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P180, what PSU can fit in it?

Be wary of modular PSUs. What you need for the 180 is a PSU with fairly long cables - check the Antec site for recommendations. I would go with a Zippy or a Fortron Sparkle FSP550-60PLG. FYI: The Egg doesn't have the best price on those.

.bh.
 
Originally posted by: Zepper
Be wary of modular PSUs. What you need for the 180 is a PSU with fairly long cables - check the Antec site for recommendations. I would go with a Zippy or a Fortron Sparkle FSP550-60PLG. FYI: The Egg doesn't have the best price on those.

.bh.

Ive been hearing good things about the Enermax Noisetakers and Antec Truepowers II...... since they both have extra long cables, they work good in the P180
 
Theres a whole thread on the pitfalls of modular power supplies....

also the place where I purchased the beast (TURBO-COOL® 510 DELUXE)which I fondly call it recommends very strongly against modular PSU`s!!


3. DON'T LOSE POWER WITH MODULAR PLUGS
Due to their look, convenience, and cost savings for manufacturers, modular plugs have become a popular power supply feature. Unfortunately, there has been little or no discussion of the impact of this feature on overall performance and reliability. The fact is, modular plugs limit power by adding to electrical resistance. The voltage drop can be as much as would occur in 2 feet of standard wire. Worse yet, modular plugs utilize delicate pins that can easily loosen, corrode, and burn, creating the potential for a major system failure. That's why pros specify uninterrupted wire!

Also there was an article from SilentPC Review---
Article--Mike Chin
Editor/Publisher, SPCR


This is to clear up the enormous confusion I've noticed in the last few months about dual 12V line current specs on PSUs.

SPECS

Version 2.0 of Intel's ATX12V Power Supply Design Guide began recommending dual 12V lines for PSUs that can deliver more than 18A at 12V. Why? To abide by safety requirements of UL and EM 60950, which stipulates not more than 240VA on any wires or exposed traces. Intel's PSU Guide calls for a current limiter that keeps current to under 20A on each of the 12V rails: 12V x 20A = 240VA.

What is the safety reason for this 240VA maximum? It's the maximum recommended for an electronic device that a consumer will have reasonable likelihood of access. In plain terms, it might be to keep people from zapping themselves inside a PC, or more likely, accidentally creating a fire risk. This safety "rule" does not apply to any electronic or electrical devices where the chance of consumer exposure is low, such as a TV or CRT monitor, for example.

It's important to remember that even though there are two "independent" 12V lines, they still draw from the same main source. It's highly unlikely that there are two separate 120VAC:12VDC power conversion devices in a PSU; this would be much too costly and inefficient. There is only one 12VDC source, and the two lines draw from the same transformer. Each line is coming from the same 12VDC source, but through its own "controlled gateway".

PSU makers' specs are misleading in that thay rate the current capacity of each 12V rail independently. What really matters is the total 12V current: Generally, up to 20A is available on any one 12V line assuming the total 12V current capacity of the PSU is not exceed.

What the above means is that you don't need to worry about imbalances in power draw on the 12V lines ?as long as no single rail is asked to deliver more than 20A. PSU makers seem to mark each line for max current on a purely arbitrary basis, probably more for marketing reasons than any other. A PSU rated for 32A max on the 12V lines can be labelled many different ways:

12V1: 18A, 12V2: 14A
12V1: 17A, 12V2: 15A
12V1: 16A, 12V2: 16A
12V1: 15A, 12V2: 17A
12V1: 14A, 12V2: 18A

It could be marked 20A + 12A, but being a cautious bunch, the engineers will probably not specify more than 18A on any one line. This gives 2A headroom to allow some room for error for the current limiting circuit.

