Overkill for 1080P gaming?

[braveheart0707]

I've heard that the top end cards would be overkill if i am only gonna be doing 1080p gaming, is that true?

if so, what models would be overkills? 780? 770? or even 7970?

 

[UaVaj]

to further clarify this recommendation

desire resolution = 1920x1080
desire game = no mention (so presume most game with a few exceptions)
desire iq = no mention (so presume max setting)
desire fps = no mention (so presume enjoyable fps (~45fps))
desire 3d = no mention (so presume 2D)
desire panel = no mention (so presume 60hz)
cpu = no mention (so presume no bottleneck)

given these pre assumption. gtx 580 or 7870 equivalent is what is needed.

the scaling (based on desire resolution, desire game, desire iq, desired fps, desired 3D, desired panel) can continue on and on - until quad titan sli becomes insufficient.

---

since this is anand tech forum - overkill is always welcome.

best value is 7950 for $180 after MIR.

 

[arredondo]

^^^ Eh, I hear that response often and think it is an incomplete observation. 1080P still has a ton of visuals left in it when it comes to 3D modeled gaming visuals that are simply not yet exploited due to low penetration of super powerful hardware.

For instance, if you have a 1080P display, first select each of the following pictures' link, hit F11 on your keyboard (full screen toggle), then hit 'Download' (hit F11 again to exit):


- Can a current western RPG game look like this 1080P image with all the global illumination and physic features turned on at a locked 60fps or more?


- How about slaying trolls and orcs in a game rendering this setting with the same features listed above?


- Or maybe play an open world title in a game city that is this detailed and fully populated from distance and up close?


So I say, if you have the money there is no GPU that is overkill for 1080P. You just have to be patient for game makers to catch up, or get into heavy modding to at least get closer to these types of visuals.

 

[bystander36]

^^^ Eh, I hear that response often and think it is an incomplete observation. 1080P still has a ton of visuals left in it when it comes to 3D modeled gaming visuals that are simply not yet exploited due to low penetration of super powerful hardware.

For instance, if you have a 1080P display, hit F11 on your keyboard (full screen toggle), select each of the following pictures and hit 'View Image':



- Can a current western RPG game look like this 1080P image with all the global illumination and physic features turned on at a locked 60fps or more?

- How about slaying trolls and orcs in a game rendering this setting with the same features listed above?

- Or maybe play an open world title in a game city that is this detailed and fully populated from distance and up close?

So I say, if you have the money there is no GPU that is overkill for 1080P. You just have to be patient for game makers to catch up, or get into heavy modding to at least get closer to these types of visuals.

Does it matter if it is possible to have higher IQ than dev's give us? Sure, but that doesn't mean that there is hardware that will not be pushed at low resolutions. If the games don't currently have settings to make use of hardware, that hardware is overkill.

That said, a 7870 is not likely to "max out" 98% of all games at 60hz, assuming you want 60 FPS to go with it. People often use "maxed out" to describe almost maxed out a lot. They always fail to mention the lack of AA, a notch lower shadow setting, or a lack of DoF or what ever.

As long as you just want good settings, then a 7870 may be the card, but not to "max out" games.

 

[Screech]

best value is 7950 for $180 after MIR.

indeed; right now on newegg you can find some 7950s for ~$185-190(after rebate) + 3 free games which is a damn good deal (well, assuming you actually want any of the games, but even if you don't.....not too bad).

 

[braveheart0707]

so seems like 7950 or 7870 is debatable

so i assume 7970 and above would be enough then? so like gtx 770 is like....for sure?

 

[psurg]

+1 for 7950

 

[Vesku]

Right now the 7950 is king of value for 1080P @ ~$200. Similar to if a new in box GTX 570 was $200 while those generation of GPUs were still in their prime.

 

[toyota]

as usual no one has asked about the rest of the pc. overkill is just fine if you have the system to actually push it.

 

[Tweak155]

^^^ Eh, I hear that response often and think it is an incomplete observation. 1080P still has a ton of visuals left in it when it comes to 3D modeled gaming visuals that are simply not yet exploited due to low penetration of super powerful hardware.

For instance, if you have a 1080P display, first select each of the following pictures' link, hit F11 on your keyboard (full screen toggle), then hit 'Download' (hit F11 again to exit):


- Can a current western RPG game look like this 1080P image with all the global illumination and physic features turned on at a locked 60fps or more?


- How about slaying trolls and orcs in a game rendering this setting with the same features listed above?


- Or maybe play an open world title in a game city that is this detailed and fully populated from distance and up close?


So I say, if you have the money there is no GPU that is overkill for 1080P. You just have to be patient for game makers to catch up, or get into heavy modding to at least get closer to these types of visuals.

Thanks, that first link is now my background

 

[braveheart0707]

as usual no one has asked about the rest of the pc. overkill is just fine if you have the system to actually push it.

currently planned:
Cpu: either i5 4670k or i7 4770k, haven't decided (D14 or 212 evo cooling, haven't decided)
ram: Gskill ripjaw 1600MHZ 1.5V 8G
mobo: Asus z87-A or Z87-Pro
PSU: 1000W (re-using from my current pc)
Case: Fractal define R4
what else.......

any comments on the build is welcome.

