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Oxidizied / flaking clear coat solution,

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More pics of the above on going resto, some after pics coming in a few days, I think the car was resprayed with a clear coat, 1998 Celica GT4,

 
I hope to show 2 ongoing restorations, pictures say more, , these next pics show the usual oxidization as seen on factory finishes (roof), , and should be finished in a few days, ongoing pics should show my method,



 
Opps, above 2 pics and following 2 pics, 93 toyota something, ??. bonnet and boot have slight oxidation,
Before boot picture, please note the reflection of surrounding building on the glass is clear , reflection off boot is slightly UV damaged and is blury??, and unclear,
 
Car needs a paint job.

I used to see peeling clear coat all the time, most of those cars had a sticker in the window that said "Protected by Blue Polly". I never wanted to try Blue Polly after that.
 
Once the clear is peeling there is no fix that I'm aware of but sand and respray.

Some oxidation can be buffed and cleaned up. I've seen that before. But peeled clear? Nope.
 
OK, update is I saw the car this morning, and arranged for it to be here tomorrow, as I still have about %60 work to do,

PLease note, both front guards are damaged, panel beating and repaint with a red colour that will not match, $350, can replace both guards second hand $150, so I will not touch the guards on it, and change them over when the good ones come, , Door are about $75, so we can replace guards and doors for $300,we shall see, no painting, and better chance of red colour matching, so tomorrow I will not touch the guards or doors, there is plenty of peeling clear coat to remove, there is a load more work to do on the bonnet,

The story of this celica it arrivied looking amazing, bonnet , roof, rear wing, and bar, look like flaky white ice, and his mummy wanted him home, so I was only able to get about 4 hours work on it, please note there is another 8 hours work required, please also note some panels are buffed, some are not, all will be re-buffed and a protective coating apllied to match glass like reflection,
 
SparkyJJO said:
Once the clear is peeling there is no fix that I'm aware of but sand and respray.

Some oxidation can be buffed and cleaned up. I've seen that before. But peeled clear? Nope.
Click to expand...

Nope, you both are wrong,

Please note, Oxidizing /clear coat, " solution",

Not respray,

Please tell me this car needs a respray, :whiste: no wait, just wait untill I get this finished, and I will ask again,

There is no need to respray on slightly to Med oxidized cars, respray's cost $3,000 to $5,000, so far this Celica has cost about $40 in materials,


 
Well, a respray would fix all the scratches and stuff and god knows what the paint looks like up close. Plus the bumper looks totally off. I agree that paying several grand to respray that car is far from worth it and the home-brewed method is best for a car like this, but you can't say this is as good as a respray. Good enough yes, but not as good.
 
Without the clear coat, what's protecting the paint? Are you planning on doing this every day to keep up the finish?
 
ino said:
Nope, you both are wrong,

Please note, Oxidizing /clear coat, " solution",

Not respray,

Please tell me this car needs a respray, :whiste: no wait, just wait untill I get this finished, and I will ask again,

There is no need to respray on slightly to Med oxidized cars,
Click to expand...

That's what I said, read it again. Oxidized, yes, you can clean most of that up. Peeled, no, that requires a respray. Oxidized clear and peeled clear are not the same thing, though severe oxidation can lead to peeling.
 
[FONT=&quot]
nerp said:
Well, a respray would fix all the scratches and stuff and god knows what the paint looks like up close. Plus the bumper looks totally off. I agree that paying several grand to respray that car is far from worth it and the home-brewed method is best for a car like this, but you can't say this is as good as a respray. Good enough yes, but not as good.
Click to expand...


