Palestine on the map

[SandEagle]

great video that summarizes the israeli/palestine conflict in 3 minutes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9r9ACkpFVk





To all the morons who say Palestine never existed:

http://www.rys2sense.com/anti-neocons/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=7971&start=0

 

[StageLeft]

who cares?

 

[SandEagle]

who cares?

lol u rock ^_^

 

[StageLeft]

lol u rock ^_^

twss

 

[theflyingpig]

Wars were fought, and Israel won.

That is all that needs to be said. If the Palestinians cannot defeat Israel in combat, then they don't deserve the land. This is the way of the world. Everyone knows this.

 

[ProfJohn]

great video that summarizes the israeli/palestine conflict in 3 minutes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9r9ACkpFVk

What a worthless piece of propaganda.

Like the bit about how Israel put up these big evil walls!! Shame on them. (we'll just forget that prior to the walls being built suicide bombers were blowing themselves up in crowded markets and bus stops.)

Or at the end where she talks about how every thing Israel has done has lead some to violence... umm no you have it backwards. Israel has done what it has because of the violence.

I am sure I could go on and pick apart every bit of this video. But all you really have to know is that most of the suffering the Palestinians face is due to their violent past and their continued refusal to live peacefully with Israel. Even when Arafat was offered nearly everything he wanted he still walked away from the peace table, makes you wonder.

 

[Lemon law]

The non Prof John delusion is and remains, the Palestinian people will never surrender the right to return and never will. And any Israeli delusion that they offered Arafat a fair settlement will likely not stand the test of time.

 

[Freshgeardude]

Lets go back to where the woman stated: (paraphrasing) " The world divided the land into two parts and the arabs said no."


if they had said yes, fine, ok. there would not be problems today.

arabs started the war from the beginning

arabs have been pissed that they have lost.

Israel defends itself from pissed arabs

we are here today.


facts have not changed. only who controls land after war has.

 

[JS80]

There's so such thing as "Palestine." No such thing as palestinian. They are the arabs no arab country wants living in Israel by the Jews' good grace.

 

[Noobtastic]

Palestine on the Map:

Arabs rejected an all-Palestine state in 1948. They also neglected to establish a "Palestine" between 1948-1967, when not a single Israeli civilian or soldier was stationed in any inch of Gaza, the WB, or East Jerusalem.

Even today more than half of the Palestinians don't support an Israel withdrawal from the WB, just as many didn't support the Israeli withdrawal from Gaza.

There is nothing spectacular about the Palestinians. They are one of the most healthiest and educated Arab demographics on the planet. Why else are Egyptians paying money to smuggle themselves into Gaza?

Better economic conditions. There is more poverty in EGYPT than in Gaza, HA!

I don't think you'll find many Israelis who deny the realities of the Palestinian plight, but plight or injustices does not negats the fact that we as individuals can make independent choices, and those choices affect our reality.

So you can blame the Israelis or Americans, or you can blame your own leadership for wasting billions on mansions in Paris and London and weapons.

Israel has a right to live and the Palestinians have no right to "resist" that right.

They know all their aid is tied up in victimhood, so they'll continue with this pallywood bullshit, but when the next intifada comes around the IDF isn't going to be as cautious as it was before.

Don't expect any controlled cease-fires or humanitarian aid passing. I expect an Operation Scorched Earth-like response.

Hey...the Saudis did it without becoming international pariahs and with the tacit support for Obama, why can't Israel?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Scorched_Earth

 

[Sinsear]

Great commentary in the OP.

 

[HGC]

That video is a repulsive piece of lying propaganda.

Why is there no Palestine on the map? Because Muslim Arabs living in the region will not accept a country of Palestine if they are required to give up their racist, imperial quest to destroy Israel and rid the region of Jews.

 

[SamurAchzar]

Arabs rejected an all-Palestine state in 1948. They also neglected to establish a "Palestine" between 1948-1967, when not a single Israeli civilian or soldier was stationed in any inch of Gaza, the WB, or East Jerusalem.

Even today more than half of the Palestinians don't support an Israel withdrawal from the WB, just as many didn't support the Israeli withdrawal from Gaza.

Anyone from the Arab side cares to explain the bolded part above? Why didn't we all hear of Palestinian independence in Gaza and the West Bank before 1967?

 

[MovingTarget]

who cares?

Far too many and far too much.

 

[Lemon law]

That is all that needs to be said. If the Palestinians cannot defeat Israel in combat, then they don't deserve the land. This is the way of the world. Everyone knows this.

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Theflyingpig has just put his finder on the problem with as false statement, by UN doctrine and founding principle there is to be no land won by right of conquest. So theflyingpig is only 64 years out of date.

Israel may still semi-administer what amounts to a military occupation but can never own the land it captured in the 1967&73 wars. And in case no one has noticed, Israel is kinda dragging their feet on returning anything other than the worthless can't grow a weed Sinai desert. Basically some 37 years of foot dragging and still counting.

