Pakistan suspected of retaliating after US raid

[Schadenfroh]

Meant the rivalry between india and pakistan exclusively

In a highly generalized way, bad relations between the US and Pakistan means better relations between the US and India.

 

[DesiPower]

Meant the rivalry between india and pakistan exclusively

I am not sure how it relates this topic, anywho, Pakistan leaked names of CIA operatives - India couldn't care less. Bin Laden was hiding in Pak, Indai had no doubts about it from the beginning. so there was no reason to be pissed...

 

[DesiPower]

In a highly generalized way, bad relations between the US and Pakistan means better relations between the US and India.

That is true in some sense but over all India seeks a better economic relation with US, India does not care about military relation with US, it fact we want to stay away from it. There are cheaper planes, tanks, ships and nuclear fuel available elsewhere.

 

[HomerJS]

Last time I remeber a CIA operatives name being leaked it was done by the Bush administration

 

[DesiPower]

Last time I remeber a CIA operatives name being leaked it was done by the Bush administration

You forgot current administration releasing names of interrogators so that it can prosecute them.

 

[nobodyknows]

We're due for another real war. I mean gloves off 1940's style, reshape re indoctrinate world type war. Pakistan is as good as target as any to start with.

That won't happen.... until after the finicial collaspe.

 

[nobodyknows]

My opinion of the American spirit is so low at this point that IF something like that happened we'd be having discussion on this board along the lines of "well it didn't happen in MY city..."

Live and let die is the new American SOP.

 

[tvarad]

That is true in some sense but over all India seeks a better economic relation with US, India does not care about military relation with US, it fact we want to stay away from it. There are cheaper planes, tanks, ships and nuclear fuel available elsewhere.

You're ill-informed. India has signed on or is in the process of signing for more than $12 billion worth of U.S. military hardware including C-130s, Boeing P-8 maritime reconnaisance aircraft, C-17s etc.. India is spending upwards of USD 100 billion in the next couple of years modernizing it's armed forces and the U.S. is going to get a lot of that business and will probably be the biggest military trading partner.

 

[tvarad]

In a highly generalized way, bad relations between the US and Pakistan means better relations between the US and India.

No, both the U.S. and India have become independent of each other's relationship with Pakistan. The U.S. has been repeatedly telling Pakistan that it's obsession with India is making it vulnerable to the real threat that is from jihadis.

 

[Moonbeam]

In every country in the world there are cunning people who use religious stupidity as a means to power.

In Pakistan there is Al Quaeda and the Taliban and India has it various fanatical religious parties. In the US we have our disgusting Republican Christian fundamentalists and their war on progress.

And in all those countries there are normal intelligent people who want to secular freedoms and democracy.

Every time you talk of or go to way against any of these places you feed the paranoia that supports religious madness.

Every human soul longs to be free and happy. Have some fucking trust in life and your fellow man. Get a grip on your own paranoia if you want to help the world progress.

The nuke is the first answer that comes to a moral coward.

 

[Lemon law]

If a nuke goes off in an American city, all hell will break loose on the world stage. Did anyone here see the movie Southland Tales where part of the backdrop of the story is that terrorists nuked two mid-sized towns in Texas on the 4th of July, resulting in an outright conquest of the Middle East?

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So now WhipperSnapper comes back with movie fantasy as his version of reality.

Maybe America could conquer all of the Middle east, but the reality is and remains, having something is not the same as holding it long term. As it is and its bleeding us dry, we can't even hold on to either Iraq and Afghanistan.

As it and its a date certain the galled the hell out of GWB but he had to accept it, that the last US combat troop has to leave mainland Iraq. As for Afghanistan, Obama has set 2014 as the time to depart.

Meanwhile where does the fantasy come from that Pakistan will nuke the US. As for US aid to Pakistan, the USA and Nato have done far far more damage to the Pakistani economy than that foreign aid is worth. And most Pakistanis will be glad to get rid of the US and Nato, but its hard for the Pakistani government to say no to an Godfather like offer its hard to refuse.

But the point to be made is that Next time the US and Nato goes hat in hand to ANY other country, please just lease us a land based supply line through your country, so we can dope slap your land locked neighbor, they will remember the Pakistani experience and say a polite hell NO.

 

[Jhhnn]

I'm getting the feeling I'm arguing with Lemon Law in disguise.

See, the whole point of the beloved patriot military hiding bin Laden was to ensure that the U.S. stayed in Afghanistan so that they could feather their nests and bleed the infidels dry at the same time. Now that he's been bagged, the Americans can wind down in an orderly fashion and let the CIA take out the rest of the thugs like Mullah Omar, al Zawahiri etc., a nightmare scenario for the pakistanis. This is what's going to happen going forward.

