P4 vs Xeon vs Athlon vs Opteron for AutoCAD

[Macro2]

RE:"So before you start to make highly uneducated statements like "the Athlon smokes the P4 in AutoCAD", maybe you should become a CAD user"

I've used AutoCad all the way back to a i386. (Yeah it was DOS) 14 years. When I started paying attention to Athlon Benchmarks, about 4 years ago the Athlon was the clear leader in AutoCad. I think it still is? Does it mean anything...maybe not but whenever Intel wins a bench by 5% it's a smoke job so what the heck. <G>

RE:"I wrote a script file that generates 2D projections from a 3D AutoCAD model, and it runs only nominally faster on my 2.53GHz P4 than it does on a 933MHz Pentium III computer."

I know that...but how do you expect Intel to get an upgrade $$$? hehe.


Mac

 

[jbond04]

Originally posted by: Macro2
RE:"So before you start to make highly uneducated statements like "the Athlon smokes the P4 in AutoCAD", maybe you should become a CAD user"

I've used AutoCad all the way back to a i386. (Yeah it was DOS) 14 years. When I started paying attention to Athlon Benchmarks, about 4 years ago the Athlon was the clear leader in AutoCad. I think it still is? Does it mean anything...maybe not but whenever Intel wins a bench by 5% it's a smoke job so what the heck. <G>

RE:"I wrote a script file that generates 2D projections from a 3D AutoCAD model, and it runs only nominally faster on my 2.53GHz P4 than it does on a 933MHz Pentium III computer."

I know that...but how do you expect Intel to get an upgrade $$$? hehe.


Mac

Sorry about the wild guess on your CAD experience...I just figured an experienced CAD user would know that in most cases, the user can't input commands fast enough to keep AutoCAD backed up. And although the Athlon may have dominated the benchmarks 4 years ago, today it's a different story. Check out the most recent Cadalyst workstation review, where the Pentium 4 wins all of the benchmarks. I'm not out to put the Athlon down here, but don't come along saying the Athlon "smokes" the P4 when in reality it doesn't. Even if it wasn't intentional, please do a little research before posting things like that. Just because some Intel fanboy ran his mouth doesn't mean you have to do the same.

At any rate, I don't want to get into a personal war, here. I think that in order to help josedawg with his questions, he needs informed answers.

Oh, and just because my 2.53GHz P4 may not be any better at AutoCAD than a PIII doesn't mean that it I don't use it. 3ds Max is the next step in my workflow 50% of the time...

 

[Macro2]

JBond,
Heck, I agree but I just can't resist when people think a P4 automatically runs a graphic type program better than anything else. This IS a tribute to Intels marketing prowess however. As far as the AUTOCAD benches I've seen, the Athlon does seem to excel over the Intel offerings. Funny thing is we don't see many reviews anymore with AUTOCAD benchmarks.

Mac

 

[FishTankX]

Originally posted by: jbond04

Originally posted by: Macro2
RE:"So before you start to make highly uneducated statements like "the Athlon smokes the P4 in AutoCAD", maybe you should become a CAD user"

I've used AutoCad all the way back to a i386. (Yeah it was DOS) 14 years. When I started paying attention to Athlon Benchmarks, about 4 years ago the Athlon was the clear leader in AutoCad. I think it still is? Does it mean anything...maybe not but whenever Intel wins a bench by 5% it's a smoke job so what the heck. <G>

RE:"I wrote a script file that generates 2D projections from a 3D AutoCAD model, and it runs only nominally faster on my 2.53GHz P4 than it does on a 933MHz Pentium III computer."

I know that...but how do you expect Intel to get an upgrade $$$? hehe.


Mac

Sorry about the wild guess on your CAD experience...I just figured an experienced CAD user would know that in most cases, the user can't input commands fast enough to keep AutoCAD backed up. And although the Athlon may have dominated the benchmarks 4 years ago, today it's a different story. Check out the most recent Cadalyst workstation review, where the Pentium 4 wins all of the benchmarks. I'm not out to put the Athlon down here, but don't come along saying the Athlon "smokes" the P4 when in reality it doesn't. Even if it wasn't intentional, please do a little research before posting things like that. Just because some Intel fanboy ran his mouth doesn't mean you have to do the same.

At any rate, I don't want to get into a personal war, here. I think that in order to help josedawg with his questions, he needs informed answers.

Oh, and just because my 2.53GHz P4 may not be any better at AutoCAD than a PIII doesn't mean that it I don't use it. 3ds Max is the next step in my workflow 50% of the time...

