P4 1.7GHZ versus P3 1.0 GHZ systems

[rw120555]

I'll be buying a new computer soon (my employer will pretty much insist on a Dell Optiplex, so options are limited).

I'm comparing an Optiplex GX150 P3 1.0 GHZ system with 512MB memory versus an Optiplex GX400 P4 1.7 GHZ system, also with 512MB memory. Other than that, the systems are pretty much identically configured. The GX400 costs $2635, the GX150 $1,900. The cost differences reflect differences in the processor cost but also the more expensive memory used in the P4 system.

So, my question is, do you get enough of a performance boost to justify that $700 difference? My impression has been that the higher speed Pentiums don't necessarily give you that much of a boost.

Other factors to consider (a) The GX150 maxes out at 512MB so I couldn't add more later (b) that $700 can be "banked" and applied against other purchases over the next several months. I think I read somewhere that P4s will be coming out that can use cheaper memory.

Operating system will likely be Win98 but that may eventually change to Win NT, 2K or XP.

Thanks for any input. RW

 

[Wah]

i think in the long run, the p4 will be better. as software becomes optimized for p4 you'll see the performance margin increase overtime.

 

[dOrKuS]

really depends on what you need it for. in the office i work at most people dont need more than a 400. however, if you are planning on doing heavy graphics work i would opt for the faster processor. that 512 is more than most people would ever need anyway...at least in an office setting. good luck with the decision making process!

 

[Def]

It really depends on what you will do with it.

If you are doing something like Photoshop, then get the P4. That is one application where it excels.

If you are doing regular office stuff(Word, email, Excel), just get the P3 1Ghz and "bank" the $700.

Take a look at the 1.8Ghz P4 article on the front page and check out the benchmarks. See where the P4 really shines, and where it falls flat on its face(more often than not).

 

[rw120555]

Thanks for the comments so far.

My uses: Probably no heavy-duty graphics work. There is a lot of heavy statistical analysis, sometimes of a million data records or more, using programs like SPSS. I'm currently using a Pentium 400 with 128MB, and some jobs can take hours, so whatever I get should be an improvement. I wonder, though, how much I am limited by HD speed as opposed to processor speed.

In the next six months, I will have $ to buy new computers for people working for me. My current intention is to hold on to this machine for myself for a few years, but if something a lot better will be coming along soon, this computer could become a hand-me-down for someone else.

I'm always torn between (a) buying something that will feel underpowered in a year or two [my 10 year old complains about the machine I was using for myself just 3 years ago!] and (b) paying top dollar for the latest technology for marginal gains and not having the money available later. I wonder if more frequent upgrades of stuff that isn't quite top of the line isn't better than less frequent upgrades of the very best stuff (but then, there is that pain of setting up a whole new system too -- I'm not looking forward to re-installing all my software). RW

 

[Wingznut]

Sounds like the P4 will suit you better, especially in the long run.

 

[ElFenix]

the p4, once the data is in memory, will probably go faster since it can send that data at a much higher rate. also, consider a dual-processor system. its evident that you're a dell shop, so a dell precision workstation might suit your task better. i assume you have SCSI drives to get all the data into ram?

 

[erub]

Have you thought about adding more RAM yourself? Dell *KILLS* you on the price of RAM. It really is'nt that bad. You could buy 128 megs on 2 RIMMs, then buy another 2x128 for $55 each or 2x256 for $160 each (check pricewatch - Dell's optiplexs are ECC, and dont forget P4 RAM has to be installed in pairs). As far as P4s coming out w/ something that will use cheaper memory (Brookdale chipset) the more expensive cost of the RAM will not be offset by the cost of buying a whole new motherboard..plus you loose Dell's support I'd guess when you change the motherboard...Also, make sure you are buying PC800 RAM both with the Dell purchase and the upgraded RAM. Performance w/ the P4 takes a nosedive with PC600.

 

[MasterHoss]

Go for the P4...might as well, right? And yes, it'll show it's muscle as newer software is written to support the beast.

 

[rw120555]

Thanks again. Buying memory elsewhere and adding it myself has appeal. Going from 128MB to 512MB ups the Dell P4 cost by $577. But, I saw this at Buy.Com:

512MB KIT RDRAM RIMM 800MHZ FOR DELL PRECISION 420 600/733 -- $337.95 -- Kingston

Even though it says Dell Precision, is it likely to work in any P4 machine? (I notice that a lot of the rdram descriptions mention specific machines -- is that just for marketing purposes or is this stuff really machine-specific?) If the above would work ok, it looks to me like I could save $240 and be 128MB memory ahead.

SCSI drives are not listed as an option on the Optiplex, and even if they were I'd be reluctant -- seems like SCSI is a lot more expensive and capacity of drives more limited. The precision workstations look interesting but also more expensive, and I'm not sure if they are "blessed" or not (Dell Dimensions, for example, are not looked on fondly here). This insistence on Optiplexes has always annoyed me a bit, but once I got a few old ones in my home I started to appreciate how upkeep is easier when you are more or less standardized on a line. RW

 

[dullard]

<< Thanks again. Buying memory elsewhere and adding it myself has appeal. Going from 128MB to 512MB ups the Dell P4 cost by $577. But, I saw this at Buy.Com:

512MB KIT RDRAM RIMM 800MHZ FOR DELL PRECISION 420 600/733 -- $337.95 -- Kingston

Even though it says Dell Precision, is it likely to work in any P4 machine? (I notice that a lot of the rdram descriptions mention specific machines -- is that just for marketing purposes or is this stuff really machine-specific?) If the above would work ok, it looks to me like I could save $240 and be 128MB memory ahead.

