Seekermeister

Golden Member
Oct 3, 2006
1,971
0
0
Perhaps I have too much idle time, but I'm sitting here with my mind focused on an issue that I know is so basic to all people, that no one can be untouched by it...OWNERSHIP. But contrary to what one may think at first glance, it's not nearly as simple of an issue as it may appear. I expect that my little dissertation will have so many twists and turns, that I may lose most people before I approach my conclusion, but that shall not deter me.

The meaning of this word goes far beyond anything found in a law book or dictionary, because they generally deal with only tangible objects and their use of them. By tangible, I do not exclude items with "intellectual rights", such as music, books, software, etc. To truely own anything, means that the owner cannot lose it, by taxation, theft, loss or even death. A court has no jurisdiction or power over ownership. Since it is obvious that anything tangible can be taken away, "ownership" of these is another matter.

What can a person take to their death? The simple answer is their soul, but in reality, the subject is much more complex. The soul owns things that it has acquired in life, be they good or evil, or perhaps more commonly termed love and hate. But, because of the inevitable distortion of words, even these may be insufficient to convey what I have in mind. But considering the limitations of a forum post, I doubt that I can relate this without misunderstandings.

So, if no one really owns any tangible items, how should these things be considered? The pocession of all of these are temporary and their use would be better termed "privileges"...privileges are conditional and can be changed or removed. That does not mean that these privileges are frivilous or arbitrary. These privileges are what enable a person to retain, pay or give to others as they feel obliged, desire or need. Since I do not believe it necessary to explain need or obligation, I shall focus on desire.

One thing that I don't think that enough people understand, is that pocession of tangible items, which I shall collectively refer to as "wealth", carries with it a burden and responsibility. People are often admired because of their wealth, and this may have some merit. But, few understand the load that wealth places on a person, because this wealth invariably fosters the negative aspects of life, such as hate, envy, jealously, vanity, etc. This is why Jesus said that "It is harder for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven, than for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle" (cited from memory).

Does this mean that we should discard all things, and become a band of vagabonds...in no way! We have as great of a responsibility to use wealth, regardless of it's size, to do good. Good includes both taking care of ourselves and loved ones and helping others. But, simply paying or contributing taxes or tithes does not replace personal acts of love or charity. It is through these actions, that we foster an environment which promotes love within ourselves and others.

Unfortunately, too little of what we give to the government or churches reaches those in true need, and even when they do, the recipient is too often lacking gratitude, which is an essential ingredient in love. Although this form of charity is essential to sustaining life, it would be better served, if dealt with in a personal fashion. If you say that you don't have time for that, then you might as well keep your money, because your charity will do little good.

If it sounds as though I'm preaching, I will only respond by saying that I'm "preaching" to myself as much as anyone else.

 

imported_Shivetya

Platinum Member
Jul 7, 2005
2,978
1
0
Originally posted by: Seekermeister

Unfortunately, too little of what we give to the government or churches reaches those in true need, and even when they do, the recipient is too often lacking gratitude, which is an essential ingredient in love. Although this form of charity is essential to sustaining life, it would be better served, if dealt with in a personal fashion. If you say that you don't have time for that, then you might as well keep your money, because your charity will do little good.

If it sounds as though I'm preaching, I will only respond by saying that I'm "preaching" to myself as much as anyone else.

I disagree with the comment regarding donations to churches. The majority of them do get the money to where its supposed to be going.
 

ebaycj

Diamond Member
Mar 9, 2002
5,418
0
0
Originally posted by: Seekermeister
Perhaps I have too much idle time...

Yes, you do.

I have a feeling, that after reading your last thread, most people here won't even give you the time of day.

Why don't you go find a good "Religion" forum to post in?
You might actually find someone who cares to debate with you there.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: Seekermeister
This is why Jesus said that "It is harder for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven, than for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle" (cited from memory).

Does this mean that we should discard all things, and become a band of vagabonds
If it sounds as though I'm preaching, I will only respond by saying that I'm "preaching" to myself as much as anyone else.

So what do you do Tithe 90% and live on 10% in squalor or are you on the Church payroll?
 

WHAMPOM

Diamond Member
Feb 28, 2006
7,628
183
106
When you get ready to cash in your chips, do the world some good and will it to NPR.
 

WHAMPOM

Diamond Member
Feb 28, 2006
7,628
183
106
Originally posted by: Seekermeister
Perhaps I have too much idle time, but I'm sitting here with my mind focused on an issue that I know is so basic to all people, that no one can be untouched by it...OWNERSHIP. But contrary to what one may think at first glance, it's not nearly as simple of an issue as it may appear. I expect that my little dissertation will have so many twists and turns, that I may lose most people before I approach my conclusion, but that shall not deter me.

The meaning of this word goes far beyond anything found in a law book or dictionary, because they generally deal with only tangible objects and their use of them. By tangible, I do not exclude items with "intellectual rights", such as music, books, software, etc. To truely own anything, means that the owner cannot lose it, by taxation, theft, loss or even death. A court has no jurisdiction or power over ownership. Since it is obvious that anything tangible can be taken away, "ownership" of these is another matter.

What can a person take to their death? The simple answer is their soul, but in reality, the subject is much more complex. The soul owns things that it has acquired in life, be they good or evil, or perhaps more commonly termed love and hate. But, because of the inevitable distortion of words, even these may be insufficient to convey what I have in mind. But considering the limitations of a forum post, I doubt that I can relate this without misunderstandings.

