Overreaction or not? (realtor question)

[NetWareHead]

Marketing my property, looking for a tenant and a realtor is listing it.

A new potential tenant asked if there is enough room to fit a treadmill in the basement. Realtors response was affirmative but then went on to give all kinds of (IMO) unnecessary details. Realtor responded that there is enough room in basement for a treadmill but "you don't want to do that", "basement is unfinished", "basement seeps in rainfall" etc... IMO, the realtor should have answered the question as asked and not provided negative details. Especially to a potential who has not even seen the actual apartment unit and instead was turned away by the basement detail. Im not hiding the seepage; I have it defined in my lease that the basement is prone to seepage and tenants are advised to protect all personal property. But I would have liked the potential to come over, fall in love with the place and get curious about renting before knowing about this detail. After seeing the entire picture, the seepage may have been something they would have been able to live it. Highlight the best parts of the place first and foremost before discussing the negative, especially a detail like this that can be easily overcome.

Another situation. The second floor is ready to rent out and is being shown but the first floor is being renovated. I have put construction paper over all the first floor windows to block the view and keep that floor locked so there is no visible eyesore. The realtor wanted to inform each potential tenant that the downstairs is a construction zone. I disagreed with this and stated that the second floor is the only item that should be discussed; the first floor is not a rental yet. Why do they need to know about the first floor at all when they want to rent the second floor? I also stated that adding this detail is a detraction subject to scare people away. For the record, most of the construction is complete, it only needs drywall and tile flooring so its not much of a construction zone in the traditional sense (like framing). And the remaining work would be done during the day, not during quiet hours as defined by the city. Nor does a landlord need a tenant permission to perform maintenance/repairs. So I felt like the realtor was sharing too much information and the wrong kind of information. The realtor asked me exactly what to say if asked about the first floor unit and my answer was to say that it is not for rent and nobody lives there. Anything else is nobody's business.

The realtor's rebuttal was to give the complete picture to a potential tenant up front as it wastes less time (realtor and tenant time) and people decide immediately if they have any interest. Surely I understand the realtor's time is valuable but dont do the thinking for the customer. Get them over to see it and fill out an application. The place has been so thoroughly renovated that seeing it is a powerful sales tactic in of itself. I disagree with sewing doubts about some trivial details so early in the sales pitch that they miss the opportunity to see it.

I'm already wondering how much information I am going to share with my realtor on future transactions. I want my agent to have my best interests at heart and make the sale, not scare people away. I'm not asking for dishonesty but IMO some facts are not the tenant's business or concern and could drive away business. There always exceptions. For instance if I learned that the tenant worked an overnight job and slept during the day, I would say that there might be some noise during daytime hours so there are no surprises.

Are my expectations unreal? Do my expectations feel like dishonesty to you guys? Am I justified in complaining about the sales tactic used?

 

[Humpy]

Yes, it seems that you are a dishonest person who is perfectly comfortable with obscuring details that may disappoint the customer in order to make a sale.

 

[NetWareHead]

Yes, it seems that you are a dishonest person who is perfectly comfortable with obscuring details that may disappoint the customer in order to make a sale.

Im not being dishonest. My issue is how the information is being presented and in what order. These are minor details that are surmountable. I'm flexible and want to work with people to make business happen but am being denied that opportunity.

Here is how I would have liked the conversation to go with the tenant with the treadmill.

Tenant: So I saw the place and like it. You have my submitted application. I read over the lease and noticed it mentioned the basement is prone to seepage. I want to put a treadmill down there. How much of a problem are we talking about?
Me: It seeps, not floods, so the floor gets wet. But I can give you some old flooring tiles to raise your treadmill half an inch from the floor and keep it from getting any wetness. Also, there is a particular area in the basement that I've never seen seep so you can put your treadmill over there. It doesnt have any outlet to power the treadmill but its easy to run one from the panel nearby. You can plug in a dehumidifier too. Does this alleviate your concerns?

 

[Humpy]

Im not being dishonest.

