Palestine on the map

[JEDIYoda]

And which state has a permanent seat on the security council with full veto power? The point is with that veto power the US pretty much has a virtual stranglehold over the UN and its ability to condemn Israel. -- oh...boohoo..wawawaaaa.....

just doing a quick google search you'll find stuff like this:
http://guardian.150m.com/palestine/UN-condemnation-of-israel.htm

That is a real good thing!! The UN has never attempted to be fair in who it condemns in the middle east....

 

[Noobtastic]

And which state has a permanent seat on the security council with full veto power? The point is with that veto power the US pretty much has a virtual stranglehold over the UN and its ability to condemn Israel.

just doing a quick google search you'll find stuff like this:
http://guardian.150m.com/palestine/UN-condemnation-of-israel.htm

it does look the unhrc is pretty anti israel oriented, but what really matters is the security council since they do have some oomph behind their resolutions.

in short, im pretty sure AzN was thinking about the veto yielding US in the security council.

Of the 200 resolutions against Israel, USA has only vetoed 39.

Soviet used their veto powers more time.

USA routinely lets Israel get sandbagged in the UN.

The reality is the UNGA controls the RESOLUTIONS. They design and write up the resolutions, and they're sent off to the UNSC for a vote.

So the Muslim world is immune from attack, and Israel - a country loaded with Jews - is public enemy #1.

USA spends more time protecting the oil despot than the Jews.

It is sick that the US is the only country willing to stand up to this tribal dipshit sandassholes.

Britain, France, and Russia have all been corrupted by oil.

Notice no UN resolutions when France raped Algeria, or Russia fucked chechnya in the ass.

 

[werepossum]

Personally I think the "right of return" is a joke. When the fledgling state of Israel was under attack from all sides, some Arabs and Muslims stayed and some left. The former group enjoys the same rights as do the Jews. As for the latter, screw 'em. If you can't fight for your country in its direst need, its darkest hour, why should it let you back in to enjoy the only place in the region that isn't an oppressive and steaming pile of bullshite? (With the possible exception of Jordan, which at least boasts some smoking hot women.)

 

[irishScott]

You are clueless. The international community doesn't give a shit about Palestine.

As long as oil politics are in the mix Israel will always be wrong and the Arabs will always be the victim.

Nothing Israel can do to stop it. Nothing.

Don't remember Oslo 1? Israel dubiously removed dozens of settlements, gave Palestinians 80% control of Gaza and 40% control of the West Bank - what did they get in return?

More violence. More terrorism. More international condemnation.

Back in the 50s and 60s, far more Palestinians and Israelis were being killed. Over 1,500 and 7,000+ Palestinians in border wars.

But the world didn't give a shit because Israel would tolerate terrorism and wasn't going to sacrifice its sovereignty for some bullshit peace process.

The world doesn't respect Israel because Israel doesn't respect itself.

If America was being treated this way I'd bomb the UN headquarters.

Clueless? At the very least it would give Israel something to pin to it's chest that the international community has been calling for. And if settlements are really no big deal, then why not stop building them for a few months so talks can take place?

And here's the 3rd grade logic/magic of it: If things continue to go south, you have *gasp* justification! To take appropriate action, and it would be recent justification.

So the losses are minimal, the gains substantial if not major. The only apparent problem is Israel putting its pride ahead of its goals.

One thing you did get right, Israel has to figure out which direction it's going. The Palestinians aren't going anywhere willingly, so either find a way to get them to leave or learn to live with them. Wish Israel would just commit to one or the other and go with it.

As for if America being treated that way, we probably would be right now, if we weren't the global superpower. Israel is not a superpower, and can't afford to act like one. That's just a fact. Oh, and even if America was being treated this way, the fact that you'd bomb anyone over it shows just how much of a fanatic you are.

 

[Noobtastic]

Clueless? At the very least it would give Israel something to pin to it's chest that the international community has been calling for. And if settlements are really no big deal, then why not stop building them for a few months so talks can take place?

YOU DONT UNDERSTAND - Israel slapped a 10 month moratorium on settlements in the West Bank as demanded by Obama.

Clinton extolled it as "historic" and Obama was pleased.

The settlements were never a condition for peace talks, ever. The Palestinians have provided 14 preconditions to even negotiate.

We are negotiating to negotiate.

Nothing Israel can do to stop it. UNILATERAL CONCESSIONS CREATE UNILATERAL REACTIONS.

Concessions only enforce rejectionism, which has been openly admitted by Palestinian negotiators.

Why negotiate when the international community will squeeze Israel to do something for nothing?

If I was a Palestinian I'd never make peace with Israel, ever.

And here's the 3rd grade logic/magic of it: If things continue to go south, you have *gasp* justification! To take appropriate action, and it would be recent justification.

