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P4 Overclocking, AGP / PCI dividers still being used?

A

AbRASiON

Senior member
I haven't kept up to date with the latest in news on good boards to overclock with etc.
I'm wondering if anyone has any good information on if the P4 can be run at say 140 -> 166mhz fsb (PC2700 ram?) without causing AGP / PCI problems (that stuff really annoys me, despite the speed gain it just makes the overclock feel sloppy and unstable)

Is there any good boards out there now which can do this or should I be specifically only running a 100mhz (400mhz) P4 @ 133mhz (533mhz) much like the celeron 66 -> 100 fsb trick of way back yonder....

Also anyone know if nvidia will release the nforce audio on a seperate card.?
 
asus p4b266 and abit Th7 ii have the option to lock your pci @ 33 & agp @ 66

i dont think the P4t - E does but im not sure


 
That's cool! - I wasn't sure 🙂


So you're saying 174mhz fsb (some random speed) can still be a perfect 66 / 33 - that's bloody wonderful!

- do they have such chipsets for AMD cpu's yet?!
 
no amd chipset that i know of does that

it is nice if ur memory can run that high it is almost just like having an unlocked chip
 
Well I just read a review for "PC3000" ram from crucial I think it was - it did 206mhz (412DDR) - CAS 2.5 or some such but yeah 😉

I mean that's darn nice, not that I'd want to go that high, but I'd like to say run a P4 1.6A @ 16x150 or so for some nice nice speeds - anyone know of a board which could do that?
(and yes I know it's not guarunteed, but if the board stops AGP / PCI getting out of spec then the only 2 things to worry about are CPU and ram - which isn't half as much work to diagnose / solve for overclocking! 😉

 


<< Wow not the anandtech I remember, normally I'd have a reply in 15 minutes! >>



With all the bandwith caps it takes 15min just for the page to load. :Q
 
abrasion,

What type of memory are you plan on running???

I assume at the fsb speeds you are talking about you have ruled out rdram altogether...

If you want to reach those speeds without sacrificing memory bandwidth which is likely to revert back to a 1:1 ratio in most i845d platforms at 132fsb then the sis645 chipset is your best bet...it is made for pc2700ddr...

You can run let say a 1.6 @ 150fsb for 2.4ghz and use a 4:5 memory ratio and get memory speeds of 375mhz ddr...at 160 with a 4:5 you would be running 400mhz ddr or pc3200....

pci will liekly run a 1/4 divider above 133fsb in most all ddr p4 boards so 150 would be at a very safe 37.5mhz anyways...160 hits the 40mhz barrier and many will be fine with that as well...overall opinion you likely wont hit much above 160fsb with a 1.6...much above 138fsb with a 1.8...much above 124fsb for a 2.0ghz...174 would be a dream!!!

Even if you can't rech 133fsb cause you either got a 1.8 or higher it offers 3:5 ratio and you can achieve 400mhz ddr at even 120fsb....

Get the asus p4s333 mobo and flash it with the upcoming p4s533 bios and you can run 400mhz ddr at default 100fsb of a p4a northwood...thanks to a 1:2 ratio being offered in that bios...

EDIT: to sum it up with a 1.6 chip it is IMO unlikely that you could hit to high of a fsb to take the pci too far out of spec to make it worth while to get a mobo that locks the pci/agp speeds. At 150fsb not to worry. reviews of the few boards that did do it anandtech showed were really subpar in oc performance anyways (ie abit). No sis board that I know of offers it, however as mentioned above you most definitely can't beat the memory bandwidth you can achieve with sis chipset with any of the intel chipset...
 
"pci will liekly run a 1/4 divider above 133fsb in most all ddr p4 boards so 150 would be at a very safe 37.5mhz anyways...160 hits the 40mhz barrier and many will be fine with that as well...overall opinion you likely wont hit much above 160fsb with a 1.6...much above 138fsb with a 1.8...much above 124fsb for a 2.0ghz...174 would be a dream!!!"


I don't think you understand me.



I mean the following


100mhz FSB = 33pci
105mhz FSB = 33pci
110mhz FSB = 33pci
120mhz FSB = 33pci
150mhz FSB = 33pci
190mhz FSB = 33pci
260mhz FSB = 33pci
999mhz FSB = 33pci
111mhz FSB = 33pci
666mhz FSB = 33pci

etc etc

I want to know which board (if any) completely and utterly keeps the PCI and AGP 100% in spec due to it being "syncrhonous" or "asynchronous" or whatever - there was talk about it years ago.