More projection and accusation, combined with just a wee bit of speculation, as well. I take it you have access to information that our govt lacks, huh?

 

[Inspector Jihad]

You're ill-informed. India has signed on or is in the process of signing for more than $12 billion worth of U.S. military hardware including C-130s, Boeing P-8 maritime reconnaisance aircraft, C-17s etc.. India is spending upwards of USD 100 billion in the next couple of years modernizing it's armed forces and the U.S. is going to get a lot of that business and will probably be the biggest military trading partner.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/04/28/india-defence-us-idUSL3E7FS3KJ20110428

 

[busydude]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/04/28/india-defence-us-idUSL3E7FS3KJ20110428

What tvarad said is basically right. You link pertains to the multirole fighter jet deal which makes up a small portion of the total allocated budget.

 

[JSt0rm]

You forgot current administration releasing names of interrogators so that it can prosecute them.

Link?

 

[shangshang]

I'm amused that some you guys that STUPID to believe in the story.

The beloved patriot government is just pretending to act "mad" over the Americans because that's how their people would expect.

Fact of the matter is, it was the beloved patriot ISI who tipped off the Americans about bin Laden.

Some of you are just stupid. But go on, act mad like an armchair hero That's what you are.

 

[The Green Bean]

Nothing will happen. A few politicians on both sides will bicker and call for war to gain local popularity and after a few weeks things will be back to normal--just like during the Raymond Davis case.

 

[Sinsear]

We oughta cut all foreign aid to that shithole and send it to India instead. (i would say use it in our own country, but we all know that never happens)

 

[tvarad]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/04/28/india-defence-us-idUSL3E7FS3KJ20110428

It's not pertinent to this thread but, basically, the U.S. was fielding '70s era technology F-16's and F-18's versus the next generation in the Eurofighter Typhoon and Rafale, which is why they were rejected (I would have done the same). There are plenty of other fish in the Indian military pond for the U.S. to catch as I enumerated.

 

[tvarad]

In every country in the world there are cunning people who use religious stupidity as a means to power.

In Pakistan there is Al Quaeda and the Taliban and India has it various fanatical religious parties. In the US we have our disgusting Republican Christian fundamentalists and their war on progress.

Every country has it's religious fanatics of course. But it is only Pakistani religious fanatics who have a country. Which is what makes it scary.

The nuke is the first answer that comes to a moral coward.

You are describing Pakistan to a T. Here's a country which has no gonads to take India straight-on so it begged, borrowed and stole it's nukes and proceeded to set up jihadi groups to do it's dirty work. Whenever they do something outrageous and India threatens to retaliate (like during the Kargil war and 26/11) it puts it's hand on the nuclear button and says "stand back, or I'll blow you up".

If anything, given the hell that Pakistan has created for the whole world (almost every terrorist attack has some connection to it), affected countries have shown admirable restraint.

 

[Lemon law]

Every country has it's religious fanatics of course. But it is only Pakistani religious fanatics who have a country. Which is what makes it scary.

You are describing Pakistan to a T. Here's a country which has no gonads to take India straight-on so it begged, borrowed and stole it's nukes and proceeded to set up jihadi groups to do it's dirty work. Whenever they do something outrageous and India threatens to retaliate (like during the Kargil war and 26/11) it puts it's hand on the nuclear button and says "stand back, or I'll blow you up".

If anything, given the hell that Pakistan has created for the whole world (almost every terrorist attack has some connection to it), affected countries have shown admirable restraint.

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I somewhat can not blame tvarad for being a total pro-Indian fan boy.

But the whole key for defusing Pakistani and Indian tensions would be for the USA to push for a mutually agreed solution for the Kashmiri questions. But that brings up another question, what is the true US foreign policy based on? Do we the US desire a stable world, or do we just want to divide and conquer by exploiting regional differences?

But as a point of thought, the Indian energy future may depend on a natural gas pipeline from Iran to India. And that too will never fly without a stable Afghanistan and Pakistan.

 

[busydude]

But the whole key for defusing Pakistani and Indian tensions would be for the USA to push for a mutually agreed solution for the Kashmiri questions. But that brings up another question, what is the true US foreign policy based on? Do we the US desire a stable world, or do we just want to divide and conquer by exploiting regional differences?

USA has said, repeatedly, that only India and Pakistan to engage in dialogue to solve their differences, and it would never involve/mediate on the issue of Kashmir.

 

[tvarad]

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I somewhat can not blame tvarad for being a total pro-Indian fan boy.

But the whole key for defusing Pakistani and Indian tensions would be for the USA to push for a mutually agreed solution for the Kashmiri questions. But that brings up another question, what is the true US foreign policy based on? Do we the US desire a stable world, or do we just want to divide and conquer by exploiting regional differences?

