Palestinian Militants Launch Floating Bombs at Israel

[JohnOfSheffield]

Meh, Sammy????????????????????

As was pointed out earlier, Israel must ether address the allegations in the Goldstone report or the UN will simply automatically turn it over to international war crimes Prosecutors. Tick Tick Tick, the six mouths are nearly up.

Cheer up, various Israeli officials may not be on any do not fly lists, but they may find themselves subject to immediate arrest if they fly into any airport in the world outside of Israel.

International war crimes are highly specific, the guilt also equally belongs to those responsible for preventing war crimes every bit as much as the actual perps themselves.

And in fact they are held to a higher standard. Israel is not going to get off any hooks by trying to straddle the fence.

I should also point out, GWB, Cheney, Blair and many others may face the same fate, as well as Hamas officials equally complicit, but the larger world, IMHO, is far too slow in prosecuting war criminals.

I can tell you one thing and i told someone else when i was going forth with something...

Blair isn't ever going to do anything again and should keep a bloody low profile. His EU precidensy was suddenly... well, the man understood that being a fucking twat is not qualification for being a leader of the free world.

GW and Cheney? hehe, they will live good lives and never have to expect anything and in 10 years they will be looked upon as the great American heroes and it will grow.

Kinda how Roosevelt is looked up on today even though he was a bloody useless twat.

 

[Atreus21]

Both sides do the same, one side just has access to more / sophisticated resources. The cycle continues.

Sorry, don't agree. Israel killed an operative, they kill civilians.

 

[Noobtastic]

A chemical that sets things on fire is a chemical that sets things on fire;
A chemical that sets things on fire is an incendiary weapon;
Use of incendiary weapons is prohibited in proximity of civilians.

this is becoming redundant.

use of WP-smoke is not prohibited simply because civilians are nearby.

IF an enemy surrounds themselves near civilians, it does not make them immune from attack.

This is straight from the Geneva Convention and is institutionalized in warfare.

If it were criminal to target terrorists who hide behind civilians, then every war in history would be criminal.

as i said fire, M235 does not qualify as a chemical weapon any less than a flair qualifies as a chemical weapon.

It is not designed as a weapon, but a smoke screen. It can incur real casualties and harm people, and using it as a weapon is illegal - but there is no evidence that israel used it as a weapon against civilians.

you want to know why israel has never been subject to any real investgation beyond UN Nazis?

Because there is no evidence to support the allegations.

As was pointed out earlier, Israel must ether address the allegations in the Goldstone report or the UN will simply automatically turn it over to international war crimes Prosecutors. Tick Tick Tick, the six mouths are nearly up.

Israel already addressed the Goldstone report last weekend. The UN will not "automatically" turn the Goldstone report to international war crimes prosecutor because the Goldstone Report has no legal merit.

It is merely a fact-finding survey that cannot be used in court.

Ask Goldstone, he will tell you this.

israel could only be sent to the ICC if the UNSC passed a resolution, but even then the ICC might reject the case entirely since they have no evidence.

read a book.

 

[SamurAchzar]

Meh, Sammy????????????????????

As was pointed out earlier, Israel must ether address the allegations in the Goldstone report or the UN will simply automatically turn it over to international war crimes Prosecutors. Tick Tick Tick, the six mouths are nearly up.

Cheer up, various Israeli officials may not be on any do not fly lists, but they may find themselves subject to immediate arrest if they fly into any airport in the world outside of Israel.

International war crimes are highly specific, the guilt also equally belongs to those responsible for preventing war crimes every bit as much as the actual perps themselves.

And in fact they are held to a higher standard. Israel is not going to get off any hooks by trying to straddle the fence.

I should also point out, GWB, Cheney, Blair and many others may face the same fate, as well as Hamas officials equally complicit, but the larger world, IMHO, is far too slow in prosecuting war criminals.

Never going to happen buddy. UK and Spain are already looking for a way out of this mess, with UK foreign minister (not exactly right-wing, mind) already saying they'll look into revising the law to avoid such embarrassments (e.g. Hamas sponsored anti British Muslim organizations asking the court to arrest officers of an ally on British soil).

Exactly because of the reason neither Blair or Bush will ever have anything to worry about, so will Israeli officers be free to roam the world as they please. There is a very specific list of frankly negligible countries - mostly nordic - that might do some troubles, but I'm sure they can be ignored. Do you see Markel, Berlusconi or Sarkozi allowing anyone to arrest Israeli officials on their soil, silly boy?

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Sorry, don't agree. Israel killed an operative, they kill civilians.

That isn't a fucking excuse for either side.

I say the EU and the US step in and put the kids in separate classrooms until the little twats learn how to play nice.

