P4 over clocked to 3GHz, time to switch back to Intel

[PG]

ToBeMe, please stop playing games.

I compared apples to apples. I used the cheapest prices straight from Pricewatch.
You are playing games by saying that name brand memory should be compared.

You also are hand-picking odd motherboards to compare. Why?
Why did you pick the Asus A7V? It uses the old and obsolete KT133 chipset which doesn't even support the XP CPUs.
Why didn't you pick the Asus A7V266-E which uses the KT266A chipset, has RAID, and can be found on Pricewatch for $147?

And the KR7-RAID for $172? Where do you get your numbers? I see it for $137 on Pricewatch.

I can see I won't win an argument with you because you won't give up or compare apples to apples, so I'm done in this thread. This is a waste of my time.

 

[ToBeMe]

<< ToBeMe, please stop playing games.

I compared apples to apples. I used the cheapest prices straight from Pricewatch.
You are playing games by saying that name brand memory should be compared.

You also are hand-picking odd motherboards to compare. Why?
Why did you pick the Asus A7V? It uses the old and obsolete KT133 chipset which doesn't even support the XP CPUs.
Why didn't you pick the Asus A7V266-E which uses the KT266A chipset, has RAID, and can be found on Pricewatch for $147?

And the KR7-RAID for $172? Where do you get your numbers? I see it for $137 on Pricewatch.

I can see I won't win an argument with you because you won't give up or compare apples to apples, so I'm done in this thread. This is a waste of my time. >>


You're the one wasting time and playing games idiot...........how many people buy "Generic" ram????? Few to none! Crucial IS the main supplier of those on A/T and sells the most worldwide!

Also, you're the dumby whom is choosing the Pricewatch cheapest prices................did you bother to check that by your shopping methods shipping would make it even more???? Most people use NewEgg, Multi-Wave, or GoogleGear and my prices come from those suppliers! I used the A7V as a SERIES NOT the KT133 A7V.......that WAS the KT266A board dweeb!

You're shopping in ways only newbies or idiots would shop! Who goes to Pricewatch and takes the very first offering just because it's the cheapest?????? You apparently..............not many others! Do a check and see how many people shop the way you do, "take the cheapest PW price and buy regardless of store rep. or shipping costs" or, shop mainly at NewEgg, Multi-Wave, and a few other with great prices and great reps. also! Now whom is playing games?????? YOU

 

[PG]

Sigh, I said I wouldn't reply again, but yet somehow I can't resist pointing out the flaws in your logic.

I see that you can't win so you resort to name calling, very classy.

Well, let's get down to it. Prices are all from Newegg, with shipping included and shown. I won't waste my time with links. People can search for themselves.


AMD:

Abit VIA KT266A Chipset Motherboard Model KR7A-Raid, $148 + $10 shipping = $158

Asus A7V266-E KT266A Chipset 266/200MHz FSB Motherboard with Raid and Sound - Retail, $155 + $6 shipping = $161

KINGSTON KVR266X64C25/256 256MB 32x64 PC2100 DDR RAM - OEM , $72 + $6 shipping = $78


INTEL:

ABIT TH7II-RAID INTEL 850 ATX MOTHERBOARD - RETAIL, $165 + $10 shipping = $175

ASUS: no i850 boards with raid carried at Newegg, or at least I can't find any

KINGSTON KVR800X16-8/128 RAMBUS 128MB 800MHZ NON-ECC - OEM, $43 + $6 shipping = $49, but we need 2 sticks to equal the 1 stick of 256 MB DDR above, so total cost of memory is $98


Now what's wrong with this comparison? Is it OK this time?

 

[skace]

Holy crap, as I read ToBeMe's posts I noted a hint of Texmaster in him. Kinda scary... all the Lol's and name calling made me want to puke. Anyways, for the record here is prices straight from NewEgg.