Oh. When you asked if it felt like dishonesty it made it seem like you weren't sure.

The issue is that you want to BS your way around the fact that the basement leaks and the first floor is under construction.

Professionals tend to want to skip the BS because they know lack of transparency comes back to bite them.

 

[NetWareHead]

Oh. When you asked if it felt like dishonesty it made it seem like you weren't sure.

The issue is that you want to BS your way around the fact that the basement leaks and the first floor is under construction.

Professionals tend to want to skip the BS because they know lack of transparency comes back to bite them.

Its noted in the lease that the basement leaks, which all potentials can read. That's my full disclosure.

My issue with first floor construction was that the realtor wanted to volunteer that information to any potentials, without them even asking. Why mention such a thing? Just say it is not for rent and move on. The status of the first floor is nobody else's business when we are discussing the second floor unit. If asked though, I'd answer truthfully.

Again, my issue is scaring people away with these unnecessary and otherwise surmountable details. You put your best foot forward when making a sales pitch not detract from the product. That's my point here.

 

[NutBucket]

If you don't like the realtor why bother paying for one? You can easily show/rent the place yourself.

 

[repoman0]

I've always wondered why landlords use realtors for renting out an apartment, at least around here (besides the case where your property is far away from your actual home). Coming from the renter side, where I live the tenant pays the realty fee (one month rent) and EVERYONE hates it. An apartment shown by the landlord rather than realty company will be on the top of most people's shopping list.

I understand that the normal situation is the landlord paying the realtor ...

 

[gorcorps]

OP is a shady SOB

Realtor sounds like they're the only ones that know what they're doing in this situation.

 

[NetWareHead]

I've always wondered why landlords use realtors for renting out an apartment, at least around here (besides the case where your property is far away from your actual home). Coming from the renter side, where I live the tenant pays the realty fee (one month rent) and EVERYONE hates it. An apartment shown by the landlord rather than realty company will be on the top of most people's shopping list.

I understand that the normal situation is the landlord paying the realtor ...

I work a full time job and cant market and show the property often. A realtor can do showings and even an open house if preferred.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

I just started a real estate class, I haven't covered the material yet but there is a whole section on ethics, state expectations for disclosure and potential legal problems of non compliance.

 

[Bitek]

Oh. When you asked if it felt like dishonesty it made it seem like you weren't sure.

The issue is that you want to BS your way around the fact that the basement leaks and the first floor is under construction.

Professionals tend to want to skip the BS because they know lack of transparency comes back to bite them.

Agreed.

This sounds shady and deceitful. Much better to be transparent about the situation.

It also sounds like you are downplaying the seriousness of the problems. Who wants to exercize in a wet, damp basement? Prop your stuff on old tiles? Yuk.

The realtor is probably right and not chase tenants who are an obvious bad match.

 

[Ns1]

the realtor seems to have a "full disclosure upfront" mindset, where you seem to have a "full disclosure right before signature" mindset. Neither one is inherently wrong, but it seems pretty clear that you two don't see eye to eye and you should find someone that does.

 

[mindless1]

The realtor is working for you. Don't hesitate to get someone else if they're not going to work with you to minimize the negativity of fully disclosing the issues, but from their perspective if they show people less desirable properties then those people may seek another realtor too.

I think you ought to get that basement seepage fixed if tenants are allowed access at all whether it be mortar patching, caulking, waterproof paint, grounds grading or gutter exhaust redirection so it flows away from the foundation.

Until that and the construction is completed, you might want to lower the rent so people are willing to put up with a bit for lower rent. That's only fair, why would someone pay the same if they're not getting the same environment?

Don't mess with people's sleep though, if there's construction during the day when they need to sleep then state it, not "there may be some noise". You want a tenant to fall in love with the place but they'll soon enough become disenchanted and start nitpicking about every little thing that isn't perfect because people get cranky without enough sleep. Remember that if something wasn't important to a prospective tenant then they wouldn't have asked.