 
I think you missed my point...there are a few...go to anandtech's review of ddr p4 platforms and see for yourself...

generally the boards that offered this were average to piss poor ocers and you could be jeopardizing your ability to even get to 2.4ghz with the 1.6....I would say "good luck" instead

most of the top ocers have been on either asus p4s333 sis chipsets or asus p4b266 i845d platforms, period....a lot of the other boards do not offer the vcore adjustments, memory ratios, or the ram tweaking options to make it worthwhile...

The question may be what board offers a 1/5 divider at 166fsb so as to get it back at pci/agp sepc of 33/66....
 
Ok well lets put it this way, I wouldn't use anything but an intel chipset, I've had enough problems with non intel or AMD chipsets (hello via *waves,..* )


So I guess I've kind of re-structured my question now 🙂

ok - what FSB / clock pci / agp multiplier options do the intel chipsets (DDR ONLY) offer?

I'm assuming the best I845board for overclocking and stability.

Raid not needed.
Onboard sound = not bothered.
Lan = not bothered.
DDR 2100 / 2700 required.


Option to O/C to 100 or 133 mhz totally in spec (PCI / AGP) (ie new support for the 533mhz cpu's) required also.


 
as best as I know currently...

NO i845d platform that officially supports 533fsb chips...

No i845d platform that officially runs pc2700...most don't give mem ratios even capable of getting to it...ie pc 2700 being 333mhz ddr...sis645 is the only official pc2700 chipset I am aware of...it gives the 3:5 ratio at 100fsb so you can get 166x2=333mhz ddr.


i believe abit has an i845d platform (i can't think of name) that can do like you wish, but I know it wasn't a top notch ocer capable of running stabiling at same speeds as asus, msi, gigabyte, soyo,etc...pretty much everybody!!!


I believe intel will hold off launching of those chipsets until 533fsb p4b chips are released....and then maybe some boards may offer some bios upgrades to support them as well...but that can be a crap shoot...

I am hoping in this or next quarter there wil be some announcements on an intel chipset with dual channel ddr capabilities...that would up the ante against rdram platfroms in terms of memory bandwidth capabilities...


edit: sorry forgot this part:

most i845d boards offer 1/3 pci divider at 100 through 132fsb then switch to a 1/4 divider at 133fsb and get everything back to spec...no word on whether any offer a 1/5 divider at 166fsb.....

 


<< I think you missed my point...there are a few...go to anandtech's review of ddr p4 platforms and see for yourself...

generally the boards that offered this were average to piss poor ocers and you could be jeopardizing your ability to even get to 2.4ghz with the 1.6....I would say "good luck" instead

most of the top ocers have been on either asus p4s333 sis chipsets or asus p4b266 i845d platforms, period....a lot of the other boards do not offer the vcore adjustments, memory ratios, or the ram tweaking options to make it worthwhile...

The question may be what board offers a 1/5 divider at 166fsb so as to get it back at pci/agp sepc of 33/66.... >>



i thought the asus p4b266 offered locked pci/ agp speeds

my abit th7 - ii raid does

i can get my 1.8A @2.4 no problems
 
your board is an i850 platform for rdram and I think he has been asking about ddr platforms....


You got to 2.4ghz with rdram did you have to downclock the multiplier of the rdram to 3 so your rdram is running still at pc800 or pc1066????

edit: I am not 100 percent sure if i845 boards have updated any bios to add some mem ratios above 133fsb...does anybody know for sure???

I know that with a sis chipset at 150fsb you could use the 4;5 ratio and run 375mhz ddr and likely score in th 2800's in sandra memory which is above pc800 rdram....
 


<< i thought the asus p4b266 offered locked pci/ agp speeds >>


I think there are some option like "turbo1" and "turbo2" mode which are undocumented. Turbo-1 mode supposed to lock the pci at 36Mhz and turbo 2 at a higher frequency. I am not sure whether anyone has tested this with an oscilloscope.
 
i did have to lower the ram multiplier cuz my board did not have the ICS 600 mhz chips

i could either run @ 115 x 4 or get it up to 2.4 ghz @ 133*3 caps out around 474 mhz fsb
 
I think you made the better choice...I have done some testing and many of my favorite programs are more hungry for the cpu power then bandwidth....2.07 vs 2.4ghz no question...

my 1.8@2.4 with 333mhz (2500's in sandra) ddr was quite a bit faster at divx encoding then my 1.8@2.2 with 406mhz ddr (2800's in sandra)...I ran it at 2.2ghz with just 3:4 multiplier for 325mhz ddr and not much of a difference....
 
