gotten that peace in Annapolis and again in the latest Obama negotiations. And now the world is increasingly realizing that no matter how the Palestinians behave, Israel will never give anything back and that the Common Courtesy contention is simply an Israeli smokescreen.

And that Abbas is 100% correct, why even play the Israeli charade while Israel settles and settles on West Bank land it can never own. As the Pals and the rest of the world increasingly realize Israel says one thing and does quite another. Israel has had two chances in Annapolis and now with the Obama plan, and have PROVED TO THE ENTIRE WORLD that Israel is the only party unwilling to work towards peace.

Job one is to stop 100% of Israeli settlement in the West Bank and East Jerusalem. Job two is to start expelling all Israeli settlers in the West Bank and East Jerusalem so we can set up a Palestinian State with a minimum amount of violence.

 

[JEDIYoda]

What makes you think that? You honestly believe Hamas has eyes on everything that goes on in Gaza?
Your talking about the kind of technology that Israel has pointed at Gaza. There is thousands of cameras, drones, etc. covering Gaza. Why didn't they see it coming?

As usual; you are dream or using Lemon law`s mushrooms...