In terms of my comment, I was more thinking about AMD's mid range price/performance, in the sense that for their MP and SP lines, they both have extremley competitive prices (below 3000+) when compared to their P4 counterparts. And extremley competitive performance with the B series of P4's. While they might have trouble with the C's, the cost of a good i865 motherboard with DC memory architecture allows the Athlon to remain competitive (Or, at the high end, atleast hang in there) in terms of price/performance ratio.

The AthlonMP series are incredible bargains in their own right.

So, my apologies if it was interpreted otherwise, but by saying that the Athlon's kick butt, I meant when you look at the whole cost equation.

 

[dexvx]

Originally posted by: Macro2
JBond,
Heck, I agree but I just can't resist when people think a P4 automatically runs a graphic type program better than anything else. This IS a tribute to Intels marketing prowess however. As far as the AUTOCAD benches I've seen, the Athlon does seem to excel over the Intel offerings. Funny thing is we don't see many reviews anymore with AUTOCAD benchmarks.

Mac

Aceshardware just did one from. The P4-C 3.0Ghz places right in the middle of the 3200+ and the 3000+.

 

[mkruer]

I will reserve judgment on which is better now, but I will tell you working with 20+MB Solid models using Boolean operation. My system at home

AMD 1800+ 266Mhz FSB, 512MB PC2100

smokes (about 50 to 100% faster) the

P4 2Ghz 400Mhz FSB, 512MB PC2100

at work.

 

[jbond04]

Originally posted by: mkruer
I will reserve judgment on which is better now, but I will tell you working with 20+MB Solid models using Boolean operation. My system at home

AMD 1800+ 266Mhz FSB, 512MB PC2100

smokes (about 50 to 100% faster) the

P4 2Ghz 400Mhz FSB, 512MB PC2100

at work.

I'm assuming you're using AutoCAD...is the P4 a Willamette or Northwood? And what exactly are you using to measure speed? Do you just think it feels 50%-100% faster or is there some sort of command or task that you're running that shows the performance differential?

 

[HokieESM]

Originally posted by: jbond04


I'm assuming you're using AutoCAD...is the P4 a Willamette or Northwood? And what exactly are you using to measure speed? Do you just think it feels 50%-100% faster or is there some sort of command or task that you're running that shows the performance differential?

Not to mention, the P4 HIGHLY benefits from increased memory bandwidth. I have very little doubt that an AXP 1800+ could run with a P4 2.0 using PC2100. Now, using PC800, things might be slightly different--or even PC2700. Look at how much the C-series P4s improved compared to the B-series (not even mentioning the As).

 

[thorin]

Originally posted by: josedawg
i need to know what is the best processor for using with autocad. p4? xeon? dual xeon? athlon xp? dual athlon mp's? opteron? any feedback is appreciated, especially if you use autocad extensively and have prior experience

That's an awefully broad question. What will you be using AutoCAD for (and don't say Design/Drafting). One way to quickly rule out one of your options though is to find out if AutoDesk (er whoever owns/manufactures) the software has a x86-64 version ... which I doubt ... which would rule out Opteron.

Thorin

 

[steele1743]

Uhh actually your best machine would be the new dual processor PowerMac G5, forget the entire X86 platform, go for a computer made for designers..

 

[mkruer]

Originally posted by: jbond04

Originally posted by: mkruer
I will reserve judgment on which is better now, but I will tell you working with 20+MB Solid models using Boolean operation. My system at home

AMD 1800+ 266Mhz FSB, 512MB PC2100

smokes (about 50 to 100% faster) the

P4 2Ghz 400Mhz FSB, 512MB PC2100

at work.

I'm assuming you're using AutoCAD...is the P4 a Willamette or Northwood? And what exactly are you using to measure speed? Do you just think it feels 50%-100% faster or is there some sort of command or task that you're running that shows the performance differential?

That would be a P4a becuse it has only a 400mhz FSB.
I timed it with my watch/stopwatch (yes its not the most accureate, but it does give a ball park figure)
You can Also use the Autocard renderer to test the speed, and clock that.

But as i said before I am reserving Judgment on the newer generation of CPU's but i do expect that once 64-bit is avaiable it should crush the 32-version

 

[mkruer]

Originally posted by: HokieESM

Originally posted by: jbond04


I'm assuming you're using AutoCAD...is the P4 a Willamette or Northwood? And what exactly are you using to measure speed? Do you just think it feels 50%-100% faster or is there some sort of command or task that you're running that shows the performance differential?

Not to mention, the P4 HIGHLY benefits from increased memory bandwidth. I have very little doubt that an AXP 1800+ could run with a P4 2.0 using PC2100. Now, using PC800, things might be slightly different--or even PC2700. Look at how much the C-series P4s improved compared to the B-series (not even mentioning the As).