AMD:
cpu: AMD ATHLON XP 2000+/266 FSB PROCESSOR CPU = 302
ram:CRUCIAL MICRON 256MB 32x64 PC 2100 DDR RAM = 73
mobo:Asus A7V266-E KT266A Chipset 266/200MHz FSB Motherboard with Raid and Sound = 155

Intel:
cpu: Intel Pentium 4 / 2.2GHz Northwood 512K Socket 478 Processor 400MHz = 560
ram:KINGSTON KVR800X16-16/256 RAMBUS 256MB 800MHZ NON-ECC = 99 or 2x43
mobo:ABIT TH7II-RAID INTEL 850 ATX MOTHERBOARD = 165

Heres the prices I came up with... If you are going to argue semantics, realize that I could have easily thrown in a far cheaper AMD board. That Asus one has "4 Ultra DMA/100 IDE Port (2 for RAID), C-Media-CMI-8738 Audio support 6 Channel Speaker Mode, Jumper Free, Power Loss Recovery, 4 USB ports, Integrated Serial Infrared." And most of the mobos that someone would actually buy if they were to go AMD would have been in the $100 or less category [aside from nForce].

 

[ToBeMe]

<< Sigh, I said I wouldn't reply again, but yet somehow I can't resist pointing out the flaws in your logic.

I see that you can't win so you resort to name calling, very classy.

Well, let's get down to it. Prices are all from Newegg, with shipping included and shown. I won't waste my time with links. People can search for themselves.


AMD:

Abit VIA KT266A Chipset Motherboard Model KR7A-Raid, $148 + $10 shipping = $158

Asus A7V266-E KT266A Chipset 266/200MHz FSB Motherboard with Raid and Sound - Retail, $155 + $6 shipping = $161

KINGSTON KVR266X64C25/256 256MB 32x64 PC2100 DDR RAM - OEM , $72 + $6 shipping = $78


INTEL:

ABIT TH7II-RAID INTEL 850 ATX MOTHERBOARD - RETAIL, $165 + $10 shipping = $175

ASUS: no i850 boards with raid carried at Newegg, or at least I can't find any

KINGSTON KVR800X16-8/128 RAMBUS 128MB 800MHZ NON-ECC - OEM, $43 + $6 shipping = $49, but we need 2 sticks to equal the 1 stick of 256 MB DDR above, so total cost of memory is $98


Now what's wrong with this comparison? Is it OK this time? >>


Yes, how rude of you to resort to child like behaviour merely because you're wrong! You know, I know it and so does everyone else! YOU are the one making a fool of yourtself for trying to exploit something that was brought up as and is a fact! You obviously spend little time building and upgrading systems except perhaps for yourself........and if you follow the guidelines you've used here................sorry to say, many times you've been taken!

You take things anyone says SO out of context and twist them to work with your agenda...............as is clearly evident by your last post! Hmmm.....no i850's at NewEgg????? Well, what about MWave????? Or Googlegear???? You are nothing but an AMD "fanboy" and can not comprehend anything but your choice being the best choice................well.......sorry, for you perhaps it is, but, most people are a little more open minded! If you choose to run all generic Hdwre........be my guest.........the vast majority does not and by that token, Samsung (namebrand RD) IS cheaper then Crucial (#1 used DDR) most people are aware of this, you thought you could just pull one over on everyone reading this thread whom didn't know this though............but, you didn't

You can continue to spew your mindless drivel, but, the facts are facts as someone PM'ed me.................and you sir, look like a fool to anyone whom knows! Did you even really read what I wrote originally before you went on your mindless rants?????????? I quote;



<< Hmmm, just an FYI........RDRAM is about the same or lower than most name brand DDRRAM right now and a lot of the P4 mobos are as cheap or cheaper than Athlon mobos.......... >>


You're doing nothing but making yourself look dumber and dumber by implying that everyone should just purchase the cheapest prices PW offers, and by telling people to buy "Generic" Hdware when anyone knows, you're doing nothing but inviting trouble by doing either! I then stated that you should compare what most people use either brand, or store.....................you couldn't find the prices to support your drivel in one case, so you ignored it, and in the second case you visited NewEgg which didn't have the i850, and instead of looking elsewhere.........you simply delete the option....(IMHO you probably shopped, and saw I was indeed correct so you had to find a way to support your mindless drivel once again so you settled upon a shop which didn't even carry all of which was specified!) You kiddo'............are a sorry case!

 

[Nemesis77]

ToBeMe: Give it a rest already. You have been proven wrong. Real man knows when to acknowledge than.

 

[ToBeMe]

<< Holy crap, as I read ToBeMe's posts I noted a hint of Texmaster in him. Kinda scary... all the Lol's and name calling made me want to puke. Anyways, for the record here is prices straight from NewEgg.