Ok, thanks, I was wondering where to start, totally off bumper, Actually I think the rear bumper area will turn out the best part on the car, I hope you have not ginx ed it, haha, pic coming,

You are right, a respray won't fix all the scratches and stuff, I will have to do that myself, ,
I agree that paying several grand to respray that car is far from worth it , [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]lets see what is worth, [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1990 Toyota Celica Gt4 St185 all wheel drive turbo[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Australian delivered wide body factory 3sgte[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Big turbo, blow off, worked motor, recently rebuilt, a rocket,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Value in Sydney of a pretty one, Australia, about now, roughly + Or - $4,400, [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Two Guards,=$75 x 2,=$150,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]One door, = $75, too many car door dents, only $75 for a good straight no dents door, same colour, no matching problems, you can’t panel beat a door and paint it for under $75.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Backyard touch up materials, $80,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Wheels/ tyres coming $300,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Cost of car,$350, it was so badly flaked. Few little probs, odd wheels as can be seen.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Miscellaneous, $200,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]= $1,155.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]$4,400 -$1,155= PROFIT $3245, [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]But you can't say this is as good as a respray. I said I never wanted to respray, so I see no grounds for comparison, this not a question of to respray or not to respray, it is about fixing the oxidizing paint problems long term, cheap, no respray.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Respectfully Yours, [/FONT]
 
SSSnail said:
Without the clear coat, what's protecting the paint?


I mainly use a 100% synthetic polymer based. ... Zinc cross-linking technology, this is my personal method I have used last 15 years, please note cross-linked zinc tec is a sacrificial metallic compound that absorbs UV radiation, Similar line of thought when you put zinc cream on you nose in the sun to absorb UV radiation, and in my experience last 3-4 years on my cars, during that period it matures into a very hard durable surface, easy to wash with a microfiber cloth, which Is a scratchy cloth, but seems to bring out the shine just hand buffing dry,
Funny crazy story here, few years back, I went interstate to visit my son and daughter who are grown up and moved away, , and as usual I got to polishing their cars, but first I have to wonder the unknown streets to find the people who sell my particular brand polymer, it not easy to get, I can only buy it from one chain store, who bring it from America, so when I walked into this new store I started looking and bingo, half price, $9 a bottle, yahoo, walked out with a dozen bottles, 4 for the kids, 8 for my supply, right now some 2 years later, I have one and half left, and if anyone asks to get this polish put on their cars, I tell to just go around the corner and buy a bottle and I will put a little bit all over the car, and they can take the bottle and do it themselves in three months time, then 18 months from then on, with the thought that another coat will cover the last still good polymer coating, ??.
I have often been pretty amazed when I flick the dust off my car with the cloth, and just plough with a few birdshits stuck on the paint, and wipe it to shine, all done dry, all the time wondering how hard this polymer is,
So over thinking it, I think On the Mohs scale, graphite (a principal constituent of pencil "lead") has a hardness of 1.5; a fingernail, 2.2–2.5; raw gold–3.5; raw Platinum 4, a pocketknife 5.1; a knife blade, 5.5; window glass plate, 5.5; and a steel file, 6.5. Diamond 10, Using these ordinary materials of known hardness can be a simple way to approximate a surface hardness on a scale.]
I think and my observations show Maybe it is around gold, 3.5 which can also be polished with a microfiber cloth, ?? Without leaving scratches, my observation was done with a 10x mini magnifying microscope,
I suppose my next observation test I will do is get out my hand held 80x stereoscope microscope and use both natural gold nugget, and 21k gold coin with shape edging to rub on the polymer surface just to make an observation of affect, I will do that just for fun,
In any case you know Polymers and plastic is most commonly measured by the Shore (Durometer) test or Rockwell hardness test, but I still am unable so far to get a handle on the hardness of polymers that are crossed link with Zinc. I am still looking for facts to make an observation using the Shore measurement theory, bit more homework, keep you posted,


You said, Are you planning on doing this every day to keep up the finish?
Click to expand...


