Pakistan Army Firing at US Forces: Direct fire between 2 nuclear armed countries

[piasabird]

Isnt diesel and gasoline made from the same oil?

We could significantly supplement our gas and diesel consumption with over the road 18 wheeler hybrids that burn natl Gas. Beefing up our rail systems might be a good idea also. Maybe we need solar powered derrigibles (Joke). Maybe some kind of trucks that get their power from the electricity in the road and then float on top of the road on magnetic fields.

I thought some nuclear Missles could deliver like 16 individual warheads in one shot???

 

[CLite]

The bottom line is we need to prop up Pakistan because if a nuclear power devolves into a failed state then there will be nukes/dirty bombs all over the place. We could first strike all their nuclear sites, and assassinate all their nuclear scientists/engineers but that would turn most of the world against us. If only the real world was as easy as internet tough talk.

 

[Nebor]

I thought some nuclear Missles could deliver like 16 individual warheads in one shot???

They can. Those giant, minuteman type ICBMs can carry many warheads. But they also cause Russia and China to think WW3 is kicking off.

That's why the nuclear armed Tomahawks are so slick. They fly low and fast, so much so that most air defense systems won't even detect them, and certainly won't identify or engage them in time to stop the flash.

 

[Jaskalas]

The bottom line is we need to prop up Pakistan because if a nuclear power devolves into a failed state then there will be nukes/dirty bombs all over the place. We could first strike all their nuclear sites, and assassinate all their nuclear scientists/engineers but that would turn most of the world against us. If only the real world was as easy as internet tough talk.

How does one best prop up Pakistan?

I don't imagine it's by blowing holes in their country or by killing their people.

 

[Infohawk]

The bottom line is we need to prop up Pakistan because if a nuclear power devolves into a failed state then there will be nukes/dirty bombs all over the place. We could first strike all their nuclear sites, and assassinate all their nuclear scientists/engineers but that would turn most of the world against us. If only the real world was as easy as internet tough talk.

If a country needs to be propped up by an outside country, isn't it already a failed state?

 

[JTsyo]

...


http://washingtonexaminer.com/politics/2011/10/us-confirms-attacks-pakistani-military-units


U.S. confirms attacks by Pakistani military units.


KABUL, Afghanistan -- Pakistani military units fired shots at American and Afghan government troops along the Afghanistan border several times over the past year, in encounters the United States has downplayed but that illustrate the fraying relations between the countries, according to officials.
On Wednesday, Afghanistan's foreign ministry issued an angry warning to Pakistan after claiming that about 300 rockets had been launched across the Pakistani border into the Nuristan and Kunar provinces of Afghanistan, killing an unspecified number of civilians.

Maybe they were targeting terrorists :hmm:

 

[JTsyo]

Isnt diesel and gasoline made from the same oil?

We could significantly supplement our gas and diesel consumption with over the road 18 wheeler hybrids that burn natl Gas. Beefing up our rail systems might be a good idea also. Maybe we need solar powered derrigibles (Joke). Maybe some kind of trucks that get their power from the electricity in the road and then float on top of the road on magnetic fields.

I thought some nuclear Missles could deliver like 16 individual warheads in one shot???

MIRV

Testing of the Peacekeeper re-entry vehicles, all eight (ten capable) fired from only one missile. Each line represents the path of a warhead which, if it were live, would detonate with the explosive power of twenty-five Hiroshima-style weapons.

Ten targets would probably be 25% of most countries' population.

 

[Howard]

Maybe they were targeting terrorists :hmm:

The difference is, they're not good at it.

 

[hal2kilo]

This is true. One of the Ohio-class subs that's been fitted with the *shhh* nuclear-tipped tomahawk load vs. the conventional ICBM load can deliver enough ordinance all by itself to virtually wipe out every population center on any given continent within a shockingly short period of time.

If it's a Trident, you don't even need to be in the area. A D5 has an enormous range.

 

[bfdd]

Isnt diesel and gasoline made from the same oil?