So, if no one really owns any tangible items, how should these things be considered? The pocession of all of these are temporary and their use would be better termed "privileges"...privileges are conditional and can be changed or removed. That does not mean that these privileges are frivilous or arbitrary. These privileges are what enable a person to retain, pay or give to others as they feel obliged, desire or need. Since I do not believe it necessary to explain need or obligation, I shall focus on desire.

One thing that I don't think that enough people understand, is that pocession of tangible items, which I shall collectively refer to as "wealth", carries with it a burden and responsibility. People are often admired because of their wealth, and this may have some merit. But, few understand the load that wealth places on a person, because this wealth invariably fosters the negative aspects of life, such as hate, envy, jealously, vanity, etc. This is why Jesus said that "It is harder for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven, than for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle" (cited from memory).

Does this mean that we should discard all things, and become a band of vagabonds...in no way! We have as great of a responsibility to use wealth, regardless of it's size, to do good. Good includes both taking care of ourselves and loved ones and helping others. But, simply paying or contributing taxes or tithes does not replace personal acts of love or charity. It is through these actions, that we foster an environment which promotes love within ourselves and others.

Unfortunately, too little of what we give to the government or churches reaches those in true need, and even when they do, the recipient is too often lacking gratitude, which is an essential ingredient in love. Although this form of charity is essential to sustaining life, it would be better served, if dealt with in a personal fashion. If you say that you don't have time for that, then you might as well keep your money, because your charity will do little good.

If it sounds as though I'm preaching, I will only respond by saying that I'm "preaching" to myself as much as anyone else.

Anyone who expects gratitude for their charity is just trying to put people in their debt. Resentment is your just due!
 

Seekermeister

Golden Member
Oct 3, 2006
1,971
0
0
Originally posted by: Shivetya
Originally posted by: Seekermeister

Unfortunately, too little of what we give to the government or churches reaches those in true need, and even when they do, the recipient is too often lacking gratitude, which is an essential ingredient in love. Although this form of charity is essential to sustaining life, it would be better served, if dealt with in a personal fashion. If you say that you don't have time for that, then you might as well keep your money, because your charity will do little good.

If it sounds as though I'm preaching, I will only respond by saying that I'm "preaching" to myself as much as anyone else.

I disagree with the comment regarding donations to churches. The majority of them do get the money to where its supposed to be going.
I did not use the word "donations", when referring to what one contributes to a church. That is because these contributions are generally either tithes, which exceed that definition, or to a smaller degree, freewill offerings. Some churches offer no accounting of how these funds are used, to anyone, including their membership. Of course, this money can be used in many ways, some of which are not charitable...in the common sense of the word.

However, I have been on the receiving end of both church and government charities before, and while I was grateful for both, that coming from churches was fairly insignificent. This is not entirely the fault of the churches, because it is simply what has come to be in American society.

Yet, I didn't start this thread as a critique of either the church or the government. I only intended to look at the way that we look upon our belongings, and how we use them.

 

Seekermeister

Golden Member
Oct 3, 2006
1,971
0
0
WHAMPOM,

Anyone who expects gratitude for their charity is just trying to put people in their debt. Resentment is your just due!
This would only be true, if you consider love to be a debt. Every person alive is in debt to many people, but not all debts are paid in the same fashion. Love can never be repaid, it can only be returned. If you believe that you have or anyone else has a right to charity, simply because of some law, then we are not in the same book, much less the same page. If a person gives or receives charity in resentment, they would be better off keeping what they have, or not accepting help, depending on the role that they are fulfilling.
 

Ryan

Lifer
Oct 31, 2000
27,519
2
81
How is this supposed to relate to a person who does not believe in the soul? I see nothing cohesive stringing your tangent together - "ingredients to love", your notion of "love and hate". You were indeed correct when you said there would be misunderstanding, is there even a central point of this, other than to discuss "ownership" and how it relates to your world view?
 

Seekermeister

Golden Member
Oct 3, 2006
1,971
0
0
Originally posted by: Ryan
How is this supposed to relate to a person who does not believe in the soul? I see nothing cohesive stringing your tangent together - "ingredients to love", your notion of "love and hate". You were indeed correct when you said there would be misunderstanding, is there even a central point of this, other than to discuss "ownership" and how it relates to your world view?
Whether a person believes in a soul or not, this is still a basic concept to every person. Most atheists, that I have spoken with, professes a morality, regardless of it's foundation, or lack thereof. I regret that the central point evades you, because it should be apparent...if not, then just chalk it up to my poor articulation. Ownership is the underlying factor in most any issue, whether viewed from the personal or world view. It goes to the root of everything, including crime and war. I suppose that I might give an example of this, but I believe that would only detour the discussion in a direction that I would prefer not to go.

 

daniel49

Diamond Member
Jan 8, 2005
4,814
0
71
Originally posted by: ebaycj
Originally posted by: Seekermeister
Perhaps I have too much idle time...

Yes, you do.

I have a feeling, that after reading your last thread, most people here won't even give you the time of day.

Why don't you go find a good "Religion" forum to post in?
You might actually find someone who cares to debate with you there.


Its 11:08 AM pst
why don't you find a curmudgeon forum to post in.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
2,360
126
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Seekermeister
This is why Jesus said that "It is harder for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven, than for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle" (cited from memory).

Does this mean that we should discard all things, and become a band of vagabonds
If it sounds as though I'm preaching, I will only respond by saying that I'm "preaching" to myself as much as anyone else.

So what do you do Tithe 90% and live on 10% in squalor or are you on the Church payroll?

Yes Dave...he's a SHILL for the church :roll: