P3 or P4? Which system should I build?

[Chele]

I need a new cpu and mobo. I wish to stick to intel line. Should I build a P3 system or P4? I don't want to spend more than about $400 for cpu and mobo. I heard that P4 performance is actually a little less than P3 of same MHz so I am confused. Hopefully someone can help. Thanks.

CheleCity@bigfoot.com

 

[CStroman]

If you weren't sure you wanted to stick with intel, I'd recommend an Athlon system. An Athlon performs much higher than an equally clocked p4, and it costs much less.

 

[Rand]

Presuming AMD is not an option I can only recommend the P4.
Granted, at the same clockspeed the P4 performs considerably worse then a P3, but then the P4 is available at clockspeeds far in excess of the P3. Plus the P4 offers a much better future upgrade path.

 

[oldfart]

If you want to go PIII, there will be a pretty cheap hot setup soon. The new Celeron 1.1A will be out in January. It is a Tualatin .13u 256k cache 100 MHz FSB CPU. Basically, a 100 MHz bus PIII Tualatin with a Celeron name. It should be ~ $100. Put this on a $100 TUSL2-C, set the FSB for 133, and you have 1463 MHz for about $200. A little bit of extra FSB to round it out to 1.5 GHz should be easy.

 

[eplebnista]

I'd go with the P4 Socket 478 Intel DDR chipset for future upgradeability. Here are some links to a Processor, Motherboard and Memory at Newegg.com. The total is somewhat over $400 and the total price will be a little more than the prices shown as I didn't figure shipping for the last two items, but it shouldn't be too much more because it would all be combined in one order.

Gigabyte P4 DDR $142 Shipped
P4 1.7 Socket 478 Retail $204
256MB Crucial DDR $62

My 2¢,
eplebnista

 

[techwanabe]

<< If you want to go PIII, there will be a pretty cheap hot setup soon. The new Celeron 1.1A will be out in January. It is a Tualatin .13u 256k cache 100 MHz FSB CPU. Basically, a 100 MHz bus PIII Tualatin with a Celeron name. It should be ~ $100. Put this on a $100 TUSL2-C, set the FSB for 133, and you have 1463 MHz for about $200. A little bit of extra FSB to round it out to 1.5 GHz should be easy. >>



Oldfart, That sounds like a sweet system. How do you think it will stack up against say an AMD XP 1600+ upgrade from a PIII CUmine mobo system? Figure XP1600+ for ~$120, ShuttleAK31 ~$90, but a new case/PS and new memory will be needed too, another ~$100 there so it will be a little more than $300 to go AMD vs. the C1.1A for ~$200. What about the power leap option? Would that cheapen it enough?

 

[rwalterk]

Sheesh, if the guy wants to stick with Intel then give him some Intel advice (nothing against AMD, I'm about to buy a Duron 1Ghz).

What's your price sensitivity? The P4 platform will definitely give you more upgrade choices (socket 478, NOT socket 423). The P3 is solid when paired with the 815ep chipset but has no upgrade potential. If you have to save money, maybe get the retail Celeron 1.1 for $93 at Newegg (link here). They also have the retail P3 1Ghz for $134 (link here). If you can spend a little more, maybe get something like the P4 1.7 retail box for $204 (but make SURE it's socket 478, link here).

Again, the P4 (socket 478) has good upgrade potential; the P3 has none.

 

[spinn]

I'm considering a P4 as well (socket478), but I'm curious to know if this is the best route for processing digital video/audio. Are Athlons better suited for the gamers and P4s for the working professionals? Opening a can of worms...

 

[oldfart]

I still think in the PIII area, the new Tualeron 1.1 @ 1.5 with a mobo for less than $200 is a good deal. I wouldn't get the Coppermine 1.1 with the new one just around the corner. As far as an upgrade path goes, there is always a new thing comming out. There are more reasons to upgrade a motherboard besides CPU support. How many AMD guys got new mobos to support DDR ram? They could have stuck with SDRAM boards and put in a faster CPU. I don't think the Tualeron @ 1.5 will be quite as fast as an XP 1600, but it will be pretty close. It depends on what your current setup is and what you want to reuse from it. I'll probably get this setup, use my same 512 meg of SDRAM, same PS, etc. I can sell my current CPU mobo for close to $200. It will basically be a free upgrade for me.

