P4 3.2 Prescott HT vs. 3.4 Northwood

[inhuman]

I'm currently using a P4 2.4 Northwood (512 kb 800 FSB HT), and I recently vicitimised myself by getting a brand new (sealed in boxed) 3.2 equivalent Prescott (1 mb, 800 FSB, HT) to replace that. Man, does it run hot! The high temperatures pulls down the performance of the whole system. If only I knew about the differences between Prescott and Northwood before..

So now, I'm thinking about putting this new beast up for sale and getting the (used) 3.4 Northwood instead. I'm not interested in overclocking, and even if I were, Prescott wouldn't be my choice due to high temperatures (ironically, 3.0+ Prescotts are best suited to overclocking from what I hear). Here's my dilemma: The reviews at the time when these beasts came out, stated that there was no sudden visible advantage to high-end Prescotts over high-end Northwoods unless you intend to overclock, and Northwood even outperformed Prescott in certain types of programs, however added that Prescott "would be the future" as more apps would be ready to take advantage of extra pipelines. So the question is, what is the situation today?

At one side, Prescotts can tolerate more energy instabilities (which supposedly leaded many Northwood cores to burn out) and was told to be a future-winner (which is yet to be proven I guess?). On the other hand, it's gets hot like a turbo-owen with a 3.2 Prescott within my case. With 2.4 Northwood, I get average temperatures of 30/35/45 for idle/average-load/heavy-load while with 3.2 Prescott, it's 55/60/65, and also very loud.

So what do you think? Is Prescott really finally the winner so I should stick with it with some cooling solution, or get the 3.4 Northwood already?

 

[Feldenak]

YGPM

 

[CurseTheSky]

What about Cedar Mill? Those are the later versions of the single-core Pentium 4's.

Better yet, tell us what you have for a motherboard and memory. You might be best off just keeping what you have until you can upgrade to Core 2 Duo or AM2, or buying a Pentium D (keep in mind, the 8xx Pentium D's are Smithfield - two Prescotts; the 9xx Pentium D's are Presler - two Cedar Mills).

 

[NickelPlate]

I believe the Cedarmills were the last of the P4 single core CPUs and the most efficient (heatwise). I have a P4 661 Cedarmill 3.6 running at 3.83. I upgraded from a P4 Prescott at 3.0. The fast cedarmills are still a good CPU but I'll tell you it still runs hot at 3.83Ghz. I'm using a Zalman 9700NT with AS5, I have excellent case cooling and still hit 58C~60C at 100% cpu load.

But the cedarmills are getting increasingly harder to find, they were never out for that long before the Pentium D's took over. Newegg still has the 3.2Ghz cedars for $75 and would probably OC to 3.8 just fine, higher on water.

 

[stevty2889]

even a 3.2ghz northwood wold be better than the 3.2 prescott. Partialy due to the shorter pipeline, northwood is actualy faster than prescott clock for clock in most applications. The increased pipeline length of prescott wasn't to give it more performance directly, it was to allow for higher clockspeeds. Even though the prescott has more cache, the cache is slower on prescott than northwood. Prescott runs much hotter than northwood. In gaming my northwood at 3.4ghz, was faster than my prescott at 3.8ghz. MP3 encoding was also faster on the northwood. Prescott did better at video encoding, due to SSE3 and improved hyperthreading, but overall I would take a northwood over prescott any day.

 

[stevty2889]

Originally posted by: CurseTheSky
What about Cedar Mill? Those are the later versions of the single-core Pentium 4's.

Better yet, tell us what you have for a motherboard and memory. You might be best off just keeping what you have until you can upgrade to Core 2 Duo or AM2, or buying a Pentium D (keep in mind, the 8xx Pentium D's are Smithfield - two Prescotts; the 9xx Pentium D's are Presler - two Cedar Mills).

He's talking socket 478..cedar mill, pentium-d's and later prescotts are all LGA775..sounds more like he's trying to get a CPU for a motherboard he already has..

 

[Phantomaniac]

If you're not overclocking, I doubt there will be any really noticeable difference on day to day use.. I'm currently running my Prescott 3.0E @ 3.6, idling at around 40 degrees. I really do miss my old Northwood though, which I got from 2.4 to 3.35 on stock volts, idling at around 25 degrees. If you stick with the Prescott, get a new cooler. I was idling at around 47-48 degrees, and a cheap Thermaltake 478 cooler & ducting lowered my temps 7-8 degrees.

 

[kmmatney]

Sounds like he has a Socket 478. I don't think the 3.4 GHz Northwood would be much cooler than the 3.2 GHz Prescott. I think there aren't too many options, other than getting a new MB. You can get an ASRock Dual VSTA and still use DDR memory and an AGP card, and then get a Socket 775 cpu, which will allow for a cooler running Cedar Mill, or much better, a E4300.