Well I'm glad I asked here!

As I suspected all along there's no SIMPLE "celeron 300A" / BH6 kind of setup here - it's still a little cloudy on exactly what to opt for.


You all know my requirements (which I'll re-state later) I guess what I need to do now is wait


Basically I want this.

High speed ram bandwidth - at least 266mhz DDR if not dual channel DDR (ok so that's not possible within the next month at least at a guess)

So I guess 333mhz DDR (166mhz) ram would be nice for the moment.
2200mhz speed at least (from a CPU under 200$ US 😉 (so a 1.6, 1.8 or MAYBE a 2.0 P4)
I'd strongly prefer an intel chipset.


So should I be waiting for an official intel board which which offers 533 / 133 CPU FSB and 333mhz memory FSB (with obvious 33/66 pci / agp?)

Is there not one of these out, if not when will it come.

It sounds like the perfect board to drop a 1.8 or 2.0 P4 into and instantly get 2300 -> 2666 mhz and stay COMFORTABLY NICELY in spec, causing no "odd random crashes" - stupid pops, clicks - hdd errors or burning problems.

I guess I'll just sit tight and wait for anand to review the "next big overclockers dream"

 
for an intel chipset with 533fsb official support and at least 333mhz support...I would wait...should be clearer when the the new p4's start hitting street...

I think I heard the dual channel ddr chipset are at leat 3-6 months off and I believe code named "prescott"...


non intel chipset you could have 533fsb support and 333mhz now....in about 2-4 weeks sis will be offering there total dedicated 533fsb board with ratios to support 400mhz+ ddr...hopefully that mushkin 400mhz ddr will have some room to oc a bit.....
 
Unless of course intel does this..


Dual channel 266ddr (533mhz) and 533mhz cpu's effectively giving full cpu speed -> ram.
That'd be quite nice!

Either way I want to "cheat overclock" - run a "2.0ghz cpu" @ 2.6 by using OFFICIAL supported speeds, thereby allowing me to KNOW that the only thing holding me back is the CPU - as long as the ram is in spec etc.

I hate LOATHE DETEST! running PCI and AGP more than 5->10% out of spec - I did this with my P166mmx and P233 etc - as well as my Celeron 300A at some points, it's nothing but trouble in my opinion (some of you may like it, but it's opinion so lets leave it as it could bring up a long debate,... either way I have 10x more faith in my overclock if i'm only straining one component)

Specially a .13 micron component theoretically rated to 2.4ghz but it's running @ only 1.6 😉

Suggestions / theory - anyone have a "wish list" of upcoming hardware?

I won't be doing this u/g for a minimum of 4 weeks - anything up to 4 months! (considering .13 amd also ,.. but I'd like to know my intel options for the moment)
 
you might want to wait for true 533 FSB boards to come out

i have a feeling that you might be able to put in a current northwood 1.6 - 1.8 and it will retain its multiplier so instead of 16 - 18 x 100 you get 16 - 18 x 133 ( if the chip will do it) and nothing will be out of spec besides the chip

 
so basically you want ot run things at default speed or 133fsb...133fsb in every board I can think of will put you back to 33/66 pci/agp speeds

1.6 at 100fsb or 2.16 at 133fsb (pretty much a gimme) chip is like $130 bucks

1.8 at 100fsb or 2.4 at 133fsb (this is definitely not a gimme, but reasonable at 1.6 plus vcore) chip is like $180

2.0 at 100fsb or 2.66 at 133fsb ( unlikely altogether, but can't rule it out with all the right stuff) chip is near $300 I think
 
Exactly my thoughts - an official 533 board with the same multiplier just 100 whoops I chose 133.


So if intel release "NEW P4 2667A MHZ /133 CPU FOR FASTAR INTARNEB!" which is 20x133.

I kind of want to accidentally buy the 2.0ghz and go whoops! 133 instead of 100.

(celeron 300A trick)

definately the best, cleanest most stable overclock.


I think I'm going to keep waiting then 🙁
 
I don't understand what you are waiting for-

As already stated, the 1.6 and 1.8 run at 133 fsb with no problem. What you want to do.
As already stated, the P4B266 runs those chips at 133 fsb while keeping the AGP and PCI in spec. What you want to do.

Prices are cheap right now. Why wait?



 
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