 

[rwalterk]

Oldfart does have a good point about the Tualatin core which I almost forgot; it's quite a bit faster than the Coppermine. There's a good article at Tom's Hardware here that shows benchmarks between Celeron Coppermine, P3 Coppermine, Celeron Tualatin, Duron, and others. An interesting buy might be the P3 1Ghz Coppermine; it's still faster than the 1.2 Celeron Tualatin (not taking into account overclocking). The newer 815ep motherboards accept both Coppermine and Tualatin CPUs.

 

[oldfart]

The only reason the PIII 1 G Coppermine may be faster than a 1.2 Tualatin Celeron (I dont think it actally is) is the PIII runs on a 133 MHz bus, the Tualeron, 100 MHz FSB. Run the Tualeron 1.1 on a 133 (or higher) FSB, and that advantage is gone. Run it @ 136 FSB, and you have a PIII 1.5 Ghz Tualatin.

 

[BraeBrae]

<< I'd go with the P4 Socket 478 Intel DDR chipset for future upgradeability. Here are some links to a Processor, Motherboard and Memory at Newegg.com. The total is somewhat over $400 and the total price will be a little more than the prices shown as I didn't figure shipping for the last two items, but it shouldn't be too much more because it would all be combined in one order.

My 2¢,
eplebnista >>



Considering that the price for 333 MHz DDR is above that of 800 MHz RDRAM, I'd consider the 850 mobo with 478 P4.

 

[MilkPowderR]

<< Oldfart does have a good point about the Tualatin core which I almost forgot; it's quite a bit faster than the Coppermine. There's a good article at Tom's Hardware here that shows benchmarks between Celeron Coppermine, P3 Coppermine, Celeron Tualatin, Duron, and others. An interesting buy might be the P3 1Ghz Coppermine; it's still faster than the 1.2 Celeron Tualatin (not taking into account overclocking). The newer 815ep motherboards accept both Coppermine and Tualatin CPUs. >>



yeah man tell me about it, this P3 1Ghz oc'ed at 1450 is going nuts FAST!! A little while back, I ran the 3Dmark 2000 when I oc'ed this machine to 1410mhz and got a score of 8751 on a slow GF2 GTS 32mb with Det 6.18 old driver!!!!..and 8854 at current oc of 1449(set to 144fsb in the BIOS) and these scores beat all of them systems except the P4 2.0 and the Athlon 1.4 you've linked to, and they all are equipped with a GF3 cards!!!! Mine wiped all of em except two of them ehhhh hehehehehehehe Here's the screenshot for a 3Dmark 2000@ P3 1Ghz@ 1410. The one with 1449mhz is in the madonion but I don't think it will display it for you..does it? If ya want it I'll post the link.

Sorry for the bragging but to the original poster, this oc'ed speed isn't practical for everyone when they get a cD0 P3 1Ghz FCPGA. Expect to see usual oc of 1333mhz(133fsb) or higher but not a crazy oc of way beyond 1.4Ghz like I did, hehe. I hope Im not misleading ya. Btw, you would still get great scores even at a 1.33Ghz.

 

[Jerboy]

<< I need a new cpu and mobo. I wish to stick to intel line. Should I build a P3 system or P4? I don't want to spend more than about $400 for cpu and mobo. I heard that P4 performance is actually a little less than P3 of same MHz so I am confused. Hopefully someone can help. Thanks.

CheleCity@bigfoot.com >>




I have not personally confirmed this, but I heard P4 and SDRAM's are mismatched and will run crappier than P3 on SDRAM. You have to get RDRAM(can you say EXPENSIVE?) to get the most out of P4 meaning you'll have to re-buy the memory.