 

[SamurAchzar]

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Theflyingpig has just put his finder on the problem with as false statement, by UN doctrine and founding principle there is to be no land won by right of conquest. So theflyingpig is only 64 years out of date.

Hmm, I thought that by international law, you get to keep the land that you won if you were the defendant.

 

[Atheus]

Lets go back to where the woman stated: (paraphrasing) " The world divided the land into two parts and the arabs said no."

if they had said yes, fine, ok. there would not be problems today.

arabs started the war from the beginning

So if someone walks into your house and decides to divide it up between him and his friend, leaving you to live in the basement on your own, you would say yes?

 

[ProfJohn]

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Theflyingpig has just put his finder on the problem with as false statement, by UN doctrine and founding principle there is to be no land won by right of conquest. So theflyingpig is only 64 years out of date.

Israel may still semi-administer what amounts to a military occupation but can never own the land it captured in the 1967&73 wars. And in case no one has noticed, Israel is kinda dragging their feet on returning anything other than the worthless can't grow a weed Sinai desert. Basically some 37 years of foot dragging and still counting.

Since when does the UN count for anything??

If Israel turns to the UN and says 'screw you' what is the UN going to do about it? Hold an emergency meeting and pass a resolution proclaiming the Israeli's to be bad people?

 

[rudder]

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Theflyingpig has just put his finder on the problem with as false statement, by UN doctrine and founding principle there is to be no land won by right of conquest. So theflyingpig is only 64 years out of date.

Israel may still semi-administer what amounts to a military occupation but can never own the land it captured in the 1967&73 wars. And in case no one has noticed, Israel is kinda dragging their feet on returning anything other than the worthless can't grow a weed Sinai desert. Basically some 37 years of foot dragging and still counting.

The U.N. also says Israel is a state. If you are going to apply U.N. rules... both sides need to adhere to them.

 

[EagleKeeper]

The non Prof John delusion is and remains, the Palestinian people will never surrender the right to return and never will. And any Israeli delusion that they offered Arafat a fair settlement will likely not stand the test of time.

The other delusion here is that Israel will never accept the "right of return".
From the Israeli POV; the Palestinian Arab people left on their own based on promises that they would come back and have all of Palestine. It was a choice they made and as history has shown, it was the wrong choice; but they expect to be rewarded for it.

 

[Lemon law]

The other delusion here is that Israel will never accept the "right of return".
From the Israeli POV; the Palestinian Arab people left on their own based on promises that they would come back and have all of Palestine. It was a choice they made and as history has shown, it was the wrong choice; but they expect to be rewarded for it.

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The Common Courtesy politically correct Israeli version of the right to return is at best only half true.

But for many Jewish and Palestinian next door neighbors, very soon after the Israeli nation was announced, there their little neighborhood became ground zero in a shooting war between armies, Both Jewish and Palestinian neighbors quite rationally fled their homes rather than being killed. And for that matter they fled to the same places and very soon after the dust had settled and the fighting stopped, they came back together. The Jewish neighbor was welcomed back home and was assisted in repairing his home, the Palestinian was robbed of his home and tossed into a concentration camp. That is the painful and inconvenient injustice Israel refuses to admit.

On the other hand SOME Palestinians joined the Arab side and took up arms against Israeli Jews, SOME Palestinians left for reasons other than simple safety hoping to return to a promised Palestinian State, and SOME fled with their Jewish neighbors and promptly returned back without joining either side. But the Israel version became, since some were Palestinians were bad, ALL were bad as that discrimination was made solely on the basis of religion and not individual conduct.

And the other thing to note, it was the surrounding Arab countries that were the main initial rascals, but it was the Palestinians who paid the price.

 

[Sinsear]

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Theflyingpig has just put his finder on the problem with as false statement, by UN doctrine and founding principle there is to be no land won by right of conquest. So theflyingpig is only 64 years out of date.

UN doctrine....lulz

 

[Lemon law]

And the State of Israel was created by the UN in 1948 and draws any legitimacy as a nation from the UN.

 

[ProfJohn]

And the State of Israel was created by the UN in 1948 and draws any legitimacy as a nation from the UN.

The same can be said for the state of Palestine.

Prior to 1948 there was no Palestine and I can find you quotes from "Palestinian" leaders who go so far as to proclaim that there is no such thing as a Palestinian and that the term is one created for political reasons.

 

[Lemon law]

The same can be said for the state of Palestine.

Prior to 1948 there was no Palestine and I can find you quotes from "Palestinian" leaders who go so far as to proclaim that there is no such thing as a Palestinian and that the term is one created for political reasons.

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Ok Non Prof John, I will bite, we can make a distinction based on that. There were Arabs from other nations who attacked Israel in 1948, and indigenous Arabs and Jews who had land and property rights legitimacy granted to them by the former British mandate.

Israel was at that crossroads in 1948, it could have been the good guys by taking the high road by granting equal rights to all indigenous Jews and Arabs, or chosen to take the low road by granting rights to only Jews.

It still boils down to the same low road thievery by Israel no matter how you cut it.

As for the Arab states who then expelled their Jews, that in no way was the fault of the indigenous Arabs.