Pakistan cuts off NATO supply routes

[Schadenfroh]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/11/26/us-pakistan-nato-idUSTRE7AP03S20111126

(Reuters) - NATO helicopters and fighter jets attacked two military outposts in northwest Pakistan on Saturday, killing as many as 28 troops and plunging U.S.-Pakistan relations, already deeply frayed, further into crisis.

Pakistan retaliated by shutting down vital NATO supply routes into Afghanistan, used for sending in just under a third of the alliance's supplies.

Looks like a cross-border raid into Pakistan might have been the straw that broke the camel's back. Details are blurry, but it looks like Pakistan attacked NATO forces that crossed into Pakistan to attack militants.

The primary supply route is now gone. I assume all aid to Pakistan will be cut shortly unless this decision is reversed soon. Looks like our alliance with Pakistan could be over. The Afghan war will soon be unsustainable, unless the US pays a big bribe to Pakistan to reopen the supply routes.

In the coming months, unless the routes are reopened and NATO & Pakistan kiss and make up, we will likely watch Afghanistan plunge further into chaos, NATO's effort undone, Karzai beheaded by Taliban and Friends (one thing The West and The Taliban are united in), and Pakistan being ripped apart by internal divisions created by years of selling out to America, Russia, China, etc.

 

[Spikesoldier]

looks like the us is going to pave pakistan into a nice parking lot, which will be a good springboard/staging area for the invasion of iran.

 

[Jaskalas]

The Afghan war was lost the moment Bush invaded Iraq. This is just bringing us closer to the realization of that failure, which I suspect was inevitable from 2003.

 

[ichy]

It's so painfully obvious that Pakistan is no friend or ally of the United States. We should either stop dicking around and fuck them up good or admit that we don't have the stomach for this kind of a war and go home. Not like Afghanistan will be anything other than a backward-ass, barbaric shithole when we're done.

 

[Howard]

Good. Let's get the hell out of there and treat them like enemies like we should've done a while ago.

 

[DesiPower]

Good time and excuse to get the fvck out of there. Save time and money and stop dealing with animals. At the current time so right minded person can provide a single credible excuse to stay there anymore. Save lives save money.

 

[Lemon law]

As our OP points out, "but it looks like Pakistan attacked NATO forces that crossed into Pakistan to attack militants."

And if that is correct, Nato is in clear violation of the agreements GWB made with Mussarrif. Because Pakistan never agreed to be a Junior partner ally with the USA or any of the stuff the American people seem to assume.

All Pakistan agreed to do is to lease, to Nato, a land based supply line into Afghanistan. With the stipulation that while on Pakistani soil, Nato is agreed to engage in zero military actions.

Its Nato that has violated the agreement by engaging in military activity inside Pakistan and Pakistan is reasserting its rights. If Nato is willing to honor its agreements and cease militarily activity this may become a swiftly forgotten incident, if not, the US taxpayer will start bitching at the cost when Nato has to supply itself from the air.

Of course, there is another solution, all Uncle Sammy has to do is go to Iran and ask to lease a land supply line into Afghanistan

 

[Kadarin]

Good. Let's get the hell out of there and treat them like enemies like we should've done a while ago.

Yes.

 

[badb0y]

It's time to leave Afghanistan, FFS.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Question begs to be answered - what was the original interaction that forced the Pakistani army to feel they were being attacked?

Timeline from that point is easy.

• Pakistan retaliated and had the ability to overrun NATO.
• NATO calls in air strikes
• Pakistan disengages and everyone now backs off/down to assess situation.
• Multiple deaths from airstrike

 

[Dman8777]

It's time to leave Afghanistan, FFS.

Definitely. Stop throwing away cash and leave that part of the world to sort their problems out. Al Qaeda is all but gone at this point. The Taliban suck but all we're doing there right now is delaying their eventual takeover, not preventing it.

 

[EagleKeeper]

We went into Afghanistan to remove the Taliban from supporting AQ.

OBL is done; the Taliban are routed; nothing has been heard of from Omar.

Give up the nation building concept -let Kabul clean up its mess.
Monitor Pakistan for nuke issues and get out of that area of the region.

It may be of strategic value to China; Russia learned that it is a shithole and does not want anything to do with it, Pakistan can not take care of itself and Iran is smart enough to leave that area along -gains it nothing.

So as others have stated; why do we need to be there.
There initial reasons are completed.

 

[Jhhnn]

The Afghan war was lost the moment Bush invaded Iraq. This is just bringing us closer to the realization of that failure, which I suspect was inevitable from 2003.

You mean it was all just a political ploy to create support for the invasion of Iraq? That the WoT was a phony from the start? An exercise in fearmongering to achieve electoral victory?

Couldn't be!

 

[woolfe9999]

We went into Afghanistan to remove the Taliban from supporting AQ.

OBL is done; the Taliban are routed; nothing has been heard of from Omar.

Give up the nation building concept -let Kabul clean up its mess.
Monitor Pakistan for nuke issues and get out of that area of the region.

It may be of strategic value to China; Russia learned that it is a shithole and does not want anything to do with it, Pakistan can not take care of itself and Iran is smart enough to leave that area along -gains it nothing.

So as others have stated; why do we need to be there.
There initial reasons are completed.

This is all true, but we should be leaving Afghanistan on our own terms and time table, not because Pakistan cuts off our supply routes.