 

[mizzou]

you dont want a tenant with buyers remorse. Its fine to tell them its under construction or that the basement is not appropriate for equipment.

if they know, they wont complain later
dont you want that as a landlord?

If u have decent living accomodations amd price, people will come

 

[NetWareHead]

I've always wondered why landlords use realtors for renting out an apartment, at least around here (besides the case where your property is far away from your actual home). Coming from the renter side, where I live the tenant pays the realty fee (one month rent) and EVERYONE hates it. An apartment shown by the landlord rather than realty company will be on the top of most people's shopping list.

I understand that the normal situation is the landlord paying the realtor ...

The normal situation is the LL paying the realtor but I happen to own a different unit in NJ and the opposite is true. The tenant eats the realtor cost of listing the unit instead of the LL. I dont know why it is normal but Im not exactly complaining. I find when the tenant absorbs this cost, they are less likely to do something that would result in eviction plus they tend to become longer term tenants. The fee to the realtor is 1 month. My current tenant is going on his 4th year in this aforementioned unit. Most of the LLs I know in NJ have no incentive to list units by themselves when they reap these benefits and market has shown that most serious tenants will pay it.

 

[NetWareHead]

The realtor is working for you. Don't hesitate to get someone else if they're not going to work with you to minimize the negativity of fully disclosing the issues, but from their perspective if they show people less desirable properties then those people may seek another realtor too.

I think you ought to get that basement seepage fixed if tenants are allowed access at all whether it be mortar patching, caulking, waterproof paint, grounds grading or gutter exhaust redirection so it flows away from the foundation.

Until that and the construction is completed, you might want to lower the rent so people are willing to put up with a bit for lower rent. That's only fair, why would someone pay the same if they're not getting the same environment?

Don't mess with people's sleep though, if there's construction during the day when they need to sleep then state it, not "there may be some noise". You want a tenant to fall in love with the place but they'll soon enough become disenchanted and start nitpicking about every little thing that isn't perfect because people get cranky without enough sleep. Remember that if something wasn't important to a prospective tenant then they wouldn't have asked.

The basement is just storage (vs habitable space) and Im going to treat it as such. There is no bang for the buck in fixing a minor issue in storage space. Its fieldstone walls so painting them is impossible from a sealing perspective. The other changes you propose are expensive (redirecting the gutters is the only doable exception). Im spending $$ on better/more amenities and on essentials like the roof, not on a basement that leaks intermittently in the rain, is only used for storage and where I cover myself in the lease by disclosing the seepage.

I had a nurse that worked the overnight shift who rented from me and I had no issue with coordinating repairs in the building with her. "You might want to sleep somewhere else for the next three days while my contractors is making noise." Unfortunate for her but I have no other options.

In the first floor unit, I need to install appliances, screw cabinets into walls, mount countertops, make final plumbing connections, final electric, paint and install floor/wall tile. I could see lowering the rent if it were major construction but for renovations I disagree.

 

[mindless1]

I had a nurse that worked the overnight shift who rented from me and I had no issue with coordinating repairs in the building with her. "You might want to sleep somewhere else for the next three days while my contractors is making noise." Unfortunate for her but I have no other options.

Since when is telling someone they need to go somewhere else to sleep for the next 3 days, "coordinating"? I hope you at least paid for her 3 days in a hotel or deducted it from rent. If not, you are missing my point that anything like this diminishes the value of the property, not "IF" you deem it to be some certain threshold, but rather any tenant doesn't want to put up with such things unless they get what they want in return. No landlord is perfect, but what is the point in getting someone out to a property if they clearly have issues with something based on asking about it? I know you wrote "fall in love" or something to that effect but an owner is going to feel that way a lot more than a tenant will.

Only you know how much the basement leaks. If it's a case of pooled water breeding mosquitoes or resulting in high mold or fungus levels, this may not be something that can be disclosed away with a mere statement that the basement has seepage. If there is mold and you have either a HVAC stack down there OR air returns from one, that's going to circulate mold throughout the building. You can mitigate that with a HEPA HVAC filter but be sure it seals well, as it's the result, not the attempt that matters.