AMD:
cpu: AMD ATHLON XP 2000+/266 FSB PROCESSOR CPU = 302
ram:CRUCIAL MICRON 256MB 32x64 PC 2100 DDR RAM = 73
mobo:Asus A7V266-E KT266A Chipset 266/200MHz FSB Motherboard with Raid and Sound = 155

Intel:
cpu: Intel Pentium 4 / 2.2GHz Northwood 512K Socket 478 Processor 400MHz = 560
ram:KINGSTON KVR800X16-16/256 RAMBUS 256MB 800MHZ NON-ECC = 99 or 2x43
mobo:ABIT TH7II-RAID INTEL 850 ATX MOTHERBOARD = 165

Heres the prices I came up with... If you are going to argue semantics, realize that I could have easily thrown in a far cheaper AMD board. That Asus one has "4 Ultra DMA/100 IDE Port (2 for RAID), C-Media-CMI-8738 Audio support 6 Channel Speaker Mode, Jumper Free, Power Loss Recovery, 4 USB ports, Integrated Serial Infrared." And most of the mobos that someone would actually buy if they were to go AMD would have been in the $100 or less category [aside from nForce]. >>


If you want to sit and argue this all day..............I will show you how you are incorrect! Did you miss the part above where as I own two of each systems..........I could care less, but, do not care for you AMD "fanboys" posting that which is not true!

Let's just start with the ram...............hmmm, #1, most people will opt for a name brand RD which is also a great O/C'er such as SAMSUNG.......also, are you unclear, or is the AMD system you post above ending up with 256mb of ram and the Intel with 512mb's??????? Why can't you buy 2 128mb sticks instead of 2 256 mb sticks?????? You site Crucial "Micron" for the DDR @$73..........as you state, that's from NewEgg's site correct? Well, did I not quote prices from CRUCIAL'S site since this is where the vast majority buy their ram???????

Continue and we'll sort out the other problems........

 

[Freejack2]

Yeah yeah yeah, last quarter the Athlon XP was king of the speed game, this quarter the P4 northwood is the king of the speed game.
Next quarter the Athlon Tbred will be King of the speed game. Then Intel's latest chip, then Amd's latest chip, it goes on and on...
The biggest difference... AMD is cheaper.
Thankyouverymuch, driveonthrough.

 

[ToBeMe]

<< ToBeMe: Give it a rest already. You have been proven wrong. Real man knows when to acknowledge than. >>


OK.....show me then where and how the exact same quantities of Crucial DDR is less expensive than Samsung RD!
Also show me where the price difference between comparable Abit and Asus P4 and Athlon mobos are not very nearly the same price!
Check my original post..............this is EXACTLY what I stated and it IS a fact................like it or not!

 

[PG]

You take things anyone says SO out of context and twist them to work with your agenda...............as is clearly evident by your last post! Hmmm.....no i850's at NewEgg????? Well, what about MWave????? Or Googlegear???? You are nothing but an AMD "fanboy" and can not comprehend anything but your choice being the best choice................well.......sorry, for you perhaps it is, but, most people are a little more open minded! If you choose to run all generic Hdwre........be my guest.........the vast majority does not and by that token, Samsung (namebrand RD) IS cheaper then Crucial (#1 used DDR) most people are aware of this, you thought you could just pull one over on everyone reading this thread whom didn't know this though............but, you didn't

...


You're doing nothing but making yourself look dumber and dumber by implying that everyone should just purchase the cheapest prices PW offers, and by telling people to buy "Generic" Hdware when anyone knows, you're doing nothing but inviting trouble by doing either! I then stated that you should compare what most people use either brand, or store.....................you couldn't find the prices to support your drivel in one case, so you ignored it, and in the second case you visited NewEgg which didn't have the i850, and instead of looking elsewhere.........you simply delete the option....(IMHO you probably shopped, and saw I was indeed correct so you had to find a way to support your mindless drivel once again so you settled upon a shop which didn't even carry all of which was specified!) You kiddo'............are a sorry case!


Wow, I'm not sure where to start with this one, but I'll give it a shot since my comparison's of exact brand names to exact brand names isn't good enough for you.


OK, mwave doesn't have the ASUS TH7-RAID, but Googlegear does: $153.50, but the shipping varies. It's 12.52 for me. Grand total = $166.02

Just to jog your memory, the Asus A7V266-E from Newegg was $161 shipped.



Also, you don't like my memory prices. All right, I can fix that.

Crucial prices for PC2100 DDR: (prices shown are with free FedEx shipping)

512MB $161.99 CT6464Z265 DDR PC2100 ? CL=2.5 ? Unbuffered ? Non-parity ? 7.5ns ? 2.5V ? 64Meg x 64

256MB $75.59 CT3264Z265 DDR PC2100 ? CL=2.5 ? Unbuffered ? Non-parity ? 2.5V ? 32Meg x 64

128MB $41.39 CT1664Z265 DDR PC2100 ? CL=2.5 ? Unbuffered ? Non-parity ? 2.5V ? 16Meg x 64



Samsung RAMBUS:

Sorry, Newegg, Googlegear, and Mwave don't carry any Samsung rambus that I can see.

Here's the numbers from PC-Product.com, but of course, they would be higher for a reputable store, as you mentioned. Maybe PC-Product.com is OK, but I haven't heard of them myself.

Samsung 128MB 800 Mhz Rambus RDRAM
39.99 2 79.98
Total Purchases 79.98
Shipping 13.45
Total for PC-Product.com 93.43

(Above total is 256 MB for those challeneged by math.)


Samsung PC800 256MB non-ECC Rambus RAM
77.99 2 155.98
Total Purchases 155.98
Shipping 15.90
Total for PC-Product.com 171.88

(Above total is 512 MB for those challeneged by math.)



OK.....show me then where and how the exact same quantities of Crucial DDR is less expensive than Samsung RD!


OK, done! What do you have to say now?

 

[Texmaster]

<< Holy crap, as I read ToBeMe's posts I noted a hint of Texmaster in him. Kinda scary... all the Lol's and name calling made me want to puke. >>




LOL Typical Scace, resorting to flames! LOL


ToBeMe and I don't always agree but he is light years ahead of you in the field of debating. Better quit while you are behind


Bottom line,

If you are going to argue price (which is so typical of AMD users once they have been proven that they aren't the fastest)

AMD wins.

You want to argue who is faster AT THIS POINT IN TIME? Its Intel hands down.

Crying about it doesn't do any good.

 

[ToBeMe]

<< You take things anyone says SO out of context and twist them to work with your agenda...............as is clearly evident by your last post! Hmmm.....no i850's at NewEgg????? Well, what about MWave????? Or Googlegear???? You are nothing but an AMD "fanboy" and can not comprehend anything but your choice being the best choice................well.......sorry, for you perhaps it is, but, most people are a little more open minded! If you choose to run all generic Hdwre........be my guest.........the vast majority does not and by that token, Samsung (namebrand RD) IS cheaper then Crucial (#1 used DDR) most people are aware of this, you thought you could just pull one over on everyone reading this thread whom didn't know this though............but, you didn't

...


You're doing nothing but making yourself look dumber and dumber by implying that everyone should just purchase the cheapest prices PW offers, and by telling people to buy "Generic" Hdware when anyone knows, you're doing nothing but inviting trouble by doing either! I then stated that you should compare what most people use either brand, or store.....................you couldn't find the prices to support your drivel in one case, so you ignored it, and in the second case you visited NewEgg which didn't have the i850, and instead of looking elsewhere.........you simply delete the option....(IMHO you probably shopped, and saw I was indeed correct so you had to find a way to support your mindless drivel once again so you settled upon a shop which didn't even carry all of which was specified!) You kiddo'............are a sorry case!


Wow, I'm not sure where to start with this one, but I'll give it a shot since my comparison's of exact brand names to exact brand names isn't good enough for you.


OK, mwave doesn't have the ASUS TH7-RAID, but Googlegear does: $153.50, but the shipping varies. It's 12.52 for me. Grand total = $166.02

Just to jog your memory, the Asus A7V266-E from Newegg was $161 shipped.



Also, you don't like my memory prices. All right, I can fix that.

Crucial prices for PC2100 DDR: (prices shown are with free FedEx shipping)

512MB $161.99 CT6464Z265 DDR PC2100 ? CL=2.5 ? Unbuffered ? Non-parity ? 7.5ns ? 2.5V ? 64Meg x 64

256MB $75.59 CT3264Z265 DDR PC2100 ? CL=2.5 ? Unbuffered ? Non-parity ? 2.5V ? 32Meg x 64

128MB $41.39 CT1664Z265 DDR PC2100 ? CL=2.5 ? Unbuffered ? Non-parity ? 2.5V ? 16Meg x 64



Samsung RAMBUS:

Sorry, Newegg, Googlegear, and Mwave don't carry any Samsung rambus that I can see.