- wolf

 

[Jhhnn]

This is all true, but we should be leaving Afghanistan on our own terms and time table, not because Pakistan cuts off our supply routes.

- wolf

That's a bit arrogant, don't you think?

We entered Afghanistan with Pakistan's tacit consent & support, and there's not really a viable option to maintain our presence there w/o that. Well, short of invading Pakistan or making nice with Iran, which seems unlikely. Afghanistan is completely landlocked, so we necessarily must enter & supply through an adjoining nation or several nations... even if by air.

Not that I pretend to know what's going on, at all, but it seems that we've mis-played our hand wrt the Pakistanis more than once... that we may be wearing out our welcome as a consequence...

 

[woolfe9999]

That's a bit arrogant, don't you think?

We entered Afghanistan with Pakistan's tacit consent & support, and there's not really a viable option to maintain our presence there w/o that. Well, short of invading Pakistan or making nice with Iran, which seems unlikely. Afghanistan is completely landlocked, so we necessarily must enter & supply through an adjoining nation or several nations... even if by air.

Not that I pretend to know what's going on, at all, but it seems that we've mis-played our hand wrt the Pakistanis more than once... that we may be wearing out our welcome as a consequence...

Don't care if it's "arrogant." Your second point may be correct, however, that if our supply route is cut we may not have much of a choice. Your third point, blaming the US for our detiorating relationship with Pakistan is matter of opinion. I think the Pakistanis had a lot to do with it as well.

 

[PingviN]

Jeez, why does the Pakistani has to be so unreasonable. Not like NATO forces attacked a military post in Pakistani territory killing several of the Pakistani military force.

...oh wait

How about staying the fuck out of Pakistan?

 

[Jhhnn]

Don't care if it's "arrogant." Your second point may be correct, however, that if our supply route is cut we may not have much of a choice. Your third point, blaming the US for our detiorating relationship with Pakistan is matter of opinion. I think the Pakistanis had a lot to do with it as well.

I think that airstrikes on what are known or should be known Pakistani military positions is over the line, don't you? Particularly when the Pakistanis told us where they are...

GPS is a wonderful thing- all our combat units have it, and it's accurate to within a few yards... add a laser rangefinder & a compass to know the precise position of any potential target or non-target, the latter being clearly designated on your freaking map... if it's not, then there's a massive cranio-rectal infarction in play...

 

[PeshakJang]

Chances are they were killed while wearing their Taliban hats.

It's a FACT that most beloved patriot soldiers on these border outposts are only beloved patriot soldiers when the US is asking. The other 23 hours a day they actively support fighters wishing to cross the border. They will openly fire on US outposts (big guns, not just rifles) knowing that the US forces can't shoot back. They're all fucking enemy. It's about time somebody fucked them up.

In short, I am glad that every one of those shitbags are dead. Exceptionally glad. Anybody else that's been around the border will say the exact same thing.

 

[woolfe9999]

I think that airstrikes on what are known or should be known Pakistani military positions is over the line, don't you? Particularly when the Pakistanis told us where they are...

GPS is a wonderful thing- all our combat units have it, and it's accurate to within a few yards... add a laser rangefinder & a compass to know the precise position of any potential target or non-target, the latter being clearly designated on your freaking map... if it's not, then there's a massive cranio-rectal infarction in play...

My comments had nothing to do with defending this particular act. I don't even know exactly what happened on the ground here. Anyway, there is a long and complicated relationship here. I just don't think the US is entirely responsible for the break down of that relationship.

 

[cybrsage]

Couldn't be!

Which is why it isn't.

 

[cybrsage]

Jeez, why does the Pakistani has to be so unreasonable. Not like NATO forces attacked a military post in Pakistani territory killing several of the Pakistani military force.

...oh wait

How about staying the fuck out of Pakistan?

You are the type of person who said "we cannot bomb the bridge the VietCong are using to resupply themselves because part of the bridge touches China".

If the bad guys are finding safe harbor in Pakistan, you blow them up in Pakistan.


The problem with Pakistan is that the ISS and the Military are two distinct and seperate, and closely matched, powers...and the ruler of Pakistan only controls the military. The ISS supports the terrorist cells while the Military does not.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Sabre rattling - now they want the drone base closed and people off it.

 

[Balt]

Friendly relations with Pakistan may be a lost cause at this point. Looks like we'll have to ship supplies into Afghanistan the expensive way.

That being the case, it may be time to start thinking about how we can improve our friendly relations with India even further. It's not like we have to worry about pissing off the Pakistanis anymore.

 

[Jhhnn]

Chances are they were killed while wearing their Taliban hats.

It's a FACT that most beloved patriot soldiers on these border outposts are only beloved patriot soldiers when the US is asking. The other 23 hours a day they actively support fighters wishing to cross the border. They will openly fire on US outposts (big guns, not just rifles) knowing that the US forces can't shoot back. They're all fucking enemy. It's about time somebody fucked them up.

In short, I am glad that every one of those shitbags are dead. Exceptionally glad. Anybody else that's been around the border will say the exact same thing.

While it's clear you believe that to be true, It's every bit as clear that strategic considerations outweigh the tactical ones. Well, unless we're trying to bad-guy the Pakis, use it as cover for withdrawal, in which case it would make sense.