Then again I may be overstating these issues and the noise and seepage is tolerable. That brings be back to my original statement that you shouldn't hesitate to get someone else if you feel it's to your advantage to do so, but it is entirely reasonable to mention a leaky basement or construction since these are things people may not have to put up with elsewhere.

It seems you are displeased that it's not rented yet. Could be that your rent needs to drop unless rental units are few and far in between in that area. Might want to make it month to month then raise rent to go longer term after the construction is finished and you have a better idea if you want the tenant to stay, but disclose that too. Few people want to have to move with a month's notice.

 

[NutBucket]

It's coordinating because landlords do not need to accommodate those with odd schedules. He was polite and let the tenant know to expect noise during normal work hours due to construction. I would be happy if my landlord cared enough to alert me of such things ahead of time. Besides, it isn't a common occurrence and who is to say the person that leases the downstairs unit won't be loud during the day? It's called the perils of living in a multi-unit dwelling.

 

[NetWareHead]

Since when is telling someone they need to go somewhere else to sleep for the next 3 days, "coordinating"? I hope you at least paid for her 3 days in a hotel or deducted it from rent. If not, you are missing my point that anything like this diminishes the value of the property, not "IF" you deem it to be some certain threshold, but rather any tenant doesn't want to put up with such things unless they get what they want in return.

Paid for her a room?? Do you know a carpenter or plumber that will agree to a job at 4 AM? Actually my plumber does 4 AM work at his emergency rate. I don't think she would pay that rate to accommodate her sleep schedule. My conversation with her was polite but firm. I always let her know in advance when there was work to be done. Anyway that's just a part of tenant life whether you work a normal or night schedule. A LL must do maintenance and has to obey noise ordinances. There is going to be noise. The LL might need to enter your unit when you are not home. All tenants put up with this. Me doing maintenance doesn't significantly disadvantage my property compared to other rentals. Those who cannot bear this are more suited to home ownership than renting IMO.

No landlord is perfect, but what is the point in getting someone out to a property if they clearly have issues with something based on asking about it? I know you wrote "fall in love" or something to that effect but an owner is going to feel that way a lot more than a tenant will.

I disagree. Tenants also can have strong emotions about a rental unit. That's the entire reason behind me carefully selecting the right amenities and renovating the way I do. Generate those good feelings when they enter. Make the unit sell itself.

Only you know how much the basement leaks. If it's a case of pooled water breeding mosquitoes or resulting in high mold or fungus levels, this may not be something that can be disclosed away with a mere statement that the basement has seepage. If there is mold and you have either a HVAC stack down there OR air returns from one, that's going to circulate mold throughout the building. You can mitigate that with a HEPA HVAC filter but be sure it seals well, as it's the result, not the attempt that matters.

Then again I may be overstating these issues and the noise and seepage is tolerable. That brings be back to my original statement that you shouldn't hesitate to get someone else if you feel it's to your advantage to do so, but it is entirely reasonable to mention a leaky basement or construction since these are things people may not have to put up with elsewhere.

It seems you are displeased that it's not rented yet. Could be that your rent needs to drop unless rental units are few and far in between in that area. Might want to make it month to month then raise rent to go longer term after the construction is finished and you have a better idea if you want the tenant to stay, but disclose that too. Few people want to have to move with a month's notice.

Yes just seepage and not running water. Enough to possibly damage stored goods but the bones of the house will be fine. Old house too so I'm sure the basement has leaked like this for the last 100 years. No forced air return down there either.

Again the point of this thread from the first post was to highlight the positives first and foremost and not have a realtor open house to talk about all the reasons why the apartment sucks! If the tenant asks the right questions I will answer honestly. Stuff they can't possibly know about until after move in like the seepage, I disclose at the right time (in the lease). This is really just a disagreement about the marketing strategy.