REALITIES

Note that 12V2 is supposed to supply only the AUX12V (2x12V) 4-pin plug, which feeds only the CPU. With PSUs that adhere strictly to the ATX 12V v2.xx Guide, 12V1 supplies 12V to all the other components that require it. This might lead to a problem with very high power gaming systems that utilize two high power video cards. Current high end VGA cards by themselves can draw >90VA each. Much of this comes from the 12V line via the 6-pin PCIe connector for the VGA card. If you add several hard drives and optical drives, the 240VA limit may be too low.

The current ATX12V v2.2 spec was created before dual VGA card gaming configurations for Intel boards were announced. SLI, being an AMD feature that came many months earlier, may have been ignored by Intel's PSU design guide team.

Not all PSUs with 6-pin PCIe connectors follow ATX12V v2.xx to the letter, as the guide does not cover the 6-pin 12V PCIe outputs. This connector and its current delivery capacity was specified by nVidia, the originator of the SLI concept. nVidia maintains a list of power supplies that they have certified as being suitable for SLI systems. The question is, Where should this 12V come from?

I interviewed a number of engineers from several power supply manufacturers to pose this very question. The answers were surprising. All of the engineers I spoke with wished to remain anonymous. This is a summary of what they told me:

**Some PSU makers are using 12V2 to supply more than just the 2x12V or 4x12V connectors. It is often used to power the 6-pin 12V PCIe outputs.

**Many PSUs marked as having dual 12V lines actually have only a single 12V line ? they do not feature two <240VA power limiters specified by ATX12V v2.xx; they have only one Over Current Protection (current limiter) for the single 12V line.

**The 240VA current limit is considered a high cost, useless annoyance by most PSU makers. If multiple 12V lines are used, because the vast majority of components now use mostly 12V, the 18~20A limit for any line means that the precise power distribution to the various 12V output connectors can become critically important in some cases.

**The engineers point to the many high power pre-V2.xx ATX12V PSUs that had as much as 30A on a single 12V line. As a product class, those have not proven to be any more dangerous in any way than other ATX12V PSUs.

What's really interesting is that Intel has tacitly waived the 240VA limit requirement in its PSU validation program for the better part of a year.

Intel maintains a web page listing all the ATX12V they have tested that "meet MINIMUM electrical, mechanical fit and functional compatibility" with Intel desktop boards and processors: http://www.intel.com/cd/channel/reseller/asmo-na/eng/35815.htm

For the 32 ATX12V v2.2 PSUs tested in 2005 that are on this list, 17 models are identified as having at least one output line that exceeds 240VA. And yet, these 17 models are on Intel's approved list. According to the engineers I spoke with, the majority of these 17 models have just one 12V line. They also point out that there are another 20 or so ATX12V v2.0 PSU models on the Intel list, and none of them were tested for the 240VA current limit conformance. My sources say that if these models had been tested, more than half would not conform to the 240VA current limit because they have only one 12V line.

Now, my sources say, in the last couple of months, Intel has notified the PSU makers verbally that the 240VA current limit has officially been removed. This means a single 12V line is the accepted norm, never mind ATX12V v2.xx.

What does all this mean? Essentially, the only potential benefit of dual 12V lines is improved safety, and this is disputed by the engineers I spoke with. There are many downsides to dual 12V lines, including higher cost and the extra worry of ensuring adequate 12V current for all the components in complex, high power systems. For the consumer who is trying to make a choice among the myriad of PSUs available on the retail market today, the most practical approach regarding dual 12V lines and power capacity is to consider only the combined 12V current capacity.

EDITED Sept 17/05 with much more detailed info.

_________________
Mike Chin
Editor/Publisher, SPCR


 
Originally posted by: CraKaJaX
Jedi, I'm really considering the PC P&C....... but I dont want to spend anymore money 😕

If you dont stop, your poor ******* will be broke.😉
 
There are several good threads on dual 12V rails and modular PSUs. A couple here and
several over at General Hardware.