Yep, but my system cost substantualy less

 

[HokieESM]

Originally posted by: mkruer

Originally posted by: HokieESM

Originally posted by: jbond04


I'm assuming you're using AutoCAD...is the P4 a Willamette or Northwood? And what exactly are you using to measure speed? Do you just think it feels 50%-100% faster or is there some sort of command or task that you're running that shows the performance differential?

Not to mention, the P4 HIGHLY benefits from increased memory bandwidth. I have very little doubt that an AXP 1800+ could run with a P4 2.0 using PC2100. Now, using PC800, things might be slightly different--or even PC2700. Look at how much the C-series P4s improved compared to the B-series (not even mentioning the As).

Yep, but my system cost substantualy less

Of course, on the bottom end, AMD crushes Intel in price/performance. There's no doubt of that (from anyone).

With deep pockets now, I think Intel is the way to go.... provided you want to pay for an i875 solution.

As far as the 64-bit solution.... it really depends on how quickly AutoDesk gets out a 64-bit version. And it depends a LOT on how the code is compiled.... I use 64-bit workstations/computers for my models (computational mechanics) quite a bit (in addition to my P4 and AMD XPs)... and for certain codes, 64-bit makes a tremendous difference (double-precision FP, particularly), but for others it makes very little. Fortunately, the Opteron/Athlon64 should run 32-bit code decently (although only slightly better than the same clock-speed AMD XP).

The BIGGER issue (depending on what you do) might be addressable memory. If you're doing 100MB models, this CPU discussion might be very relevant. If you're doing 2 or 3 GB models, a 64-bit solution is probably best--just because you can actually set up all that memory. 🙂

 

[dexvx]

Originally posted by: steele1743
Uhh actually your best machine would be the new dual processor PowerMac G5, forget the entire X86 platform, go for a computer made for designers..

I wasnt even aware AutoDesk made AutoCAD for Macs.

 

[jacktesterson]

University of New Brunswick (one of top engineering schools in Canada, where I go) uses P4 2.8C processors in there new PC's for Autocad in labs. I find that the XP 2800+ in my room with 1 GB of PC3200 (compared to 2 GB in school machines) runs Autocad faster

just from experience

Anytime I've used Autocad....an Athlon based computer just seems to be faster to me

I get a faster feeling from gaming with Intel..

for me AMD is the Autocad processor to own...either Operton or Barton

 

[dexvx]

^

School computers also usually have a load of crap that runs in the background for security purposes. Install and run the same load of software as the school does to their computers, and I highly doubt it will feel as comfortable.

 

[Cerb]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: sh4nsen
Uhh, when did AMD lose the FPU crown? Pretty sure opteron is gonna own a P4 or xeon in that arena......though im sure someone will link some benchies to prove me wrong.

Yup, Athlon was top dog for CAD not too long ago, I suspect Opteron is now.

While it's difficult to find AutoCAD used in reviews, the last I saw gave the 3000+ around a 15% advantage over the P4 3.06.
Nice benches linked. It appears the Athlon has lost in all but what is still its best quality: $.
A 3000+ system w/ 1GB PC2700 will be significantly less money than a P4 3.0C machine, and you'll not notice the difference in actual use betwen it and the 3200+ or P4 3.2C.
The way LDD 2004 seems to hog resources, a 2800+ or 3000+, 1GB PC2700 (2x512MB), and maybe a Raptor for a hard drive would be good. Loading files and hatching ti loves to eat CPU and memory (and HD for loading and saving), but just drawing and such...eh.

 

[Macro2]

RE:"Anytime I've used Autocad....an Athlon based computer just seems to be faster to me
I get a faster feeling from gaming with Intel..
for me AMD is the Autocad processor to own...either Operton or Barton"

Exactly why the current benchmark suites a lot of these sites use should not be trusted. Many are just P4 optomized.

In the real world I'd like a dollar for every time someone has told me they upgraded to a Pentium 4 2.x machine from a "slower" AMD chip and discovered their was no boost at all. Sometimes it even felt slower. And this is often with a new and supposedly faster video card running the same games they were before.

As far as ACAD...like Mr. Bond said...and Athlon please, shaken not stirred.

 

[jbond04]

Originally posted by: mkruer

That would be a P4a becuse it has only a 400mhz FSB.
I timed it with my watch/stopwatch (yes its not the most accureate, but it does give a ball park figure)
You can Also use the Autocard renderer to test the speed, and clock that.