 

[VinDSL]

Originally posted by: inhuman
So what do you think? Is Prescott really finally the winner so I should stick with it with some cooling solution, or get the 3.4 Northwood already?

IMHO, get the 3.4G Northwood -- or buy a Tuniq Tower 120 HSF and live with the Prescott -- your choice!

I dunno... I *thought* about getting a Prescott a while back, but that 'gag reflex' kept popping up, like trying to eat a piece of rotten meat, or smelling a fart on a crowded bus, you know?

I decided having nothing was better than owning a Prescott... then, I ran across a deal on a P4EE, and if you'll pardon the pun, the rest is history!

With the Northwood, et al, the P4 came of age! They're simply excellent!

The Prescott was a failed attempt to improve on the Northwood -- at least that's the way I look at it... and I'm NOT thread crapping on Prescott owners! You asked... and I'm just voicing my opinion... that's all.

Anyway, as you've found out, Prescotts 'burns rubber' for sure, but they won't go any faster than a Northwood, so... to my way of thinking, the choice is obvious! Your dilemma is whether or not it's worth swapping out a Prescott for a Northwood, and I can't help you with that decision...

 

[apoppin]

the NW is better than the Prescott ... in every way ... and 3.4C NW will give some performance increase over 3.2 E Prescott
both are hyper-threaded

and if you just want to run cooler ... the NW is for you

 

[yuppiejr]

I say quit throwing good money after bad, the socket 478 platform is dead so why pay good money for a Northwood 3.4 that is totally outlcassed by a processor half it's price? The 3.4 ghz Northwood is going to set you back $200, for which you could easily purchase the ASRock 4CoreDual-VSTA board plus a Intel Core 2 Duo 4300 processor and re-use your RAM and AGP card for the same money... Plus you can ebay or "FS" your old CPU and mobo in the forums here to cover a chunk of the upgrade.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157107

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115013

Better yet, sell your entire current system to unsaddle yourself from DDR and AGP so you can build a new rig around current generation components.

 

[BadThad]

Good luck finding at 3.4GHz NW processor. If you do, you'll be paying out the a$$ for it because they they are extremely rare. Too bad you missed out on the 3.4EE's for $100 a couple of weeks ago.....that would have made you happy.

 

[VinDSL]

Originally posted by: BadThad
Good luck finding at 3.4GHz NW processor. If you do, you'll be paying out the a$$ for it because they they are extremely rare...

These guys have a pretty good stock of S478 P4s, including 3.4G Northwoods...

 

[f4phantom2500]

Originally posted by: VinDSL

Originally posted by: BadThad
Good luck finding at 3.4GHz NW processor. If you do, you'll be paying out the a$$ for it because they they are extremely rare...

These guys have a pretty good stock of S478 P4s, including 3.4G Northwoods...

$150 is a whole lotta money to pay for a 3.4GHz NW. You can easily get a much better processor for cheaper. IMO he should wait around 'til fry's has one of those good cpu/sh1tty mobo with agp and ddr combos to show up...assuming he has a fry's around him...if not then there are still definitely better and cheaper alternatives than that.

 

[inhuman]

Building a modern equivalent of my current system would cost me way too much (as of now, 3 GB DDR2 SDRAM, 2 IDE U-ATA HDDs, X1950 Pro 512 mb AGP - the AGP version of this card is cheaper than its PCI Express version and the PCI-Exp. version lacks the additional 256 mb memory -, PCI audio and tv cards and the 2.4ghz CPU to be replaced by a 3.2 or 3.4 prescott/northwood ), so I'm sticking to this as much as I can. I'm skeptic about using the 3.2E I bought because the heat it produces affects my system's overall performance, that's the major problem.

Unfortunately, "those guys" don't ship to Europe. There is one used 3.4C for 170$ up for bid in my area, so if I get that, I won't have to pay any significant extras for shipping. Bid is over in 5 days and there is no bidder so far and I'm hoping there won't be any, but I can get it immediately for 180$. What do you think? Meanwhile, I'm still trying to locate one for a lower price or one that's brand new, which can be shipped to Europe (or in my country in specific; Turkey).

 

[happy medium]

Pent 4 3.4 EE on ebay 135.00$ free shipping. NEW

 

[f4phantom2500]

wait...since when was an x1950pro agp cheaper than the pci-e? if that's the case in europe, then man, all your stuff's gonna be expensive, i wish you woulda told us that off the bat lol.