Even if i were going, a money no object SLI full Zoot system, from my reasearch, the best bet would be single 12V line non-modular. For $285.00 Zippy 6701 has 45A on the 12V line.
madshrimps.be did full load testing on it and said it was a SUMO Wrestler, voltage varied 0.1
from no load to full load. There are several PSUs in this class PCP&C. For price point
the Sparkle 550, DO NOT be put off by the name as it rates very well indeed.

If i had a modular or could not possibly live w/o one ;-) i would go to www.caig.com and
purchase a vile of ProGold, give a lite coat the contacts. But that's just me, i'm paranoid
because of past experiances with*DRY*,dirty or corroded connections. Not on PCs but
auto-electric repair, inside and outside the cabin.


Galvanized
 
Originally posted by: DruidAT
So, I should stay away from modular PSU's? I thought they were good. It handles wiring easily.


It's an opinion really... I've had my OCZ 520W Modular since last December, no problems at all so far. Very good for the money imo, even cheaper now since I bought it.
 
Originally posted by: DruidAT
So, I should stay away from modular PSU's? I thought they were good. It handles wiring easily.

Some people use them w/ no issues. I have read what Jedi posted and have read elsewhere that you lose w/ a mod PSU. I don't have any experience there. imo you can't go wrong w/ pcp&c/enermax/fortron/seasonic(although cables are short for P180)/antec psu's.
 
When I got my PSU, I really wanted modular cables as well... I wound up going with the Antec NeoPower 480. I've monitored it with a voltmeter and it's right on par with what all the voltages should be. It's not the best as far as ripple goes, but it's not bad either.

It's cables are plenty long to reach ALL areas of the P180. I've been very happy with it so far. 🙂

EDIT: Oh yeah, and did I mention it's ultra quiet as well? 🙂
X
 
Wow.. thanks prdfy =/ Now I'm going to have to buy one.. lol

Thats funny, I was just on their site yesterday looking to see if they had other modular PSU's besides the NeoPower 480, and I saw nothing!! They must have just announced this today?

X
 
Originally posted by: eastvillager
I put the pc p&c 510 into mine, but I wasn't on a budget.

Did you need extensions? And did you run the 4pin under the mobo? I tried to run it under with my OCZ 520W, but the fit is so tight it's very hard to get under... especially because of how the OCZ comes sleeved and all.
 
Originally posted by: prdfy
Antec just released a new modular power supply that looks to be a very good option for the P180.

http://www.antec.com/us/pro_p_NeoHE.html

No word on the price yet, but that's the one I'm getting for my P180.


WOW, you read the specs on that bad boy, i want one.
85% efficent, rated at 100% power at 50C @ 24 hour duty. man when are they coming out. i need a new power supply this looks perfect.
3 12v rails (seems like a gimick but interesting) the 500 watt one can supply up to 475 watts combined on that 12V (yes u loose some from the 3.3 and 5, but still 90% of the power can be on the 12v lines!!!)
 
Yea, I think I'm going to scratch the PC P&C thought and try out one of these suckers, looks very nice. Wonder what the price will be? I'm not in any hurry though 🙂
 
Yeah, I think it was just announced today. I've been looking for weeks for a PSU for my P180, and I would have bought the NeoPower 480 if it wasn't for the position of the intake fan.

None of the PDF manuals for the NeoHe models work yet, but the product flyer links work. I want to check the cable lengths before buying, so I'll wait for the manual to be sure.

This is just what the P180 needs. One exhaust fan, wide open intake grill, modular cables, high efficiency and active PFC. Sounds perfect to me.

I haven't found references to the NeoHe anywhere else and even the Antec store doesn't list it yet. If you find some prices, post em and we'll compare.
 
personally I love my PCPC turbo cool 510 deluxe!! 🙂

as my wife said-- $200+ worth of power supply you better like it!! lol
 
I got the Fortron AX500 with the ASUS A8N Motherboard, It works...

Not long enough to hide behind the motherboard but I just run it stright up and there is some slack...As soon as I find that dang digital camera I'll post pix.
Factory shethed cables are nice too ;p
 
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