Owner Institutes English Only Policy at One Philly Cheesesteak Joint / UPDATE: HE'S BEING SUED

[kogase]

Originally posted by: saymyname
There is a big difference between a multi-bi-lingual counry and one where some people speak english and some people speak spanish, with no common language between the two.

Such a country would not exist. You are looking at it from the perspective of someone who can only think of things as they experience them right now. When the issue of multiple languages becomes big enough (bigger than it is now) people will learn what they need to out of necessity, whether that means the immigrants learning English or the American populace (native Americans, heh) learning Spanish. Of course right now the situation is blurry, but it won't stay like that forever.

 

[Beige]

I see no problem with assimilation and stuff but sheesh just say we only speak english and wont understand you if you speak spanish, french, chinese or whatever. Its not like they are required to hire bilingual people for their private bussiness right? I see what they meant but the way they stated it seems nasty to some or just straight to the point for others.

 

[BullsOnParade]

Originally posted by: EyeMWing

Originally posted by: BullsOnParade
Wow this thread is devoid of any damn facts.

First off illegal Hispanics in this country learn English at a faster rate than did any previous ethnic group in past history.
They are faster to learn English than the Koreans, Chinese even the Germans and non-English speaking Europeans. It is
to their advantage to learn english and they are doing so and the studies clearly show this.

In all my interactions with Hispanics who couldn't speak English well, they have been courteous even shy and I have tried
my best to help them out. I have to say I wonder how many Hispanics visit those damn sandwich shops and are rude about
ordering in Spanish. What's likely is that the owners have all but forgotten what its like to be an unwanted minority trying to
make it in this country. Their statement likely has nothing to with actual customers coming to their store as does with being purely political. As such it warrants any public criticism it gathers. They are not acting as private business owners because
if they were they'd sell their crap to whomever walked in with a buck. They're taking their stance to an altogether different arena.
I say deport their hypocritical immigrant asses.

I field phone calls at a non-profit organization EVERY DAY from people who don't speak english (this is somewhat exacerbated by the fact that one quasi-governmental organization that sends people our way has a spanish-speaking call-in line, but doesn't care to take notice that we don't)

About half the time, "No hablo espanol" garners "Okay. <repeat in english>" - the other half of the time, it garners all kinds of screaming.

I field phone calls for the Atlanta center for senior citizens services. I haven't yet spoken to a single Hispanic or spanish speaking person. I do though, get people who complain and shout to the high heavens and also spit racial slurs at me and supervisors here who are predominatly black. My point is that volunterring at non-profit community centers is a thankless job whether your constitutents are Hispanic or not.

In any case this stupid posturing is us behaving like the French and taking some umbrage that our language and culture is not being lapped up by these infidels of American-ness.

 

[mortong]

This is America Speak English?

You mean the language of immigrants from (wait for it)... Europe?

BTW, as has been previously mentioned, the language of America is primarily Spanish, French and English, with some smaller tribal languages remaining primarily in South America. Sheesh, if you're going to try to make a point that gets international attention, at least try not to be a stereotype.

 

[mortong]

There is another point to this: People always assume it's black and white; that you either speak English or you don't (ironically, most Americans overseas don't bother to learn the language of the country they're in, but that's a seperate can of worms). I've lived overseas in a non-English speaking country. The rough estimate is 2 years before you start to become reasonably conversant in the language, longer for those over 25 or 30 because the young human brain is designed to learn language, and that skill declines over time.

So to see someone who can't speak English well and assume they are lazy or don't want to learn is not only ignorant, it's incredibly arrogant given our behavior overseas.

It takes time to learn a language. Many immigrants do want to and will learn the language, but it's not something that happens overnight. Learn a second language and lose your American accent while speaking it before judging.

(edited for a their/they're typo - the most heinous of grammatical crimes)

 

[EyeMWing]

Originally posted by: mortong
There is another point to this: People always assume it's black and white. You either speak English or you don't (ironically, most Americans overseas don't bother to learn the language of the country their in, but that's a seperate can of worms). I've lived overseas in a non-English speaking country. The rough estimate is 2 years before you start to become reasonably conversant in the language, longer for those over 25 or 30 because the young human brain is designed to learn language, and that skill declines over time.

So to see someone who can't speak English well and assume they are lazy or don't want to learn is not only ignorant, it's incredibly arrogant given our behavior overseas.

It takes time to learn a language. Many immigrants do want to and will learn the language, but it's not something that happens overnight. Learn a second language and lose your American accent while speaking it before judging.

Being able to have a conversation and being able to FUNCTION are two very, very, VERY different things.

In the instance we're talking about here, you're ordering food. And it's not like a menu or anything. It's one damned thing. A philly cheese steak.

A transaction would go something like this:
<Emp> "Can I take your order?"
<Cust> "One cheese steak."
<Emp> "Fries?"
<Cust> "No."
<Emp> "$5.32"

This whoppingly difficult transaction requires that the customer know what the shop sells (cheese steaks. it's the ONLY reason you're in a cheesesteak joint), numerals, yes/no, how money is spoken of, and have a reasonable ability to read inflections (or know the word "fries", which, this being the United States, isn't very hard).

It's not as if we're communicating on any higher level with complex grammatical structures or in a social context. These things are covered in the first couple chapters of any "Spanish for English speakers" textbook, and are remarkably easy to pick up off the street.

I took Spanish in middle school. I damn near failed the class. But I know enough to be able to survive.