Here's the numbers from PC-Product.com, but of course, they would be higher for a reputable store, as you mentioned. Maybe PC-Product.com is OK, but I haven't heard of them myself.

Samsung 128MB 800 Mhz Rambus RDRAM
39.99 2 79.98
Total Purchases 79.98
Shipping 13.45
Total for PC-Product.com 93.43

(Above total is 256 MB for those challeneged by math.)


Samsung PC800 256MB non-ECC Rambus RAM
77.99 2 155.98
Total Purchases 155.98
Shipping 15.90
Total for PC-Product.com 171.88

(Above total is 512 MB for those challeneged by math.)



OK.....show me then where and how the exact same quantities of Crucial DDR is less expensive than Samsung RD!
Sorry, but you're encourageable..................you claim things are not there, then post prices for what you want................I give up, if you want to be a "Fan Boy" that bad so be it...................must be nice having tunnel vision all your life...........makes it so that you're ALWAYS right huh!


OK, done! What do you have to say now? >>


LOL! Whatever..............if you want to live your life as an AMD "Fanboy" I'm sure your tunnel vision will assure you are always correct...........at least in your eyes.........

 

[Aelus]

Instead of bickering(as much as most people love it), people should be happy they now have a choice amongst cpu's, where diferent cpus are great for different applications, at a reasonable price.

if you run SSE2 optimized apps all the time, or need extreme bandwith for certains apps, buy a P4.

if you run apps who need a decent FPU, buy an athlon. For general purpose, an athlon will be much more consistent in performance.

conclusion: buy what you need.

I wouldn't want a P4, i regurarly run FPU intensive apps, and AFAIK, the app i use for DivX compression doesn't support SSE2 (nandub).

oh, and to fit in this thread, i'll just add this:

you can best compare a P4 with a K6-2, it works on everything, although slower than comparable CPU's, but when the apps are optimized, they shine in comparison with those other CPU's.

Aelus

 

[CraigRT]

<< Hmmm, just an FYI........RDRAM is about the same or lower than most name brand DDRRAM right now and a lot of the P4 mobos are as cheap or cheaper than Athlon mobos.......... >>



it's the fact that they want you to only use RAMBUS.
i bet if you called Intel with a problem and told them you had a P4X266 board they wouldn't support anything, but if you said Just kidding! and said you had i820 with RAMBUS they'd be more than happy enough to help.. booooo

 

[ToBeMe]

<< Instead of bickering(as much as most people love it), people should be happy they now have a choice amongst cpu's, where diferent cpus are great for different applications, at a reasonable price.

if you run SSE2 optimized apps all the time, or need extreme bandwith for certains apps, buy a P4.

if you run apps who need a decent FPU, buy an athlon. For general purpose, an athlon will be much more consistent in performance.

conclusion: buy what you need.

I wouldn't want a P4, i regurarly run FPU intensive apps, and AFAIK, the app i use for DivX compression doesn't support SSE2 (nandub).

oh, and to fit in this thread, i'll just add this:

you can best compare a P4 with a K6-2, it works on everything, although slower than comparable CPU's, but when the apps are optimized, they shine in comparison with those other CPU's.

Aelus >>


Hell man................that's where this started! Thing is, these AMD Fanboys can't have anything or hear anything but AMD! Thus, my original opening snetince in this thread..................I just can't believe that a few people can not even bear the fact that any part of an Intel system or it's parts, may be close to their precious AMD when it comes to price! Heil AMD!!!:Q

 

[Aelus]

as far as i can see, both platforms are pretty similar in price, except for the CPU, i still don't understand why anyone would pay for a p4, except if they need the SSE2 support/bandwith, most people probably buy them to brag with the Mhz rating, easier to do that with a p4 than with an athlon.

oh well, all the more power to them.

Aelus

 

[Pabster]

<sigh>

Yet another classic Intel vs AMD flame shoot.

When will people learn?

Neither Northwood nor AthlonXP is superior enough to be considered "the fastest". IF that were the case (and it most certainly is not), one or the other would dominate across the board. As it stands, both have "weak areas" where the other is able to outperform (in some cases significantly) the other. This is entirely notwithstanding any price differential.

Anotherwards, it is hilarious to see such arguments. Neither processor is "the best". Live with it.

 

[AGodspeed]

AMD was downgraded to a "sell" a few weeks ago much to my dismay as I own some shares. This came as AMD actually gained a little marketshare which makes it even more disturbing! -ToBeMe

So what, you forgot to mention the other firms that upgraded AMD to strong buys, etc. I too own AMD (and Intel) stock, and I think it's pretty obvious that most analysts don't know what they're talking about more often than not.

How long will the "Major" investors stand for this????? Not long the way it sounds.........

AMD is a company, they're not stupid, they want to make a profit. Who knows what they're thinking, but I can tell you AMD has been through WAY worse financial troubles before, this is nothing...

AMD shipped more product in Q3 & Q4, but made drasticly less money than Intel in those quarters just in the proccessor market and ended up with an annual report in the red.

AMD made a pro forma profit in 2001 (obviously that doesn't include other restructuring charges, but still, get the facts straight). Go to amd.com to get all the numbers. Speaking of numbers, Intel made 8.5 billion dollars less in 2001 than in 2000 (3.6 Billion in 2001 compared to 12.1 Billion in 2000 linko). And of course Intel made a profit, their market share is almost monopolistic in nature! That's like saying you'd be surprised to see Microsoft make a profit last year. Of course MS will make a profit, they completely dominate most of the markets they're in (market share wise that is).

Btw, look at Sun Microsystems?s pro forma 2001, or Motorola's pro forma 2001, or...you'll see a similar trend in profits/losses with AMD.

Many anyalists now see AMD merging or being bought in the next 12 months and to be honest, I'd rather not see this as it most often ends up hurting the product and both companies........

Maybe I'm not up to date on this issue ToBeMe, but how many analysts see AMD being bought out or merged in the next 12 months. The only "buy outs" or "mergers" I've heard about have been rumors floating around The Inquirer.

You want to argue who is faster AT THIS POINT IN TIME? Its Intel hands down. - Texmaster

Ah yes, Tex chimes in with yet another statement based on his wonderland beliefs.

Anotherwards, it is hilarious to see such arguments. Neither processor is "the best". Live with it. - Pabster

Exactly.

 

[ToBeMe]

<< Maybe I'm not up to date on this issue ToBeMe, but how many analysts see AMD being bought out or merged in the next 12 months. The only "buy outs" or "mergers" I've heard about have been rumors floating around The Inquirer. >>


WSJ Oct. '01 speaking of possible buyouts in the technology businesses in the next year or so:

<< "With troubles abound in the tech. sector, AMD looks to be a prime target within the next 12 - 18 months" >>

 

[Texmaster]

<< <sigh>

Yet another classic Intel vs AMD flame shoot.

When will people learn?

Neither Northwood nor AthlonXP is superior enough to be considered "the fastest". If that were the case (and it most certainly is not), one or the other would dominate across the board. As it stands, both have "weak areas" where the other is able to outperform (in some cases significantly) the other. This is entirely notwithstanding any price differential.

Anotherwards, it is hilarious to see such arguments. Neither processor is "the best". Live with it. >>



LOL My how the roles have reversed. Pabster and AGodspeed are notorious for their Intel bashing and their declaration of AMD being the fastest in the past even if it was by the most tiny of margins.

Now they speak the words of the diplomat because they know Intel is faster than AMD. It sure wasn't their words before the Northwood came out

The 2.2 is the faster than the current AMD champ, the 1.67ghz XP. Even Agodspeed admitted to this on another thread. He tried to triviliaze it by pointing out how small the difference was. I found it interesting since he never did when AMD won by very small margins

And really, no one cares, especially you two in the past when AMD was ahead, by how much faster Intel is at current speeds. The fact is its faster PERIOD.

And its especially faster when both are overclocked, of that there is NO doubt.


But go ahead and argue specific benchmarks if it makes you feel better. The outcome is still the same as I said before, no matter how much you cry about it.

 

[Mrburns2007]

All the reviews I've read have shown that the 1.67 XP is faster then the P4 in most apps and cost less so I will stick with it. The time and expense of overclocking is kinda worthless considering a couple months later there will be faster cpu's out.

$284 - Athlon XP 2000
$203 - Athlon XP 1900
$143 - Athlon XP 1800
$115 - Athlon XP 1700
$108 - Athlon XP 1600


$553 - Pentium 4 2.2GHz Sock 478
$351 Pentium 4 2.0GHz Sock 478
$409 Pentium 4 2.0GHz
$251 - Pentium 4 1.9GHz Sock 478
$237 - Pentium 4 1.9GHz
$198 Pentium 4 1.8GHz Sock 478
$194 - Pentium 4 1.8GHz
$177 - Pentium 4 1.7GHz Sock 478
$172 Pentium 4 1.7GHz
$157 - Pentium 4 1.6GHz Sock 478
$150 - Pentium 4 1.6GHz
$137 - Pentium 4 1.5GHz Sock 478
$138 - Pentium 4 1.5GHz
$137 - Pentium 4 1.4GHz Sock 478
$130 - Pentium 4 1.4GHz
$106 - Pentium 4 1.3GHz

 

[spanky]

<< doesn't look like AMD can compete when the P4 goes to 3, 4 , 5+ ghz >>



LOOK WHAT YOU'VE STARTED... THE HUMANITY!!!

 

[Pabster]

TexMaster wrote:

"LOL My how the roles have reversed. Pabster and AGodspeed are notorious for their Intel bashing and their declaration of AMD being the fastest in the past even if it was by the most tiny of margins."

Ah, Tex, ever the flame starter. A bit disappointing to see that nothing has changed.

I declared time and time again through the past several months that the Athlon and P4 solutions (discounting specific applications, of course) were competitive with each other. In fact, I often referred to putting both machines behind a curtain and not being able to tell which machine I was using.

"Now they speak the words of the diplomat because they know Intel is faster than AMD. It sure wasn't their words before the Northwood came out"

Read above.

"The 2.2 is the faster than the current AMD champ, the 1.67ghz XP. Even Agodspeed admitted to this on another thread. He tried to triviliaze it by pointing out how small the difference was. I found it interesting since he never did when AMD won by very small margins."

Tex, why don't you fire up Serious Sam (1024x768x32) and tell me what frame rate you're receiving. I can guarantee you my XP rig will best it, even at 2.7(?). Are you getting the picture? For a processor to be "faster" or "the fastest", it must dominate across the board. The Northwood, while certainly an improvement (significantly in some areas) from Willamette, simply does not do that. What's so hard to understand about that?

"And really, no one cares, especially you two in the past when AMD was ahead, by how much faster Intel is at current speeds. The fact is its faster PERIOD."

Read above. I can pick a handful of apps/games where an XP trounces Northwood. What does that prove? Come on, stop the zealotry.

"And its especially faster when both are overclocked, of that there is NO doubt."

You obviously would like to compare to my XP @ 1992 (166x12). Let's go!

After sending my 2.2 Northwood to 2.6, and running a wide variety of stuff, the XP is faster. But what does that prove?

"But go ahead and argue specific benchmarks if it makes you feel better. The outcome is still the same as I said before, no matter how much you cry about it."

You have to quote "specific" benchmarks -- because the two (2000+ XP and 2.2GHz Northwood) are neck and neck in most areas. There's only a handful where either is able to displace the other by any "significant" margin. And that's a fact.

 

[Aelus]

<< The fact is its faster PERIOD. >>



that depends how you define faster.

yeah, the P4 might be faster on some applications, but until the vast majority of the applications are faster on the P4, it's not "faster". The P4 is, just like the K6-2, an unbalanced design, it has huge potential, but the vast majority of the applications on the market, and the vast majority of the apps who will be released, just don't use that potential. That means, that, while the P4 has several apps which it shines in, there are still huge numbers of applications which is just downright sucks in (meaning, a P4 performs the same as an athlon half the Mhz). Until those apps are optimized for the P4 (if that's possible), or until the P4 scales so high, that, even with the horrid FPU, it performs decently, the P4 isn't the faster processor.

That being said, buy a P4 for all i care, brag with the Mhz for all i care, but don't start claiming it's the fastest CPU, without clearly saying that fastest means fastest in certain applications which are disclamed in small print down below.

The P4 is a very intelligent design, it's a basically a modernised K6-2 , it has enough FPU to provide legacy apps with enough speed, while giving alot of speed to apps who really need it. That means ofcourse, that those apps have to be optimized for it, and i don't see that happen before 2003.

Aelus

 

[NonTechGuy]

*kisses Athlon XP 1700+ chip*

Intel is just not very good, they ride on their name and not their performance. a person who brags about his new P4 is the same kind of person who brags about his new Sony stereo even though Alpine is known to be far superior.