Pakistan finally stepping up the fight against the Taliban!

[daniel49]

Did you see the article where the religious clerics of Pakistan issued a fatwa(sic) on thier new president for flirting with Palin...lol

 

[Lemon law]

Once again the major laugh line in the entire new palehorse post is "Once again, I've said all along that the economic, political, and military prongs must be acted upon in parallel. Hell, I said as much in this very thread!"

Funny thing palehorse, I agree with you, what is totally missing action is any Nato or US followup to make it happen. Which is why I still say "the one great constant is that the USA & Nato have so underfunded the resources needed, and hence have never been able TO EVER TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE CURRENT SITUATION."

Then it becomes quite apprent that palehorse ears are stuck up his ass when he says "When are you going to understand that the Taiban have never had anything the people of Afghanistan would deem "appealing." they control the populous through unhindered violent oppression, NOT through an inspired ideological alternative to the central government. People do not "turn to" the Taliban for help. They merely cower in front of them if/when the Taliban shows up in their area."

When are you going to get a clue palehorse, as damn bad as the taliban is, if their was an iota of truth to "Once again, I've said all along that the economic, political" was there in any way, the Taliban would be toast. The fact is that Nato has yet to even start, and as a result, the taliban is coming back. Granted the Taliban sucks, but Nato sucks even worse because they have failed to deliver anything but corruption and anarchy.

Then palehorse differs with JOS as he says "Not 8if Petraeus has his way with the lashkars, as he did with the Awakening Councils throughout Iraq... hmmm... there's a thought (read: "hint")... " I might agree with you there, but you hated it when Karzia sought a political accommodation with the Taliban, and now you somehow believe that a Pakistani offensive that basically pisses in the soup of any potential lashkar
initiative will magically advance future progress?

Believe it or not palehorse, we share the same end goals, we just bitterly disagree on tactics. After seven years of your tactics, I would think you would be more open minded about where you have failed,

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
Believe it or not palehorse, we share the same end goals, we just bitterly disagree on tactics. After seven years of your tactics, I would think you would be more open minded about where you have failed

You might want to look up the difference between "tactics" and "strategy"... then again, where did you learn about either of those? the interweb!?

The tactics and strategies I desire for implementation in Afghanistan/Pakistan have not even been tried during the previous seven years, so that line you always write about "your tactics failing" is entirely bullshit.

And yes, JoS and I very much disagree on the issue of the great Gen. Petraeus.

 

[Lemon law]

For what its worth, I agree with you and not with JOS on the possibility that Petraeus may implement smarter strategies and tactics. In terms of distinguishing between the strategy and tactics, you may insist they are different, but in my mind, its 2 nickles of one equals a dime of the other so I use the words loosely and interchangeably. An overall strategy implies the tactics.

But regardless if its your failure, or Nato's failure, or whose failure, its a group failure allowing Al-Quida to tie up our military in a quagmire. And one reason I oppose these unrestricted Pakistani and Nato incursions into the tribal areas of Pakistan is the fact that the resources are not even close to being in place to take advantage of the basic stirring up of a hornets nest. Maybe a President Obama or less likely a President McCain will allocate the economic aid, forge new political alliances, and add military troop increases to make such a future strategy viable, but right now, without those pre conditions, stirring up a hornets nests is likely to backfire and make any Afghanistan occupation a much harder problem to solve.

Meanwhile the Afghan people lack a government that is able to do anything for its people.

 

[ranmaniac]

British Commander says war in Afghanistan cannot be won.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/200...afghan_taliban_britain

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
In terms of distinguishing between the strategy and tactics, you may insist they are different, but in my mind, its 2 nickles of one equals a dime of the other so I use the words loosely and interchangeably. An overall strategy implies the tactics.

You're not alone... most armchair generals make the same amateur mistake.

But regardless if its your failure, or Nato's failure, or whose failure, its a group failure allowing Al-Quida to tie up our military in a quagmire. And one reason I oppose these unrestricted Pakistani and Nato incursions into the tribal areas of Pakistan is the fact that the resources are not even close to being in place to take advantage of the basic stirring up of a hornets nest. Maybe a President Obama or less likely a President McCain will allocate the economic aid, forge new political alliances, and add military troop increases to make such a future strategy viable, but right now, without those pre conditions, stirring up a hornets nests is likely to backfire and make any Afghanistan occupation a much harder problem to solve.

If certain respectable commanders have their way, I believe you'll hear more about the tribal lashkars in the months to come...

 

[Lemon law]

Since lashkars come from the local populace, I have to agree that they may be what is needed. Or they may turn anti government and become corrupting institutions that turn into power centers in their own right.
The enemy of my enemy often turns into just a fair weather friend. And if lashkars turn on other lashkars, its 1985 again and just the start of a bigger Afghan civil war that then adds in the tribal areas of Pakistan
to the larger civil war. The birth of Al-Quida can be traced to exactly such a situation.

Seemingly,arm chair generals and professional generals have an equal willingness to roll the dice. A really dangerous trend if we do not understand inter tribal dynamics that stretch far past any international borders.

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
So is this the last front in the war on terror?

Far from.

I guess it would be the second to last, with the last being Hezbollah and Hamas perhaps.

Either way this is good news. Pakistan had to wake up to the mess they were allowing to happen in their country. It is like a tumor, if you ignore it then it just gets bigger and bigger until it kills you.

I am certain that given the choice between religious tyranny and freedom people will pick freedom every time, we just need to give them that choice.

If Bush wouldn't have supported the Pakistani dictator for so long but would have pushed for elections earlier there might have been a competent government taking action against the extremists long ago already.
All the time that Pakistan was hailed as friendly nation in the battle against terrorism the Pakistani government didn't do a thing against them, and refused other countries to hunt down Al Qaida and the Taliban in Pakistan too. But Iraq was more important than going after the ones who were responsible for 9/11...