SCSI drives are not listed as an option on the Optiplex, and even if they were I'd be reluctant -- seems like SCSI is a lot more expensive and capacity of drives more limited. The precision workstations look interesting but also more expensive, and I'm not sure if they are &quot;blessed&quot; or not (Dell Dimensions, for example, are not looked on fondly here). This insistence on Optiplexes has always annoyed me a bit, but once I got a few old ones in my home I started to appreciate how upkeep is easier when you are more or less standardized on a line. RW >>



I just made a similar purchase at Dell. I was going for 1 GB RAM and Dell sold their name brand memory for $1061 but Dell also sold 1 GB Kingston memory for $708. I bought both the computer and memory from Dell so I was guaranteed it would work, and saved in shipping. (Yes I could have gotten 1 GB elsewhere for $675, but it isn't worth the effort). Note: the Dell tech people claimed that the Kingston and Dell memory will not work together (you couldn't have the 128 MB and the 512 MB installed at the same time). They claimed it was since they had different numbers of chips on each RIMM - I have no idea if this is true or not.

I assume you have 2-3 year old IDE drives in your current machine. Newer IDE drives are much faster than those old ones, so you should see some nice improvement without going SCSI. Plus if you are worried about $700, then you certainly cannot afford SCSI. The gains can be marginal depending on the file size.

 

[rw120555]

Thanks Dullard. I was just looking at Kingston's web page and they had a 512MB kit for the Optiplex 400 for $338, so your prices sound right.

Did Dell install the memory for you, or did you have to do it yourself (and sacrifice the original 128MB in the process)? Either way, paying slightly more so you are covered by Dell's warranty is probably worth it. I called them about getting a 60GB drive instead of the 40 they were listing on their web pages, and they didn't seem willing to so customize for me.

I had 2 9GB Scsi drives on my last machine, and considered it a big waste of money. Added well over a $1,000 to the cost, and then the monster IDE drives came out. I finally just pulled the Scsi drives and put in a Maxtor 60GB ATA100 7200RPM drive.

 

[shathal]

The primary question SHOULD be - What is it you're going to do?

If you're only going to be running WORD &amp; such stuff, it'll make little difference - if you will do Media-type stuff, P4 will do a lot of good.

What will the systems' main use be?

 

[dullard]

<< Thanks Dullard. I was just looking at Kingston's web page and they had a 512MB kit for the Optiplex 400 for $338, so your prices sound right.

Did Dell install the memory for you, or did you have to do it yourself (and sacrifice the original 128MB in the process)? Either way, paying slightly more so you are covered by Dell's warranty is probably worth it. I called them about getting a 60GB drive instead of the 40 they were listing on their web pages, and they didn't seem willing to so customize for me. >>



No, I'll be installing the memory when the computer arives (hopefully on Tuesday). That means I will have an extra 128 MB, that I will keep around. The next P4 entering the office will get a free upgrade... If you feel the P4 route is worth the money, at least save that $240.
I had no luck at installing different drives either. Dell cuts costs by only allowing a few options (Gateway recently cut the possible options by about 75%). That way they buy in bulk, they only have a few spare parts in stock, the workers are more specialized, etc... You get a cheaper computer, but not exactly what you want. I had to settle for two 40 GB drives.

 

[rw120555]

Thanks again Dullard. Looking around Dell's web pages, I saw a lot of Kingston Memory, but I didn't see anything specifically for the Optiplex GX400. Did I just miss it, or is it labeled in a slightly confusing way? If you've got a link handy or other specifics, that would be great.

I understand how offering fewer options can cut down on costs. But, those same options are offered on Dell Dimensions. I know the Optiplex is a more conservative machine but I'm not sure why it would be so wild and crazy to offer a 60GB option.

Good point about using the 128MB for a different P4 machine. I may do that. I've never installed memory before, but hopefully this is a pretty simple process.

 

[dullard]

It is labeled in a confusing way. Call the tech support and they will give you the details you need (I was only on hold 5 minutes). I cannot answer why they have some options for some computers and not others. Installing memory is probably the easiest of all upgrades.

1) Open the case.
2) Find the memory slots (long straight black slots on the motherboard).
3) If there is memory in there, a slight tug will remove it.
4) Place the new memory in (again just a slight pressure is needed).
5) Close the case.

Note: some memory slots have clips on the ends to hold memory tightly in place, thus these will need to be opened first before inserting the new memory or taking out the old memory.

 

[rw120555]

Dullard, is this what you ordered? Or maybe this? They're not listed as being for the GX400, but the Kingston part #s seem to indicate that these will work. At $283 for 512 MB, it is even cheaper than buying direct from Kingston.

EDITED: Hmm, I can't seem to get my own links to work. Anyway, the 2 choices on Dell's pages are

KINGSTON TECHNOLOGY
512MB DELL DIMENSION 8100-800 MHZ DIMM KIT
Dell Part#: 297402-4
Manufacturer Part#: KTD-DM800/512
In Stock?: Yes


KINGSTON TECHNOLOGY
512MB DELL DIMENSION 8100-800 MHZ DIMM KIT
Dell Part#: 297404-4
Manufacturer Part#: KTD-DM800E/512
In Stock?: Yes

$282.95

Those part #s correspond to what Kingston has for the GX400. But, I'll call Dell to be safe. Thanks. RW