Israel occupies more land, Palestines fight back, Israelis shoot the women and children in the area and they are then deemed settles, the outraged husband who enters the settlers land is deemed a terrorist and shot.

THIS IS HOW IT WORKS!

There is no fucking doubt about IF that is how it works, it IS how it works.

I know your fucked up religion makes you want to love all Jews but in reality, don't go near a synagogue in Israel wearing a cross, they will spit on you but let Muslims pass, at least Muslims have the same god as Jews while christians do not.

So are the Palestinians right then? No, of fucking course not, Jews deserve their own land but we have seen this dance for so long, perhaps it's fucking time to stop the settlements on the Israeli side and the terrorism from the Palestinian side?

Heh... like that will EVER happen, one side could just flat out give up and it wouldn't even matter.

 

[SamurAchzar]

Israel occupies more land, Palestines fight back, Israelis shoot the women and children in the area and they are then deemed settles, the outraged husband who enters the settlers land is deemed a terrorist and shot.

How about "Israel forcefully evacuates Gaza of all settlers and hands it back to the Palestinians no questions asked, the Palestinians bring Hamas to power and start shooting rockets, Israel waits patiencely for 3 years, then having enough it owns them"

I think my version more closely resembles history, although we can debate that.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

this is becoming redundant.

use of WP-smoke is not prohibited simply because civilians are nearby.

WP grenades are NOT smoke grenades.

You're fucked in your head so bad that it's pathetic to even read your responses by now.

WP grenades of ANY kind are ALWAYS forbidden in ALL populated areas PERIOD!

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

How about "Israel forcefully evacuates Gaza of all settlers and hands it back to the Palestinians no questions asked, the Palestinians bring Hamas to power and start shooting rockets, Israel waits patiencely for 3 years, then having enough it owns them"

I think my version more closely resembles history, although we can debate that.

If you take my words out of context then yes, it seems like i am one sided but i am not.

Yeah, Israel gave a good deal of the area back and as a reward hundreds of rockets a week (at one point, hundreds a day) rained down upon a population that was in fear for their lives and probably only saved by the shelters that were built because this could be expected at some point.

Don't think i am making excuses for the Palestinians for their wrongdoings because if you knew anything about me you'd know that i never would.

What i am saying is that this dance has been going on since forever and this is what? 30'th time when PA and Israel are going to peace talks because of US pressure?

Yeah, THIS TIME, they won't blame everything on each other and they will come to an agreement.

They are children and the EU and the US need to tell them to calm the fuck down.

ADD medications might be a first step.

 

[Noobtastic]

WP grenades are NOT smoke grenades.

You're fucked in your head so bad that it's pathetic to even read your responses by now.

WP grenades of ANY kind are ALWAYS forbidden in ALL populated areas PERIOD!

Israel does not have WP grenades.

Here is the definition for the M825 155mm White Phosphorous projectile:

The M825 is a 155mm Smoke projectile used to provide screening or marking smoke. It is a separate loading munition using a hollow forged steel shell. The shape is ogival with a boat tail for aerodynamic efficiency and a welded steel baseplate. Close to the base is a gilding metal drive band protected by a grommet until just before loading.

The M825A1 White Phosphorus shell deploys 116 WP impregnated felt wedges that provide screening for about 5-10 minutes over a 125-250 meter area that obscures enemy vision or screens maneuvering elements. It deploys about 12.75 lbs of White Phosphorus impregnated felt wedges, and weighs about 102 lbs.

Legal experts who testified at the UN in regards to Israel's use of WP had this to say:

Professor Newton, expert in laws of armed conflict testifying in front of the committee, said that in an urban area, where potential perils are snipers, explosive devices and trip wires, one effective way to mask forces' movement is by white phosphorous. In certain cases, he added, such choice of means would be least harmful for civilian population, provided that the use of white phosphorous withstands the proportionality test. He also stressed that the white phosphorous munition is neither chemical nor incendiary weapon

Lt. Colonel Raymond Lane: The quality of smoke produced by white phosphorous (sic) is superb; if you want real smoke for real coverage, white phosphorus will give it to you"

http://www.un.org/webcast/unhrc/archive.asp?go=090707

US and British forces use white phosphorous in Afghanistan on a monthly basis according to the military:

http://in.reuters.com/article/southAsiaNews/idINIndia-39498520090508?sp=true

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/20/world/asia/20ambush.html?_r=2&ref=world&pagewanted=all

http://www.rferl.org/content/Invest...Phosphorus_Claims_In_Afghanistan/1731117.html

The credibility of Human Rights Watch - the most mainstream rights movement that accused Israel of violating international law with its use of WP - has come into question when its military expert considering his relationship with Pro-Nazi artifacts.