We could significantly supplement our gas and diesel consumption with over the road 18 wheeler hybrids that burn natl Gas. Beefing up our rail systems might be a good idea also. Maybe we need solar powered derrigibles (Joke). Maybe some kind of trucks that get their power from the electricity in the road and then float on top of the road on magnetic fields.

I thought some nuclear Missles could deliver like 16 individual warheads in one shot???

We can make diesel from oil shale and tar sands without any real issue. Quality stuff too, we could completely get rid of our dependence on ME oil if we would shift to a diesel hybrid model for transportation.

 

[5to1baby1in5]

lol, there are other things we can do to offset that. switching to diesel instead of gasoline for instance would make our dependence on ME oil not even exist because we can make all the diesel we want from tar sands or shale. not to mention diesel hybrids should be more efficient than a gasoline hybrid. how do you feel about going after shale and reprocessing it?

Diesel and gasoline come from the same source... Oil. Refineries can be tuned to output more/less Diesel, gasoline and heating oil from the same feed stock. They adjust the throughput of the various processing units both seasonally, and by the price of gasoline/diesel. If you run your Cat Cracker harder, you get more gasoline, but less diesel.

There is a crap load of oil bound up in the Canadian tar sands, and even more in the CO/UT oil shale (1.5 Trillion BBLS). The problem is that you can not just pump it out of the ground. The tar sands are currently dug out of the ground and hauled to a processing facility. Only a small fraction of the tar sands can be mined, the rest is too far under ground. In-situe processing of tar sands requires forcing steam into the deposits to release the trapped oil. Both of these processes use a lot of wate (a whole river's worth), and it's pissing off the locals. There is lots of oil there, but we can not currently produce it at a high enough rate to satisfy North America's current demand.

It is currently cheaper to pump it from the ground in the ME and ship it than it is to process it from these sources.

There is research into in-situe processing which will help reduce oil shale costs. http://www.amso.net/About/Who-we-are.aspx If their pilot plant is successful, we may get up to 100,000 BPD of production from their lease. This would support a large refinery, and there are other producers and other leases in the area.

If the price of oil stays high ($80/BBL?) then production is profitable. If the cost of oil drops back down to $50/BBL, then it is not profitable. This is why the bottom fell out of the oil shale business after the 1970's.

 

[Arkaign]

If it's a Trident, you don't even need to be in the area. A D5 has an enormous range.

True. Kinda different way to a similar end result.

Ohio can hold 24 Tridents in SSBN buildout, or 154 Tomahawks in SSGN form. The nuke-tipped Tomahawks are a bit smaller range and yield of course.

 

[grebe925]

So you like the idea of $10 gallon gasoline?

If you add up the costs of the wars the U.S. has fought or is fighting as well as the infrastructure it has set up to protect it's oil-supplies and add it to the market cost of oil, aren't we close to that number already?

 

[KingGheedora]

I have never understood why we give them so much aid.

 

[bfdd]

Diesel and gasoline come from the same source... Oil. Refineries can be tuned to output more/less Diesel, gasoline and heating oil from the same feed stock. They adjust the throughput of the various processing units both seasonally, and by the price of gasoline/diesel. If you run your Cat Cracker harder, you get more gasoline, but less diesel.

There is a crap load of oil bound up in the Canadian tar sands, and even more in the CO/UT oil shale (1.5 Trillion BBLS). The problem is that you can not just pump it out of the ground. The tar sands are currently dug out of the ground and hauled to a processing facility. Only a small fraction of the tar sands can be mined, the rest is too far under ground. In-situe processing of tar sands requires forcing steam into the deposits to release the trapped oil. Both of these processes use a lot of wate (a whole river's worth), and it's pissing off the locals. There is lots of oil there, but we can not currently produce it at a high enough rate to satisfy North America's current demand.

It is currently cheaper to pump it from the ground in the ME and ship it than it is to process it from these sources.

There is research into in-situe processing which will help reduce oil shale costs. http://www.amso.net/About/Who-we-are.aspx If their pilot plant is successful, we may get up to 100,000 BPD of production from their lease. This would support a large refinery, and there are other producers and other leases in the area.

If the price of oil stays high ($80/BBL?) then production is profitable. If the cost of oil drops back down to $50/BBL, then it is not profitable. This is why the bottom fell out of the oil shale business after the 1970's.

Yes, I know where gasoline and diesel fuel come from. I'm saying if people want to get off ME oil there are measures that can be taken and even if diesel costs more to produce a diesel hybrid design should net more mileage than a gasoline hybrid design so it really shouldn't raise our fuel costs much at all. The cost of pulling shale out of the ground is going down and if we would actually allow people to start going after it besides holding them back we'd get even more innovation.

There are some other members of the forum with experience working in the oil/energy industry as well, I wonder what their opinions are on it. I have about 3 years experience in that industry, but I know the others have more.

 

[yllus]

One of many problems is that the Pakistani Army is so schizophrenic and lacking in discipline that you can't ever tell if this is a rogue band of soldiers who opened fire or a quiet order given from higher up.

While it's likely satisfying to daydream of revenge, when it comes down to it there are few who would order a nuclear or even conventional response to something like this that would kill 180 million people, or even 10,000.

 

[spacejamz]

MIRV

Ten targets would probably be 25% of most countries' population.

Wait...I know what that is...It is a snow cone maker.....

 

[airdata]

What was the context of these events?

I'm guessing it was something about a foreign military encroaching on their borders.

If I were pakistan I'd probably be pissed to if somebody claimed to have killed bin laden in my country and then destroyed any evidence of the event after changing their story over and over about what actually went down.

 

[OlafSicky]

I'm guessing it was something about a foreign military encroaching on their borders.

If I were pakistan I'd probably be pissed to if somebody claimed to have killed bin laden in my country and then destroyed any evidence of the event after changing their story over and over about what actually went down.

Pleas tell us more about your hate of America:\

 

[Thump553]

That's just Pakistan's way of rejecting our aid-they are returning the missles we bought and gave to them.

 

[grebe925]

I'm guessing it was something about a foreign military encroaching on their borders.

If I were pakistan I'd probably be pissed to if somebody claimed to have killed bin laden in my country and then destroyed any evidence of the event after changing their story over and over about what actually went down.

That's a laugh given that Pakistan has been violating it's neighbors' borders with impunity almost since it became a country. Not only that, it's military has the blood of millions of Bangladeshis, Indians, Afghans, Americans and God knows what other nationalities given that almost any terrorist attack around the world can be traced back to Pakistan.

 

[airdata]

Pleas tell us more about your hate of America:\

You're an idiot if anything I posted suggested that I hate America.

If a foreign country was pushing it's military over our borders, we'd be at attention too.

If there was a super villain supposedly hiding out in america and a foreign government claimed to have killed him without showing any proof of his death, and disposed of the body in the ocean.. we'd have some questions for them.

 

[Howard]

You're an idiot if anything I posted suggested that I hate America.

If a foreign country was pushing it's military over our borders, we'd be at attention too.

If there was a super villain supposedly hiding out in america and a foreign government claimed to have killed him without showing any proof of his death, and disposed of the body in the ocean.. we'd have some questions for them.

Questions? Don't you mean we would laugh at the joke?

 

[EagleKeeper]

You're an idiot if anything I posted suggested that I hate America.

If a foreign country was pushing it's military over our borders, we'd be at attention too.

If there was a super villain supposedly hiding out in america and a foreign government claimed to have killed him without showing any proof of his death, and disposed of the body in the ocean.. we'd have some questions for them.

Video, DNA and statements from Naval officers carry no weight with you?
Along with implicit acknowledgement from Pakistan? What do you desire, a martyr at Gitmo?

 

[child of wonder]

WE HAVE TO STAY IN THE MIDDLE EAST!!! WE HAVE TO MAKE IT ALL NICE FOR WHEN JESUS COMES BACK!!!!!!

Seriously, fuck the entire Middle East. Let's leave them all to their own devices, including Israel, and develop alternative sources of energy so we can stop importing any oil from the region.

Let the cruel nut jobs go broke.