EDIT: oh, to answer your original question, Prescott and Northwood are both so old today that any difference between the two would be negligible if they were running at the same clock speed when compared to more modern mainstream processors. The 200MHz difference between your Prescott and the Northwood you're looking at would probably be negligible, but I would bet that the Northwood would be slightly faster overall (the Prescott may edge out every here and there). However, if I were you, I would just save my money until I had enough for a complete system overhaul. If the heat of the Prescott truly bothers you (which it really isn't an issue since they were designed to be able to withstand the higher temperatures), then get a better heatsink.

 

[inhuman]

Well, PCI-E version's bundle includes software and two games other than the driver cd, while AGP bundle comes with only the driver cd, apparently to subsitute for the price difference and you also get to be able to use crossfire with the PCI-E, so I think it's quite normal. As for the heating, like I said, it's not that I'm afraid of cpu getting burnt; it's the heat negatively affecting the other components. I benchmarked the system with both cpus, and I didn't quite like the results. Either I'll replace my case and stock heatsink&fan for better air circulation, or I'll replace the cpu.

"Pent 4 3.4 EE on ebay 135.00$ free shipping. NEW "

Good find, thanks! However, is Extreme Edition any good? I noticed that the 0.13 nm EE has a cache of 2 MB. I can't tell for sure what is good or bad anymore. It's SL7CH on Ebay
( http://processorfinder.intel.com/details.aspx?sSpec=SL7CH ).

edit: Strangely, prices of 3.4 regular Northwood are higher than 3.4 EE (is it still Northwood, with 2 mb cache?)

 

[apoppin]

EE is a NW with an "extra" 2MB L3 cache

technically is actually a "gallatin" as it came via the Xeon server core

it is MUCH faster than a similarly clocked NW or Prescott and runs cooler than the Prescott but a bit hotter than the NW

if it will work in your MB is is the best P4 ... arguably

 

[996GT2]

Originally posted by: inhuman
Well, PCI-E version's bundle includes software and two games other than the driver cd, while AGP bundle comes with only the driver cd, apparently to subsitute for the price difference and you also get to be able to use crossfire with the PCI-E, so I think it's quite normal. As for the heating, like I said, it's not that I'm afraid of cpu getting burnt; it's the heat negatively affecting the other components. I benchmarked the system with both cpus, and I didn't quite like the results. Either I'll replace my case and stock heatsink&fan for better air circulation, or I'll replace the cpu.

"Pent 4 3.4 EE on ebay 135.00$ free shipping. NEW "

Good find, thanks! However, is Extreme Edition any good? I noticed that the 0.13 nm EE has a cache of 2 MB. I can't tell for sure what is good or bad anymore. It's SL7CH on Ebay
( http://processorfinder.intel.com/details.aspx?sSpec=SL7CH ).

edit: Strangely, prices of 3.4 regular Northwood are higher than 3.4 EE (is it still Northwood, with 2 mb cache?)

The EE has the Gallatin (Xeon) core...16KB L1 instruction cache and 512k L2 cache just like the Northwoods...the 2 MB of extra cache is L3, meaning that it runs slower than the L2. However, it does boost performance by a small bit.

To the OP, I think that you should wait for a cheap Core 2 Duo or AM2 deal before shelling out more cash on an outdated system with almost no upgrade path.

 

[inhuman]

Thanks for the suggestions. Yes, my mobo supports EE. I'll see what to do.

 

[apoppin]

it boosts performance by quite a bit .. especially in some games

and i believe the L3 cache runs at full speed ...
i forget

but it is the fastest P4 and mine OCs to 3.8Ghz

 

[Nathelion]

Don't throw good money after the bad; the performance increase you'll gain even if you get an EE and overclock it is negligible by modern standards. You could get a faster system even if you're on a tight budget these days. Not to mention after Barcelona and Penryn come out, older models are probably going to fall in price even more.

I'm in a similar seat with a 3.0 GHz Prescott and 2 GB of DDR. I'm planning on waiting until both Barcelona and Penryn are out and the market for them has matured a bit. Go next christmas!

 

[GEOrifle]

Originally posted by: Nathelion
Don't throw good money after the bad; the performance increase you'll gain even if you get an EE and overclock it is negligible by modern standards. You could get a faster system even if you're on a tight budget these days. Not to mention after Barcelona and Penryn come out, older models are probably going to fall in price even more.

I'm in a similar seat with a 3.0 GHz Prescott and 2 GB of DDR. I'm planning on waiting until both Barcelona and Penryn are out and the market for them has matured a bit. Go next christmas!

Well said, it's better jump from P4 system to straight Q2Extreme or Penryn for next year ....
I got just one problem:will my 9800PRO last until next year?
Will be new AGP(X1950PRO-7950GT) card waste of money?

 

[BadThad]

Originally posted by: apoppin
it boosts performance by quite a bit .. especially in some games

and i believe the L3 cache runs at full speed ...
i forget

but it is the fastest P4 and mine OCs to 3.8Ghz

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