As others have pointed out, the platforms you've used to base your judgements on aren't exactly the most contemporary, and don't necessarily reflect today's P4 vs. Athlon matchup. Plus, the AutoCAD renderer is very slow compared to something that 3ds Max might offer...so if someone is doing rendering of parts in AutoCAD frequently, it's most likely they're exporting to a program other than AutoCAD.

Originally posted by: steele1743

Uhh actually your best machine would be the new dual processor PowerMac G5, forget the entire X86 platform, go for a computer made for designers.

First of all, welcome to Anandtech. Second, I'm really hoping this is a joke...

In the end, I'm still going to maintain that unless josedawg (wherever he or she disappeared to) is one hell of a hot-shot drafter, that any modern Intel or AMD system will not be the bottleneck in AutoCAD. Rather, with most users, the bottleneck lies somewhere between the chair and keyboard. As I've said earlier, I can rarely ever stress my computer often enough and continuously enough to really say that it's affecting my productivity... The forums are more of a bottleneck to me than my computer. 😛

 

[josedawg]

the machine is not for me, its for a friend. he's an architect. he's upgrading from a p2 450mhz, the comp will need to last 3-4 years.

what it needs to do:
> need to run acad 04 and 3d max.
> x-ref even several dozens of steelcase's 3d furniture and db tags
> on one file
> build massive 3d models and walk-throughs
> regenerating a massive drawing is what bottles most acad systems
> needs to last 4 years of software upgrades
> my first cad machine a was 486DX2-66
> then i went to a P2-450

 

[Macro2]

I suggest you build an Athlon system and on the money saved upgrade more often.

 

[jbond04]

Originally posted by: josedawg
the machine is not for me, its for a friend. he's an architect. he's upgrading from a p2 450mhz, the comp will need to last 3-4 years.

what it needs to do:
> need to run acad 04 and 3d max.
> x-ref even several dozens of steelcase's 3d furniture and db tags
> on one file
> build massive 3d models and walk-throughs
> regenerating a massive drawing is what bottles most acad systems
> needs to last 4 years of software upgrades
> my first cad machine a was 486DX2-66
> then i went to a P2-450

Sounds like your friend should go with a P4, then. The Pentium 4 platform has the memory bandwidth to excel at opening and dealing with "massive 3D models", and it also in an excellent 3ds Max performer to boot. Since he's dealing with "massive drawings" I would also put a very fast hard drive subsystem in there. RAID 0 would help with a lot with reading and writing to large CAD files. It sounds like he's already upgraded to AutoCAD 2004, which reduces drawing file sizes by about 50%. If he's serious about wanting the system to last 3-4 years, then it should be a top of the line system. Maybe something like this:

3.2GHz Intel Pentium 4 Processor
Abit IC7-G or Asus P4C800-E i875 chipset motherboard
2GB PC3200 DDR SDRAM
Some sort of RAID 0 array

A base like that will provide an excellent foundation for a computer that will last a few years. My 2.53GHz P4 should hold me over for quite a while in AutoCAD, but I've already found myself wanting more power in 3ds Max. If your friend uses 3ds Max quite often for highly advanced rendering (using plugins like finalRender, VRay, or Brazil), then he might want to go with a dual AMD Athlon XP or dual Intel Xeon setup. Both of these solutions will be more expensive, but if he finds himself held back by the speed of his computer, then it might be worth it.

 

[josedawg]

3.2GHz Intel Pentium 4 Processor
Abit IC7-G or Asus P4C800-E i875 chipset motherboard
2GB PC3200 DDR SDRAM
Some sort of RAID 0 array

i had almost the same setup for p4, except 2-3gb PC3200, and the MSI 875P Neo board
or for opteron i'm thinking the asus sk8n with opteron 140
or for athlon xp 3000+ 400mhz fsb, a7n8x deluxe

it will have minimum of 2gb PC3200, it will definitely have WD Raptor drives in RAID 0, and one of the top of the line vid cards (radeon 9800 or gf fx 5800), unless there is a good workstation video card (fire gl or quadro4 that is adequate at playing the next generation of games: hl/doom3.

 

[digitalsm]

To the People that say Athlon.

No, maybe in the low to mid 2Ghz(2000+) range. But in the 3Ghz+ or 3000+ range, the P4/Xeon wins out, most of the time, in CAD, and in 3DStudioMax(Maya, any DCC app). The Opteron 246(2.0Ghz) just barely nudges past the Xeon 3.06, for a cost of $200+ more per CPU.

Id say Dual Xeon 3.06s or Dual Opteron 246s. If thats to expensive, Id say a 3.2Ghz P4C or an Opteron 146.

 

[Rectalfier]

If you go Dual, get the opteron, as it scales much better because of the Hypertransport bus interface.