Overrated celebrity Japanese game devs whats the deal?

[futurefields]

Guys like Shinji Mikami, Kojima and Suda51 get all this hype and press yet when was the last time these devs made consensus "great" or even "good" games. It seems like in the Western world we are a lot more skeptical and honest in how we deal with devs who fail to deliver good games, but in Japan a guy can make 5 awful games in a row and yet still be thought of as a game design "guru" when infact they really havent made anything impressive in the modern era...

 

[darkewaffle]

Who?

 

[Aikouka]

Who?

While some of their games have had PC releases, the people he's talking about are largely console developers. Shinji Mikami is the guy behind Resident Evil (currently working on a PS4-exclusive survival horror game called Bloodborne) and Suda51 make the weird games like Lollipop Chainsaw.

 

[Revolution 11]

Eh, even the most incompetent Japanese designers come up with more interesting games than American developers making games like Call of Duty.

My guess is that it is a quirk of Japanese business culture, which is extremely conservative (slow to change), consensus-based, and seniority-biased. That means corporate visions change very slowly, they only change when most of the company management agrees on the change, and the people in charge of the company are the oldest and most experienced employees.

It has its benefits and drawbacks.

 

[mmntech]

Hideo Kojima is overrated IMO. The Metal Gear games were pretty revolutionary when they first came out, but the series plays out like bad anime now. That's the problem with riding on one IP for so long.

Polyphony Digital is another Japanese dev that still gets high praise they don't deserve. Games like Forza, Project Cars, and Assetto Corsa make Gran Turismo look really dated by comparison.

 

[imaheadcase]

I don't really pay attention to who develops what game. I stopped caring about that after the 90s. Now every game dev jumps ship after a game ships to another company or starts another.

 

[futurefields]

Forgot Kojima too, and yes Gran Turismo is awful compared to Forza..

 

[Gunbuster]

I think the Japanese dev stars were in their element back when you had to ship a 100% working game and not rely on the push out what you have now, patch it later (or never) model. Japanese excruciating attention to detail was good for that. I don't think they can keep up these days.

 

[Skurge]

Polyphony Digital is another Japanese dev that still gets high praise they don't deserve. Games like Forza, Project Cars, and Assetto Corsa make Gran Turismo look really dated by comparison.

I will have to disagree here. I've played a lot of Forza, Gran Turismo is still the better game. The physics in Forza is not as good as GT. Project Cars is not finished so it isn't as good either. I only recently got Assetto Corsa so I don't know about that yet.

GT may have it's sound issues and AI issues, but it's Physics are worlds better than Forza. It helps when the chief dev is actually a race driver. Thats one of the reasons why GTR2 was so good.

 

[Jodell88]

While some of their games have had PC releases, the people he's talking about are largely console developers. Shinji Mikami is the guy behind Resident Evil (currently working on a PS4-exclusive survival horror game called Bloodborne) and Suda51 make the weird games like Lollipop Chainsaw.

It's Hidetaka Miyazaki that's working on Bloodborne.

 

[Dankk]

Shinji Mikami deserves the praise he gets, IMO. Just looking at his Wikipedia page, he's responsible for making a lot of great games. Vanquish, God Hand, Resident Evil 4 (and the RE games before that), Viewtiful Joe, Devil May Cry... I'm excited for his next horror game which is supposed to be a spiritual successor to RE4.

 

[futurefields]

Am i the only one who thinks RE4 is overrated? New camera angle, same tank style gameplay.

 

[AyashiKaibutsu]

Um, Gabe (can't count to 3?), John Carmack (when's the last time he made a really great game?), John Romero (given a ton of slack until he released a game so bad he imploded). The west has it's own set of people idiots line up to fellate.

 

[Aikouka]

It's Hidetaka Miyazaki that's working on Bloodborne.

You're right... I forgot that's by the Demon Souls guy not the Resident Evil guy. The amusing part is... I remember when Sony announced his name at their press conference, and I just furled my brow and said, "Who!?"

Japanese excruciating attention to detail was good for that. I don't think they can keep up these days.

I've been wondering if the high sense of pride in Japanese culture, which you could say fosters their obsession with "perfection", is what causes their absurd development times. The worst of the worst is probably Square-Enix with Final Fantasy. Final Fantasy XV (previously Final Fantasy Versus XIII) has been in the works since 2006. That's eight years. Final Fantasy VI went into development in 12/1992 and released in 4/1994 (in Japan). That's a year and a half for what most JRPG fans would argue is one of the best of the genre.

Now, I know that someone will inevitably point out that I'm talking about 2D game production, which does have less graphical work. I will certainly concede that point; however, to think that requires (at this point) five times the development time is just ludicrous.