But as a point of thought, the Indian energy future may depend on a natural gas pipeline from Iran to India. And that too will never fly without a stable Afghanistan and Pakistan.

I simply wish you idiots who have no clue about the history of that part of the world would stop spouting such nonsense. I will be the first one to say that Kashmir should be handed over to Pakistan if that would solve the problem permanently. But I also know that this is more like handing over Czechoslovakia to Hitler thinking that there would be peace-love-and-happiness all around. Look how that turned out.
​

Read up this article by a Pakistani writer that I'm reproducing verbatim to give you a sense of what Pakistani society is like today.

Smoker's Corner: Not my faith, really
Nadeem F. Paracha (Dawn, May 8, 2011)

Extremism never rests. It keeps growing like a cancer until it completely devours its host. It is nobody’s friend. It only deals in might gained from coercion. What’s more, even after it has defeated its ideological opponents, it goes on to destroy even those supporters whom it deems too soft or moderate.
This is an aspect of extremism that a lot of its more ‘moderate’ supporters in Pakistan have not comprehended. Educated men and women can be heard and seen concocting outlandish explanations and justifications in a bid to sympathetically define the economic and political reasons behind religious extremists’ acts of terrorism. What they do not realise is that to the extremists these sympathetic ‘moderates’ are as much infidels as any westerner or a non-Muslim.
It seems many moderate Pakistanis who ( rather mindlessly) echo the usual anti-West rhetoric doing the rounds in mosques, madressahs, drawing rooms and TV studios do so for two reasons. But rest assured a firm belief in the ideology of the extremists is the least of these. Because after all, one either has to be clinically insane or stark, raving crazy to fall for an ideology that is based on utter hatred and a ferocious appetite for human blood.
The most prominent reason behind the ideological pitfalls that many Pakistanis find themselves in has something to do with a state of mind that is a culmination of fear, ignorance and guilt. Thanks to the maliciously tempered history taught in schools and colleges, I have noticed that very few young Pakistanis have any ability left in them to question (in an informed manner) what is dished out to them by the courts, the state, the clerics and the televangelists.
This, despite the availability of a vast treasure of knowledge available in bookstores and libraries with which a questioning mind can easily puncture the spew of half-truths and myths spun into the nation’s collective psyche—all in the name of defending the country’s Islamic credentials and the so-called ideology. For example, some ten years ago when Islamic evangelists were out in force asking Pakistanis to stop saying khuda hafiz and replace it with Allah hafiz, no one bothered to ask them why. They heard the word Allah and that was it. No questions asked.
The same social preachers then got enough leverage to go on and ask Pakistanis to stop saying wa-alaikum assalaam to non-Muslims who greet them with asalamalaikum. Sure, these are trivial nuances but the sort that go a long way in gradually turning society into an intolerant whole that some men and women would actually like Pakistan to be. Their weapon is distorted history and selective interpretations of Islamic laws unquestioningly understood as being correct by a majority of Pakistanis.
Learned, rational and modern Muslim leaders and intellectuals of yore like Jinnah and Sir Syed Ahmed Khan have gradually been turned into near-fanatics by those writing our textbooks and harbouring blind hatred for Hindus. So the great leaders of the past are taught in schools as being the original purveyors of a theocratic state, a notion that has no roots in reality whatsoever.
Historians of note, who have convincingly rubbished the history taught in schools, and peddled by the state and its right-wing allies, have been sidelined. A concerted effort to subdue and repress rationalist Islamic scholars of yore and today has been underway by elements pushing in narratives of political Islamists and even some obvious crackpots to portray a highly aggressive, xenophobic and militant image and understanding of Islam and Pakistan.
Through decades of disseminating fantasies of glory and myths about what a Pakistani Muslim is to believe and behave like, advocators of a hybrid version of faith and national ideology—in which traditional understanding of the faith is updated by a myopic and paranoid understanding of modern society—have been successful in turning much of society into an knee-jerk mass of people. This mob has little or no capacity to think beyond what is handed out as faith and patriotism to them.
What goes missing in such a setting is the ability to think and reflect. Knee-jerk applause for so-called popular Islamist causes and conservative social behavior make it a society that is both fodder and food for nihilism—all in the glorious name of jihad, patriotism and Islam.
This misplaced understanding of nationalism and religion is not only the vocation of crackpots and some clerics, but it is also found in our courts of law, the intelligence apparatus, the military and politicians alike. Their propagated goals are the supposed Islamisation and sovereignty of the Pakistani state. But the truth is that so far the many actions taken to achieve this goal have only managed to make society collapse inwards and gradually turn Pakistan into a kind of forbidden island whose inhabitants simply refuse to give up ideological cannibalism, even if this means their existential, economic and diplomatic exclusion from the rest of the world.