Also, the fact that HRW put their full name behind the Goldstone Report, which has been accused of bias and factual inaccuracies (conceded by its original author), while also failing to provide a methodology for their assessments make it hard to take their claims seriously.

Garlasco is also a suspect considering his extreme hypocrisy of US/Israel military. He defended the US military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan, completely justifying rationalizing whole-sale carpet bombing of civilian areas, but condemns Israel without measure, even though Israel was far more restrained compared to the US and actually issued warnings before the attack, unlike the USAF.

Anyways, there are clearly issues that can be debates - but the accusation that Israel used WP against civilians deliberately has been debunked. And the argument that Israel used WP in an irresponsible manner has also been debunked.

 

[fallout man]

Cool story, bro.

Israel does not have WP grenades.

Here is the definition for Hasbara:

The M825 is a 155mm Smoke projectile used to provide screening or marking smoke. It is a separate loading munition using a hollow forged steel shell. The shape is ogival with a boat tail for aerodynamic efficiency and a welded steel baseplate. Close to the base is a gilding metal drive band protected by a grommet until just before loading.

The M825A1 White Phosphorus shell deploys 116 WP impregnated felt wedges that provide screening for about 5-10 minutes over a 125-250 meter area that obscures enemy vision or screens maneuvering elements. It deploys about 12.75 lbs of White Phosphorus impregnated felt wedges, and weighs about 102 lbs.

Legal experts who testified at the UN in regards to Israel's use of WP had this to say:

Professor Newton, expert in laws of armed conflict testifying in front of the committee, said that in an urban area, where potential perils are snipers, explosive devices and trip wires, one effective way to mask forces' movement is by white phosphorous. In certain cases, he added, such choice of means would be least harmful for civilian population, provided that the use of white phosphorous withstands the proportionality test. He also stressed that the white phosphorous munition is neither chemical nor incendiary weapon

Lt. Colonel Raymond Lane: The quality of smoke produced by white phosphorous (sic) is superb; if you want real smoke for real coverage, white phosphorus will give it to you"

http://www.un.org/webcast/unhrc/archive.asp?go=090707

US and British forces use white phosphorous in Afghanistan on a monthly basis according to the military:

http://in.reuters.com/article/southAsiaNews/idINIndia-39498520090508?sp=true

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/20/world/asia/20ambush.html?_r=2&ref=world&pagewanted=all

http://www.rferl.org/content/Invest...Phosphorus_Claims_In_Afghanistan/1731117.html

The credibility of Human Rights Watch - the most mainstream rights movement that accused Israel of violating international law with its use of WP - has come into question when its military expert considering his relationship with Pro-Nazi artifacts.

Also, the fact that HRW put their full name behind the Goldstone Report, which has been accused of bias and factual inaccuracies (conceded by its original author), while also failing to provide a methodology for their assessments make it hard to take their claims seriously.

Garlasco is also a suspect considering his extreme hypocrisy of US/Israel military. He defended the US military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan, completely justifying rationalizing whole-sale carpet bombing of civilian areas, but condemns Israel without measure, even though Israel was far more restrained compared to the US and actually issued warnings before the attack, unlike the USAF.

Anyways, there are clearly issues that can be debates - but the accusation that Israel used WP against civilians deliberately has been debunked. And the argument that Israel used WP in an irresponsible manner has also been debunked.

 

[Noobtastic]

Cool story, bro.

I simply provide the facts.

 

[ForumMaster]

It just opens up another front, and now Israel is completely surrounded on all sides. At least Israel could counterattack when the threat was land based, but what can Israel do but nuke the Mediterranean sea now?

But this also showcases the danger of false flag attacks and collective punishment, any terrorist group can trespass into Jordan, the West Bank, Gaza, Lebanon, Egypt, or use the Mediterranean sea to peg missiles into Israel without the knowledge or consent of any ruling bodies, and then when Israel retaliates, sooner or later they have no choice but to attack Israel in turn.

actually, back in the 1970's, there were several attacks by plaestinians terrorists that came by rubber boats to the shore. ever since, israel has a very advanced radar system that can detect any boat from lebanon to lybia. floating barrels might be a little more difficult because the move so slow and are so small, but i think it might be possible.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally Posted by Lemon law
It just opens up another front, and now Israel is completely surrounded on all sides. At least Israel could counterattack when the threat was land based, but what can Israel do but nuke the Mediterranean sea now?

But this also showcases the danger of false flag attacks and collective punishment, any terrorist group can trespass into Jordan, the West Bank, Gaza, Lebanon, Egypt, or use the Mediterranean sea to peg missiles into Israel without the knowledge or consent of any ruling bodies, and then when Israel retaliates, sooner or later they have no choice but to attack Israel in turn.

Your attempt at logic fail 100%. In fact your scenario is so pathetic it is laughable!!