Talk to any foreign language teacher, and they'll tell you that there are several stages in learning a new language. There are the essentials - "I, you, we, one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten", survival (money, food, getting from place to place, "where is the bathroom?"), smalltalk (weather, clothes, how are you feeling, misc. stuff like that, basic grammar), giving/recieving instructions and the associated grammar with that, conversation and higher grammar, and communicating abstract ideas.

Ordering a god damned cheese steak is in the survival stage. Think about this. Damned near all of us know enough spanish to order a taco. Even those of us living in the boondocks. Just from advertising and children's TV shows and stuff.

"Yo quiero un taco"
"Quieres papas fritas?"
"No."
"Tres pesos y catorce centavos, senor"

We all know "Yo quiero" - Taco Bell saw to that.
You might not get "un", but you'll definitely get "uno" and they'll get the point.
"Quieres" might confuse you, but it's kind of like quiero, and who really cares what the next two words mean, you want a taco. So you say no. Sesame Street taught you that.
Tres pesos. Everyone and their dog can count to ten in Spanish. So you know you owe them three pesos. Sesame street taught you that y means "and". So you owe them three pesos and somethingorother. Who cares if you know that catorce means 14, or wtf a centavo is. Give them 4 pesos, and you get change.

Ordering fast food is not rocket science. It requires only the most rudimentary understanding of a language. I'd venture to say you could pick that much up COLD within a week.


And why do our children learn rudimentary spanish on Sesame street? Because we're neighbors with mexico. Surely a similar process happens with them, though I can't be sure.

 

[waggy]

link

seems he is getting sued.


PHILADELPHIA (AP) ? An English-only ordering policy at one of Philadelphia's most famous cheesesteak joints has prompted a city agency to pursue a discrimination complaint, but the owner said Monday he would not back down.

The city's Commission on Human Relations plans to file a complaint alleging that the policy at Geno's Steaks discourages customers of certain backgrounds from eating there, said Rachel Lawton, acting executive director.

Geno's owner Joseph Vento has posted two small signs at his shop, which is located in a diverse South Philadelphia neighborhood, telling customers, "This is AMERICA: WHEN ORDERING 'PLEASE SPEAK ENGLISH.'"

In doing so, Lawton said, Vento is violating the city's Fair Practices Ordinance, which prohibits discrimination in employment, public accommodation and housing on the basis of race, ethnicity or sexual orientation.

"It's discouraging patronage by non-English speaking customers because of their national origin or ancestry," said Lawton, adding that her staff would likely serve the complaint to Geno's on Monday or Tuesday. She did not immediately return a message from The Associated Press on Monday evening.

Vento, whose grandparents struggled to learn English after coming over from Sicily in the 1920s, said Monday that he has no plans to budge.

"I don't think I'm doing anything that's racist or discriminating," said the fiery 66-year-old, who says no customer has ever been turned away because of the policy. "I would say they would have to handcuff me and take me out because I'm not taking it down."

Geno's and its chief rival across the street, Pat's King of Steaks, form the epicenter of an area described as "ground zero for cheesesteaks."

Vento said he posted the sign about six months ago because of concerns over the debate on immigration reform and the increasing number of people from the area would could not order in English. The traditionally Italian community has become more diverse over the decades, with a growing number of immigrants from Asia and Latin America moving in.

After the city serves the discrimination complaint, Vento will get a chance to file a response. Lawton said the agency would hope to reach an agreement with Vento, but eventually he could be ordered to take down the signs or face fines.

If Geno's violates a city order, she said, the matter could end up in court.

"Let them do what they want to," Vento said. "When it comes, then we'll deal with it."

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: waggy
link

seems he is getting sued.

Sad... just sad. Especially given the fact that he has NEVER turned away a customer for not speaking English... he merely requests that people speak it.

If a judge does not dismiss this case our legal system is truly fscked.

BTW, language is NOT a "race, ethnicity or sexual orientation."

 

[fbrdphreak]

Good for him, fight it to the death. Daft bastards

 

[JDrake]

I live in Philly 🙂

 

[SarcasticDwarf]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: waggy
link

seems he is getting sued.

Sad... just sad. Especially given the fact that he has NEVER turned away a customer for not speaking English... he merely requests that people speak it.

If a judge does not dismiss this case our legal system is truly fscked.

BTW, language is NOT a "race, ethnicity or sexual orientation."

Their argument for discrimination is not something I can see standing up in court (especially if it gets to high levels). It is perfectly legal to discriminate based on what a person is wearing. If I own a business I can say I won't hire anyone that wears earrings. That automatically would be most women and quite a few younger men. Now, in effect that is preventing most women from being employed there, but it is not discriminating against them.

 

[JDrake]

Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: waggy
link

seems he is getting sued.

Sad... just sad. Especially given the fact that he has NEVER turned away a customer for not speaking English... he merely requests that people speak it.

If a judge does not dismiss this case our legal system is truly fscked.

BTW, language is NOT a "race, ethnicity or sexual orientation."

Their argument for discrimination is not something I can see standing up in court (especially if it gets to high levels). It is perfectly legal to discriminate based on what a person is wearing. If I own a business I can say I won't hire anyone that wears earrings. That automatically would be most women and quite a few younger men. Now, in effect that is preventing most women from being employed there, but it is not discriminating against them.

You need a good reason why you won't hire earring-wearing people though, don't you?