Now that you mention it, one experience of mine was to buy a 1998 Japanese import, in 2007, I drove the car for 3 years,2007 to 2010, not far, but still in use daily, I had 3 years of always very good shine, so good that never thought to buff or polish or touch it,, after that I stored it in the sun, in the back yard, where it quickly burnt badly, and things growing on it as you can see,

The thing is, after personally observing and owning the car over 6 years, I have this theory on this car, sorta goes like this, it never had a top clear coat, Some nice Japanese family brought my wagon in 1998, keep it in excellent condition and shine by not actually applying any polish or coating over the 9 years he owned it, perhaps he hand buffed every 3 years with a very fine metal polishing compound like brasso, or a fine gold metal polish that was water soluble and had no waxes or stuff to build up or leave a residue,?? , easy to wash off, before he or someone imported the car to me, he polished it nice and clean to get the best dollar, any way I get it and do nothing for the shine except broom wash at $2 car wash and shammy it, here we can remember shammy or leather is used to sharpen the barbers cut throat razor, so leather has an fine abrasive effect, so perhaps the nice Japanese man used a shammy too, ?? ( just theorically theorizing ), so for three years that I did use the car when I first got the car, was I just giving it enough abrasion each wash to maintain nil or none oxidization on the surface of properly applied paint by Toyota, I really do believe and have experienced 3 year of paint without a top clear coat or polish, which suggests to me provided you are willing to very slowly wear the paint surface with a shammy leather abrasion type abrasion on the paint surface to remove any oxidization at the microscopic level, ?? ,
So my answer to your question, Are you planning on doing this every day to keep up the finish? QUOTE
Is I will endeavour to at least maintain some panels on this wagon, maybe the left side, where I will continue to apply the polymer layers and continue observation of the hardness factor, depth of shine and the other side I will just remove the oxidized paint and growths seen in the pic, and attempt to polish with a shammy / leather, or a soluble metal polish no waxes, ??, and leave just the hard polished surface of the paint unpretected,

I think I will be able to maintain a mirror shine on both sides, ( except the side with the polymer will get visually deeper and getting deeper with each extra polymer coat, over say 15 years , ) that should lasts 18months to 3 years at which time I will make observations of both surfaces with a hand held 80x stereoscope to check for oxidization on the paint surfaces both sides and surfaces, I am also wondering as to the effect of microfiber cloth have on bear paint ( no clear coat or polymer, no protection at all, except white paint with an extremely high UV resistance, being very high white pigment content ), that has only been polished with soluble machine polish, ??,1 observation made by accident a few days ago is if apply a highly corrosive substance to the oxidized paint and growing stuff in the pic, and allow it time to toast the live stuff, and soften the bond between oxidized polymer know as a ion, and the surface of the good remaining plastic, adding to my observation that this type of corrosive cleaner does not have any effect on stainless steel, alloy, none oxidized plastic, non oxidized paint, it is all food for thought, anyway once the cleaner is finished, it is hard to rub off, with a microfibre cloth, this results in a %75 shine similar to a wet sand at around 1500 -2000grit surface finish,??, but the downer is it would bust my but doing it this way,

Will keep you informed if you wish,
Ps, as Part of the never ending search haha, I am on the trial ( ebay ) of a wagon Jap Import exactly the same as the one I purchased in 2007, it is exactly the year model , everything, K’s, presented or offered as mine was in 2007, now a1998 wagon again offered in 1013, I am going to check it or another same 1998 wagon soon, just to see if the paint is the same, high shine, no top coat, no polish, I have also previously checked out 2 other same cars deals in 2009 and 2011, they were all exactly the same, the question is how do they keep a shine from 1998, to 2007, and 2009, until 2013, the thickness and texture of the paint appears to be the same, but it is near impossible to see with high magnification any buffing swills, build up of polish, nothing, and all the same, I am gathering Photographic evidence now,

I got a scary thought that good well made paint surface made for Japanese enviromental conditions 1998 was vagualy meant to be imatated like Japanese jade pray beads, rubbered with leather fingers to polish off oxidizing effects on jade beads leaving them shiny, in the same way they rub there paint on their cars with leather, relitively speaking, ??> , ,

Hope that helps the new guys,, cheers.
 
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SparkyJJO said:
That's what I said, read it again. Oxidized, yes, you can clean most of that up. Peeled, no, that requires a respray. Oxidized clear and peeled clear are not the same thing, though severe oxidation can lead to peeling.
Click to expand...



With all respect, could you please clarify 2 points for me,, you say, " Peeled, no," that requires a respray.

I refer to the Number 2 picture showing peeling and peeled top coat on the bonnet, vent and water spray nozzle fitting removed,

Question No1, do you agree No 2 picture shows peeled top coat,???

Now I refer to Picture No 10, showing where I have quickly removed the same peeling top coat, also shows the bonnet has new scratches, and some peeling top coat not removed, along the windscreen side of the bonnet edge, ??. As I said, only 1/3 of the restoration has been worked on. Lets also remember that this is not a top class paint Job, it is removing oxidization, and restoring paint left on the car, specifically removing the oxidized surfaces, without removing any of very little paint layer/ thickness,,

Question No2, do you see that the peeling top coat has been removed, ??,and has extra scratches,??.

Yes or no answers please, ??.
Also,

You say, Oxidized clear and peeled clear are not the same thing, though severe oxidation can lead to peeling.[/QUOTE]

I agree, but my line of thought is with and for and directed at the new guy, young, got married five or ten years ago, brought a new car at that time, kids house, car, and bad times for all, means he cannot afford a respray, but he can see and has been watching slight oxidization starting and knows it won’t stop,, and does not have any experience ,but needs to make the car look good DIY for under a $100 materials, and above all does not want to take a lone chance at becoming a instant spray painter, or stuff it up first time,,

For their information in my words, please consider this line of thought, 2 types of clear coat are,
1, the clear coat type that is applied when the paint is applied, giving very good adheresion, and hangs on well right the the oxizidation process,
2, is clear coat that is applied at a different time as the paint, is the difference that causes clear coat to bubble and peel, it loses adheres ion to the paint surface, losing it's grip quicky,

That said, the good news is in my experience
Is on the top of oxidizing clear coat, you should find many old coats of oxidizing polish, even on a car 5-10 years old, oxidizing polish just takes the shine off even good clear coat, and will only require minimal buffing and expose good solid clear coat,, pics coming,

If oxidation is not really bad, visible oxidized paint “and visible oxidized metal , rust, you must paint at least that panel, roof or rear quarter, ,
Usually, I find the underlying paint surface is mostly perfectly alright, very little oxidation due to having so much pigment content, and being much more uv resistant then clear coat with no pigment or much UV protection, , So, at varying stages, Uv damage can be on the surface of the clear coat, ( which light buffing will remove ), and you have a clean rich colour, colour which only looked faded with oxidised clear coat on top of it,

Slight Oxidization look on a newer car may only be oxidizing polish layers, as well as a thin layer of oxidizing clear coat, most at surface level, and are just begging for a light buff,

Another point I want to make to the unexperienced guys is that I wish to show in pictures, a backyard easy safe method for anyone ( dummies included,), to accurately remove thin layers of clear or painted surface off cars, my line of thought is that most car painted surface are roughly about 10 pages of thin paper A4, thick, the top 3 pages thicknesses are clear coat, under that 3 pages thick of good solid coloured red pigment, then 3 pages thick of primer and undercoat, gray, then 1 page thickness yellow metal ect primer, always very thin,

I have a back yard simple easy way of ensuring the only a 1/16 of a page of the paper thickness is removed accurately over larger given areas, or perhaps up to a ½ thickness of paper thickness at one time, a methodical method of accuracy, real control of how to remove all clear coat oxidization, easy to follow instructions, no experience required, well some general mechanical skills is good, 🙂 pics coming soon,

Update on today , Celica arrived last night ,intermittent rain all day, due to lack of workspace, nothing, except I had a quick look at the car, the rear section shows a quick “ rough “ fix to remove badly peeling clear coat over the back of the car, that is where I will start asap, looks promising to me, pics coming,

Respectfully Yours,
Bask, asap,
 
Sounds like a fun car, I had a Saab that had flaking clear coat on some of the plastic parts, I was able to lift alot of the clear that would have chipped off using packing tape on the parts. I ended up sanding the mirrors down, masking off the rest of the car and just respraying them.
 
Harrod said:
Sounds like a fun car, I had a Saab that had flaking clear coat on some of the plastic parts, I was able to lift alot of the clear that would have chipped off using packing tape on the parts. I ended up sanding the mirrors down, masking off the rest of the car and just respraying them.
Click to expand...


Great trick, , works great, even peels more clear coat off that does not look like it ready to fit, , I am thinking about to peel more rather than sanding, I am looking for stickier tape, Thanks,

I wonder if you have seen this trick, this is what I do. it is about
1, " protecting " the plastic trim surrounding windows from sanding burns or sanding marks, and or buffer burns,
2, and able to sand under the plastic strips, that is very important,
3, getting or spraying paint under the plastic, helps painting lifting,
4, keeps over spray off the plastic, and keeps it clean,
5, always remember not to leave masking tape on plastic too long, some sometimes it leaves the adhesive on the plastic, if you ever get that, use some thinners or petrol to dissolve the gummy adhesive,

This Celica I am doing was given a clear coat and the masking tape was run on the plastic, so the clear coat was "up to " the plastic, and that is where there is allot of clear coat lifting around the plastic line, please note the small white dotes are bubbles,
Please note the paint scrapper and screw driver,( but I highly recommend 2 plastic filler applicators for the new guy, or 2 plastic credit cards, no sharp metal until you are good at it, ), I removed all the burs and sharp edges so I won’t scratch paint or plastic, I gently work the paint scrapper around first all the plastic,, careful not to chip paint anywhere ( might start rust, so carefully or cause the window leaks ),
Blue wire shows the plastic strip has a ¼ “ gap between plastic and roof, which is enough to clean first and then sand under the stripe, if you look under or behind the blue wire you can see a light brown wire, I always put in a thin wire first, if that does not lift and hold the plastic strip open enough, I slip in another wire, or a thicker one, you have to be gentle and careful, there was a split in the window rubber from drying out and splitting, that was already there, so I used some baby oil on the wire lets it all slip in easy, then clean the gaps with soapy water and tooth brush as well as the plastic, once the plastic is up I usually clean the plastic strip with a damp shammy, I try to get a shine, so the tape stick perfect,
I placed a short strip of masking tape to show how to and far to fold the tap under and stick it under the plastic, then I double the tap cover for extra protection, I try to lift and tap the plastic on a car first thing, and leave it on until I finish the job, whether it is stripping clear coat or repainting a car,
The gap and and cleaning the plastic and protection is worth all the trouble, being able to get the buff under or just under the plastic strips,
The biggest moment of stripping clear coat or oxidized paint and or repainting a car, to me is when I remove the tap then wire, and seeing clean black plastic lay back down on the paint in the sun, the highlighted sharp definition between paint and clean black plastic is surprising,
I know the job is finished ,, and I know I do not have to clean or remove all the sand and burn marks and impregnated buff compound colour in plastic right on top of or over a brand new paint job, that thought sends my blood cold,

Anyway, hope that helps, I have been doing this for 20 years, there is no problem, be gentle,
I also wonder if you would mind if I posted on your repaint thread, ??


Cheers,
 
Opps , I forgot to say , I used short lenghts of wire just show more, one full length of wire around the whole screen is better,
Sorry. it is on the wrong angle and please note white wire above door is too thin and does not open the plastic gap enough so I might try thin rope,
 
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