In any event, the place rented at my asking price and tenants are scheduled to occupy on Nov 1. In the interest of their comfort I'm trying to complete as much of the noisy first floor renovating beforehand. There will be some daytime noise after move in date. Im not trying to be an stubborn hard ass in my responses here but lowering the rent for some noise I might make is out of the question.

 

[mindless1]

Actually my plumber does 4 AM work at his emergency rate. I don't think she would pay that rate to accommodate her sleep schedule. My conversation with her was polite but firm.

A polite but firm conversation that she may not be able to sleep there for 3 days is not "coordination".

You may be within your rights, but I wouldn't want a landlord that takes this attitude. If you were interested in the comfort of your tenants then you would complete the renovation before renting it, and fix the leaky basement instead of equating it to not enough cost:benefit for you.

If it's a storage space where their property may get damaged then it should not be advertised as a storage space, period... and these are only the things you're willing to discuss in public. You don't need to manipulate people and twist words to rent a place. Some of it is salesmanship, but do not dismiss other people's concerns and assume that they're willing to put up with whatever benefits you the most. That is not a symbiotic relationship.

 

[NetWareHead]

There is nothing symbiotic about what you propose either. When is maintenance supposed to happen under these circumstances? The world doesn't stop to accommodate everyone working an overnight shift. Similarly, I work a full time day job and when I get home from the office, I'm not going to one of my apartment units at 10 PM to bang around with a hammer or run an air compressor. There is a proper time and place to do everything.

You can't ignore the fact there is not enough benefit in completely fixing the basement. I'm not getting that much more rent for offering basement storage and this little cash flow cannot support such an expenditure

I also offer the yard for tenants to use for a grill or store outdoor furniture and a driveway for car parking. I disclaim any responsibility in these two areas from theft or property damage. Should I not offer these areas unless I maybe fence the yard or put a gate on the driveway?

Finally, nobody is forcing my tenants to store stuff in the basement or in the yard or park a car in the driveway. Or sign my lease for that matter. They can park in the street, not use the yard or store their stuff in a facility. Or live somewhere else entirely. They know the risks, they know what I refuse responsibily for and like adults we can all do business with each other.

 

[mindless1]

^ Construction level renovation is not mere "maintenance". Certainly during daytime hours, once in a great while there might be something that needs fixed. In many years of home repairs I don't find there are many things that make a lot of noise to maintain, except mowing the lawn, Certainly not 3 days straight of enough noise to prevent someone from sleeping.

You are making arguments about "not getting that much more rent" which misses the point that if it is not safe place to store things then it should not be claimed to be storage at all. No matter how much you were to drop the rent, it's not suitable storage. However, not having as much suitable storage as a place with a dry basement, you may have a less valuable property than if you did, except being renovated could more than make up for that.

[sigh] This is getting nowhere. I don't need to convince you of anything nor you us, it's about what the tenant cares about that matters, but if you don't want our opinions then it would be easier not to ask. Yes your expectations seem a little dishonest, and oppressive to tenants with certain needs. With full disclosure you can better find tenants who don't have the same needs and not waste anyone's time. I would expect your competition to do the same so everyone's on a fair playing field, and on matter of principle would not rent from someone who had me drive out there without mentioning things like construction first. That's a big red flag of bad things to come, even if I were going to be away at work while it was going on.

 

[waffleironhead]

What the realtor is doing is the honest thing. What you are suggesting is the opposite.

 

[MixMasterTang]

So when you disclose the leaky basement in the lease, is it buried down in the fine print that quite a few people would more than likely skip over and not read, or is it apparent to everyone who reads the lease?

 

[NetWareHead]

So when you disclose the leaky basement in the lease, is it buried down in the fine print that quite a few people would more than likely skip over and not read, or is it apparent to everyone who reads the lease?

I cant answer for those who sign a lease after rushing and skipping through parts of it. It should be apparent to anybody who realizes the importance of signing a legally binding contract that the entire document should be read.

That said, there is no fine print. All font is the same size. Every page gets an initial from the tenant proving they read it.