Uh?

So the losses are minimal, the gains substantial if not major. The only apparent problem is Israel putting its pride ahead of its goals.

This isn't a matter of a pride. It is totally racist and antisemitic to say Jews cannot live in the West Bank just as it is hateful and bigoted to say Arabs have no right to live in Israel.

USA is paying lip service to the hateful Arab tribes.

What's new?

One thing you did get right, Israel has to figure out which direction it's going. The Palestinians aren't going anywhere willingly, so either find a way to get them to leave or learn to live with them. Wish Israel would just commit to one or the other and go with it.

Israel is doing a pretty good job containing the Palestinians. Violence is down (really down), Palestinian economy is surging, Palestinian government is more independent.

Of course the Left and the Arabs are frustated. They want to see the Palestinians in a war. the Left wants another intifada.

Imagine if this conflict was resolved.

The UN would have nothing to do.

As for if America being treated that way, we probably would be right now, if we weren't the global superpower. Israel is not a superpower, and can't afford to act like one. That's just a fact. Oh, and even if America was being treated this way, the fact that you'd bomb anyone over it shows just how much of a fanatic you are.

America destroys entire nations for less. We bomb countries simply on the illusion that they have bombs. We support Islamic dictatorships, we sponsor genocides, we murder millions.

I am not a fanatic, I just tell the truth.

 

[irishScott]

YOU DONT UNDERSTAND - Israel slapped a 10 month moratorium on settlements in the West Bank as demanded by Obama.

Clinton extolled it as "historic" and Obama was pleased.

The settlements were never a condition for peace talks, ever. The Palestinians have provided 14 preconditions to even negotiate.

We are negotiating to negotiate.

Nothing Israel can do to stop it. UNILATERAL CONCESSIONS CREATE UNILATERAL REACTIONS.

Concessions only enforce rejectionism, which has been openly admitted by Palestinian negotiators.

Why negotiate when the international community will squeeze Israel to do something for nothing?

If I was a Palestinian I'd never make peace with Israel, ever.












Uh?


This isn't a matter of a pride. It is totally racist and antisemitic to say Jews cannot live in the West Bank just as it is hateful and bigoted to say Arabs have no right to live in Israel.

USA is paying lip service to the hateful Arab tribes.

What's new?



Israel is doing a pretty good job containing the Palestinians. Violence is down (really down), Palestinian economy is surging, Palestinian government is more independent.

Of course the Left and the Arabs are frustated. They want to see the Palestinians in a war. the Left wants another intifada.

Imagine if this conflict was resolved.

The UN would have nothing to do.




America destroys entire nations for less. We bomb countries simply on the illusion that they have bombs. We support Islamic dictatorships, we sponsor genocides, we murder millions.

I am not a fanatic, I just tell the truth.

Ah, well after a little research I guess I am out of the loop. My understanding was that settlements were simply "limited" as opposed to stopped.

But as for the rest of your post... yeah nothing I say's going to convince you at this point. I'll leave you with the proverbial: "just because someone else does it doesn't make it good." and "bombing people because they don't like you is bad."

 

[Freshgeardude]

Freshgeardude has the wrong answer for "did the united states allow the leaders of the South keep their positions, jobs, freedoms, after the end of the civil war?"

A very limited number of Southern leaders paid the Jefferson Davis forfeit, but many confederate generals were instead granted their freedom back. Robert E. Lee for one.
As for countless confederate soldiers, they were even given mules so they could resume their lives as farmers. And they went back to their own land they owned before and that land was not confiscated by the victorious Union forces.

That US history is almost 99.9 % different from Israeli post 1948 behavior as they expelled all Palestinians and nearly all Arabs, not on the basis of behavior but on the basis of racial heritage and religion.

GOOD FUCKING JOB! you completely ignored all of the real value of the post, the main point of the post, to write 3 paragraphs on a sentence i made.


First of all, Robert E. Lee was a General and didnt not give a shit which side he was on. he was asked by abe lincoln to support the north, he thought about it and then instead went to the south as a general simply because he wanted to support the state he was born in. He didnt have a personal ventetta to the north.

Under the eyes of abe lincoln, he never thought the south ceded from the union, because there were no laws on the fact. This was a main concern for lincoln after the North won. Do we punish them? do we keep an occupation of Northern troops? do we leave them be?

This is why most didnt get punished. most were dragged to fight by their states

regardless of what happened in America, you still avoided my facts of information that you cant debunk since they are the truth.

and by the way... the arabs in Israel mostly left. they were told they would be able to come back after they beat israel in a war or simply left to avoid the battles. guess what happened?

after 7 islamic nations attack you on the 2nd day of creation of your country, would you honestly allow those same islamic people to just run around your country?

the fact is, the islamic nations are still pissed that they got butt fucked by israel, a country not even a few days old in 48. then got fucked in 67, 73 and so fourth.

there is a reason why palestinians call for a return to 67 borders and not 48.

 

[Lemon law]

In your own words, Freshgeardude, you are defining the whole Israeli Arab Palestinian conflict as a war of incompatible religions by saying, "after 7 islamic nations attack you on the 2nd day of creation of your country, would you honestly allow those same islamic people to just run around your country?"

And more over that guilt is collective, and in no way based on individual conduct.

 

[Freshgeardude]

In your own words, Freshgeardude, you are defining the whole Israeli Arab Palestinian conflict as a war of incompatible religions by saying, "after 7 islamic nations attack you on the 2nd day of creation of your country, would you honestly allow those same islamic people to just run around your country?"

And more over that guilt is collective, and in no way based on individual conduct.

When you learn that it is just that, a battle of religions, you will truely understand this war.

the jews who lived in israeli land before 1948 faced opposition, massacres, constant battles, and had to create an a security force, known as the Haganah (later forming into the IDF) to protect themselves. IDF means ISRAELI DEFENSE FORCES. the name was coined in the creation of israel ( or at least around that time). the land the jews were on were COMPLETELY legally bought land, all payed in full, proper paperwork, etc, basically legal in every way. Arabs saw the jews come in and at first accepted the jews. actually many moved into jewish areas. after the Balfour Declaration, arabs started opposition to a 2 state solution. It wasnt their country to decide, but the land was lax in its government enforcement, which led to the arabs fighting back.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_conflict#End_of_19th_century.E2.80.931948

go read that. nice quote from there.

Jewish immigration to Palestine increased. By 1931, 17 percent of the population of Palestine were Jews, an increase of six percent since 1922.[11] Jewish immigration increased soon after the Nazis came to power in Germany, causing the Jewish population in Palestine to double.[12] Palestinian Arabs saw this rapid influx of Jewish immigrants as a threat to their homeland and their identity as a people. Moreover, Jewish policies of purchasing land and prohibiting the employment of Arabs in Jewish-owned industries and farms greatly angered the Palestinian Arab communities.[13] Demonstrations were held as early as 1920, protesting what the Arabs felt were unfair preferences for the Jewish immigrants set forth by the British mandate that governed Palestine at the time. This resentment led to outbreaks of violence. In March 1920, a first violent incident occurred in Tel Hai, later that year riots broke out in Jerusalem. Winston Churchill's 1922 White Paper tried to reassure the Arab population, denying that the creation of a Jewish state was the intention of the Balfour Declaration. In 1929, after a demonstration by Vladimir Jabotinsky's political group Betar at the Western Wall, riots started in Jerusalem and expanded throughout Palestine; Arabs murdered 67 Jews in the city of Hebron, in what became known as the Hebron Massacre. During the week of riots, at least 116 Arabs and 133 Jews[14] were killed and 339 wounded.[15] By 1936, escalating tensions led to the 1936–1939 Arab revolt in Palestine.[16]

these tensions created

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1936–1939_Arab_revolt_in_Palestine
OUTCOME:

Despite the assistance of 20,000 additional British troops and several thousand Haganah men, the uprising continued for over two years. By the time it concluded in March 1939, more than 5,000 Arabs, 400 Jews, and 200 Britons had been killed and at least 15,000 Arabs were wounded.[5]
The revolt did not achieve its goals, although it is "credited with signifying the birth of the Arab Palestinian identity."[5] It is generally credited with forcing the issuance of the White Paper of 1939 which renounced Britain's intent of creating a Jewish National Home in Palestine, as proclaimed in the 1917 Balfour Declaration.
Another outcome of the hostilities was the disengagement of the Jewish and Arab economies in Palestine, which were more or less interwtined until that time. For example, whereas the Jewish city of Tel Aviv relied on the nearby Arab seaport of Jaffa, hostilities dictated the construction of a separate Jewish-run seaport for Tel Aviv. Historians later pointed to the uprising as a pivotal point at which the Jewish population in Palestine became independent and self-sustaining.
During the uprising, British authorities attempted to confiscate all weapons from the Arab population. This, and the destruction of the main Arab political leadership in the revolt, greatly hindered their military efforts in the 1948 Palestine war.[

the battles in israel for peace is not an Israeli palestinian issue. its a jewish/ islamic problem.


If the palestinians would have accepted the original 2 state solution, they would have more land today, open borders, peace, a less military based israel, and probably zero tension in the region.

yassar arafat was offered 91% of the 67 borders, and 9% land mass in the negev in return for the part not able. he declined the offer and offered NO counteroffer.

The palestinians are not interested in peace. they offer more conditions than offers. after israel left gaza and left the west bank, nothing happened.


selfish arabs are the problem in israel, not israel itself. when you learn this, you will see the position I take, as well as others on this forum

 

[ciproxr]

It is sick that the US is the only country willing to stand up to this tribal dipshit sandassholes.

did you just refer to Arabs as tribal dipshit sandassholes ?

 

[HGC]

its a jewish/ islamic problem.

I think it's really just an Islamic problem. What the Israelis face, the Russians, Thais, Filipinos, Indians, English, Americans, Dutch, Danish, Balinese, Spanish, North Africans, and Australians also face.

If, as Arabs dream, Palestine was free of Jews and an Islamic state, the Jihad would just continue in other places.

 

[Freshgeardude]

I think it's really just an Islamic problem. What the Israelis face, the Russians, Thais, Filipinos, Indians, English, Americans, Dutch, Danish, Balinese, Spanish, North Africans, and Australians also face.

If, as Arabs dream, Palestine was free of Jews and an Islamic state, the Jihad would just continue in other places.

agreed. thats basically what I meant. in Israel, its a jewish/islamic thing, elsewhere in the world, they have similar problems.


Israel was the first to see the islamic terror before anyone else and because of it have better countermeasures.

 

[SamurAchzar]

did you just refer to Arabs as tribal dipshit sandassholes ?

He omitted inbreeding, murderous, etc

 

[SamurAchzar]

I think it's really just an Islamic problem. What the Israelis face, the Russians, Thais, Filipinos, Indians, English, Americans, Dutch, Danish, Balinese, Spanish, North Africans, and Australians also face.

If, as Arabs dream, Palestine was free of Jews and an Islamic state, the Jihad would just continue in other places.

Now, why most people around P&N are oblivious to this very straightforward reality, that I do not know.

People want to believe everyone is like them; part of it is the traces of Imperialism and Missioning, which completely disrespected and dismissed other cultures and their differences, and part of it is just not wanting to acknowledge the problem, which in reality is pretty frightening when you consider how big and blood thirsty the Muslim world really is.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Many try to apply their Western values and morals to those that have no interest in such

 

[Lemon law]

It now seems that the last four posters, in an orgy of agreement, have formed a consensus and decided Arabs and Muslims are just inherently violent, all 1.4 billion of the them.

But I submit, in terms of historical box scores of net people murdered, enslaved, all all that stuff, Christians are way way ahead. Judaism is decidedly behind in the box scores because of the far fewer members, but they make it well into the running on a per ca-pita basis.

Another factor to mention, is that mainly Muslims nations are the last to throw off the colonial yoke, and its also where mainly Western nations are fighting last ditch efforts to maintain their control.

Another factor to mention is that mainly Western countries had the benefits of a higher technology applied to them far earlier, and with technology comes more individual liberties. And with a longer time to adapt the Western changes have been gradual. But as technology goes world wide, even 100 years is not enough time to adapt gradually.
And if we look at Muslim nations, there is a tremendous amount of cultural diversity, some still clinging to burkas, and others have thrown that out centuries ago or never had the custom.

I remain convinced that people are people are people the world over, and with being human, comes human greed and a tendency to divide the world into us and them.

And if we can just justify to ourselves that the group of them is inherently inferior, it becomes morally correct to use our greed to dominate, control, and oppress the group of them.

 

[Noobtastic]

did you just refer to Arabs as tribal dipshit sandassholes ?

I was being generous.

 

[TwinsenTacquito]

I am a Palestinian male born in 1989.

It is my job to kill Israeli children during prayer because 50 years before I was born Jews moved to a strip of desert my great grandfather lived 1000 miles away from and had no interest living on. This gives me every right to kill everyone I do not like.

 

[Lemon law]

I am a Palestinian male born in 1989.

It is my job to kill Israeli children during prayer because 50 years before I was born Jews moved to a strip of desert my great grandfather lived 1000 miles away from and had no interest living on. This gives me every right to kill everyone I do not like.

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And you may be one of the few lucky ones, what gives you the right to speak for those that less lucky fellows of your ethnic group that are totally screwed still? And as you just admitted, your grandfather never really asserted a claim to land he never wanted.

In short, just because YOUR ox was never gored means no one elses ox was ever gored.

Bogus reasoning in the extreme.

 

[HGC]

It now seems that the last four posters, in an orgy of agreement, have formed a consensus and decided Arabs and Muslims are just inherently violent, all 1.4 billion of the them.

I can't speak for others, but I don't think that. I think we're all fundamentally the same. I do think, though, that a large and growing number of Muslims are mistakenly focusing on the historical person Muhammed, who saw God and spoke of God from his point of view, that of a desert warlord. It's the God part, not the warlord part, that is important.