 

[Anarchist420]

Shinji Mikami deserves the praise he gets, IMO. Just looking at his Wikipedia page, he's responsible for making a lot of great games. Vanquish, God Hand, Resident Evil 4 (and the RE games before that), Viewtiful Joe, Devil May Cry... I'm excited for his next horror game which is supposed to be a spiritual successor to RE4.

+1.

 

[It's Not Lupus]

Some of these Japanese developers take things into the wrong direction by making a 'game' into a linear interactive movie.

 

[Anteaus]

They are overrated in the same way Michael Bay is. In spite of the drop in quality, there are those that with continuous pump cash into their projects. How can the new transformers be so successful at the box office yet be considered critically to be garbage by any reasonable metric. I also think RE4 is overrated. It struck me as odd that some consider it to be the greatest of the franchise in addition being declared one of the most influential games of the 2000s. But then again, I think FFVII is half as good as the masses believe.

The bottom line, in Japan many of those developers are considered gods and move lots of product even if in the US the games are less thought of.

 

[Sulaco]

I will have to disagree here. I've played a lot of Forza, Gran Turismo is still the better game. The physics in Forza is not as good as GT. Project Cars is not finished so it isn't as good either. I only recently got Assetto Corsa so I don't know about that yet.

GT may have it's sound issues and AI issues, but it's Physics are worlds better than Forza. It helps when the chief dev is actually a race driver. Thats one of the reasons why GTR2 was so good.

Yes, the physics of running into a guard rail head on at 85mph, bouncing off undamaged with a dull thud sound, and carrying on while barely losing any momentum is just puts everything else to shame.

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

Hideo Kojima is overrated IMO. The Metal Gear games were pretty revolutionary when they first came out, but the series plays out like bad anime now. That's the problem with riding on one IP for so long.

Polyphony Digital is another Japanese dev that still gets high praise they don't deserve. Games like Forza, Project Cars, and Assetto Corsa make Gran Turismo look really dated by comparison.

Isn't the natural evolution of Metal Gear, now that we have the technology, to be an MMOFPS on PC where everyone controls a Metal Gear?

 

[Dumac]

Guys like Shinji Mikami, Kojima and Suda51 get all this hype and press yet when was the last time these devs made consensus "great" or even "good" games. It seems like in the Western world we are a lot more skeptical and honest in how we deal with devs who fail to deliver good games, but in Japan a guy can make 5 awful games in a row and yet still be thought of as a game design "guru" when infact they really havent made anything impressive in the modern era...

How is this any different than western devs? It is just like that with celebrity devs in general.

Although with the western world it is more often a studio than a single dev, we do get the occasional celebrity dev. Will Wright, Peter Molyneaux, Tim Schafer, John Carmack, David Cage, etc...

 

[mmntech]

Um, Gabe (can't count to 3?), John Carmack (when's the last time he made a really great game?), John Romero (given a ton of slack until he released a game so bad he imploded). The west has it's own set of people idiots line up to fellate.

Don't forget Phil Fish! He was approaching John McAfee level nuts at one point.

I'm tempted to add Ken Levine as well. Gabe not so much. Valve is probably the most influential force in PC gaming right now, even if they don't release many in house games anymore.

Some of these Japanese developers take things into the wrong direction by making a 'game' into a linear interactive movie.

I think that's true of most Japanese games. Even in more "open world" ones, there's usually an order in which they're supposed to be completed. You don't see a lot of Japanese games like Skyrim, where you can just wander around doing side quests for hours while ignoring the main story. I think it's a cultural thing. Japanese like linear but challenging games, while westerners like games that offer freedom but at their own pace.

 

[TheSlamma]

Couldn't make it making movies, so had to turn to video game stories.

Solid Snake and Deep Throat.. For The Puke.

 

[TheSlamma]

How is this any different than western devs? It is just like that with celebrity devs in general.

Although with the western world it is more often a studio than a single dev, we do get the occasional celebrity dev. Will Wright, Peter Molyneaux, Tim Schafer, John Carmack, David Cage, etc...

Carmack is respected for his programming skills, pushing computers to their limit and getting great framerates while doing it. These guys updated sprites and rehashed engines till we were all blue in the face.

 

[TestKing123]

Eh, even the most incompetent Japanese designers come up with more interesting games than American developers making games like Call of Duty.

My guess is that it is a quirk of Japanese business culture, which is extremely conservative (slow to change), consensus-based, and seniority-biased. That means corporate visions change very slowly, they only change when most of the company management agrees on the change, and the people in charge of the company are the oldest and most experienced employees.

It has its benefits and drawbacks.

American indie developers shit on Japanese high profile developers all day.

 

[Jodell88]

American indie developers shit on Japanese high profile developers all day.

Aww hell no!

While some indies are pretty darn good, your statement is outlandish.