I'd get a P3 Tualatin or even Celeron Tualatin(1.2GHz) and use SDRAM.

 

[oldfart]

MilkPowderR, check out my thread @ overclockers.
Jerboy, RDRAM has come way down in price. $75 for 256 meg is very reasonable.

 

[MilkPowderR]

oldfart, what did you post there?.. eh? hehe I got banned from that site so I can't get in there anymore, hahahaha tell me what you sposted or give me link so maybe i could see it?

 

[Jerboy]

<< Jerboy, RDRAM has come way down in price. $75 for 256 meg is very reasonable. >>




What brand are you talking about? If you're talking lowest on pricewatch, 512MB SDRAM is $40, 256MB RDRAM is about $75.

High quality tested RDRAM go for $150 on Mushkin.

 

[oldfart]

Samsung PC800 is going for $75.

 

[MilkPowderR]

Well??? c'mon tell me oldfart, what did you post there????????

 

[oldfart]

THIS. Just looking for your input along with ol' man if he's around.

 

[MilkPowderR]

<< THIS. Just looking for your input along with ol' man if he's around. >>



Still no good... I can't get to that link. It won't display because I am banned from that site. There's no way I can get to that unless I use different ISP so I cannot see what the you are trying to say. sorry. I guess let my good ol'man respond to it since he's found a spot for him to stay there. I hardly see him here any longer neither the ardocp forum.

 

[MilkPowderR]

what the.... I didn't highlight my own reply, hmm... I meant, "Hardocp forum".

 

[oldfart]

Why are you banned? I posted about my plan to do a C1.1A @ 1.5. I was asking about mobo and QUIET HS/Fan recommendations. That's all.

BTW, be careful about using the [ H ] as in OCP or as in highlight. Leave some spaces like I did.

 

[MilkPowderR]

oh man.. this is not my day.. I spent some time to reply to your reply and something happened and erased everything I typed!!!! arrgggggggg..:disgust: :frown: sorry about that...
To make everything short, I got banned because I personally attacked someone because someone pissed me off.

As for the plan for your new T-Celeron system, sounds good to me about the fans.. i know the Thermalright SK-6 is a good HS and don't have to get the combo, just the HS and select the type of fan you desire.. such as a 80mm Panaflo fans on the SK-6 or, try look into other good HSF's for the sockets. here's one of the site that gives you an idea what's popular and provide good cooling Here

 

[criter]

01.12.22
THE main reason to go with the P4 would be the 400MHz fsb + DDR memory. Provided you also get a mobo that supports 400MHz fsb and DDR memory. Then the X4 AGP cards will startle you and force you to get that 21" monitor (another $400 to 600 [viewsonic GS815.])
The P3 are basic 100fsb and SDRAM systems.
Intel really does NOT want to have their investment with RDRAM to be choked off with mobo memory supporting DDRAM, so geting mobo support for the Intel cpu and then pairing that to the mobo chipset (ie. VIA) is going to take some research.
Another consideration with the modern mobo is their support for the ATA 133 hard drives (hd), like SCSI performance w/o the $300-600 hd + controller card. ATA 100 hd are not so bad, esp since 30-60GB are near $125, but a full 60GB hd sure takes a long time to defrag!!!
Further having two or three hd, a CD (kenwood) and CDRW (plexwriter), a flopy, couple case fans, gpu & cpu fans means that stock 230W power supply(ps) is kinda antique... so consider the +400W ps, another $100.
Rumor is, having rounded cables within case, instead of the flat ribbon cables will improve internal case air flow, and the rounded cables come in a couple diferent colours; about $4-8 each.

PIII 700E(35*C) + hedgehog/delta(7400rpm), Aopen AX34ProII mobo, Elsa GeForce2 GTS 32MB, three PC-150 256MB sdram, viewsonic GS815 monitor, robotics 56K x2 external modem, plexwriter 12/10/32a CDRW, kenwood 72X CD, two 30GB IB