 

[Pseudoics]

Overkill would be any GPU setup that puts the burden on the CPU being the bottleneck, which is game and resolution dependent. For example I upgraded to a GTX760 in my old Q9550 system. In Assassin's Creed 3 @1080p it made almost no difference what so ever over a GTX480, even between 'maxed' and lowest settings. That CPU just couldn't handle such a poorly optimised and modern game; many games of the last year in fact were very tough on it. So in this case, even a 760 was overkill because the system was deficient elsewhere.

With the latest CPUs at good overclocks, it's going to take a lot more than a single 780 to be overkill at 1080p for most games (maxxed), especially going forward.

PS You NEED a high-end cooler to OC haswell unless you get an exceptionally lucky chip. Also consider the less monstrous NH-U14S which is fantastic if you're going with air.

 

[braveheart0707]

Overkill would be any GPU setup that puts the burden on the CPU being the bottleneck, which is game and resolution dependent. For example I upgraded to a GTX760 in my old Q9550 system. In Assassin's Creed 3 @1080p it made almost no difference what so ever over a GTX480, even between 'maxed' and lowest settings. That CPU just couldn't handle such a poorly optimised and modern game; many games of the last year in fact were very tough on it. So in this case, even a 760 was overkill because the system was deficient elsewhere.

With the latest CPUs at good overclocks, it's going to take a lot more than a single 780 to be overkill at 1080p for most games (maxxed), especially going forward.

PS You NEED a high-end cooler to OC haswell unless you get an exceptionally lucky chip. Also consider the less monstrous NH-U14S which is fantastic if you're going with air.

oh U14S? interesting, i too fear the monstrous D14, and was thinking about the 212 evo, but the U14 is definitely a good size too. How is it compared to the evo?

 

[3DVagabond]

so seems like 7950 or 7870 is debatable

so i assume 7970 and above would be enough then? so like gtx 770 is like....for sure?

GTX 770 is > 2* the price of the 7950. Not worth it by a long stretch.

currently planned:
Cpu: either i5 4670k or i7 4770k, haven't decided (D14 or 212 evo cooling, haven't decided)
ram: Gskill ripjaw 1600MHZ 1.5V 8G
mobo: Asus z87-A or Z87-Pro
PSU: 1000W (re-using from my current pc)
Case: Fractal define R4
what else.......

any comments on the build is welcome.

Since you are buying a "K" processor, I assume you O/C? If so the difference in performance between an O/C'd 7950 and an O/C'd 770 would be indistinguishable. Except for the odd outlier game that just prefers one brands arch over the other you'd be playing at the same settings within a couple of percent of each other in FPS.

 

[MBrown]

I vote 7950. I have almost the exact same system you are planning on getting and it runs great at 1080p. I will say that if you want to play games "maxed out" at a constant 60fps then a 7950 is not overkill. I still can't max out many games with my set up. Crysis 2 and 3 are just a couple that I can't max out.

 

[toyota]

I vote 7950. I have almost the exact same system you are planning on getting and it runs great at 1080p. I will say that if you want to play games "maxed out" at a constant 60fps then a 7950 is not overkill. I still can't max out many games with my set up. Crysis 2 and 3 are just a couple that I can't max out.

cant max out many games with your oced 7950? lol what? maybe you just trying to run too much AA so simply turn that down. and if you cant run Crysis 2 on max then something is wrong with your system as you should get about 60 fps in that game.

EDIT: just played Crysis 2 for about 5 minutes on full DX 11 Ultra with high res textures on my gtx660ti which should be a little slower than your 7950 at the speeds you have.

Min, Max, Avg
52, 77, 61.662

 

[MBrown]

cant max out many games with your oced 7950? lol what? maybe you just trying to run too much AA so simply turn that down. and if you cant run Crysis 2 on max then something is wrong with your system as you should get about 60 fps in that game.

EDIT: just played Crysis 2 for about 5 minutes on full DX 11 Ultra with high res textures on my gtx660ti which should be a little slower than your 7950 at the speeds you have.

Min, Max, Avg
52, 77, 61.662

I don't call it maxed out if everything is not maxed out including aa. Nothing is wrong with my system as I have the the same benchmarks numbers as everyone else with my system.

In bf3 I have everything at ultra but have 4x msaa and no post aa at 1080p with vsync at a constant 60fps. I don't consider that maxed out because I'd I use the ultra preset in bf3 my fps will drop into the low 50s in some spots. Maybe my standards are too high?

 

[toyota]

I don't call it maxed out if everything is not maxed out including aa. Nothing is wrong with my system as I have the the same benchmarks numbers as everyone else with my system.

In bf3 I have everything at ultra but have 4x msaa and no post aa at 1080p with vsync at a constant 60fps. I don't consider that maxed out because I'd I use the ultra preset in bf3 my fps will drop into the low 50s in some spots. Maybe my standards are too high?

yeah but common sense dictates lowering a setting or 2 when actually playing unless people just want to be stubborn. sometimes there is no visual difference but the game will run much better.

and again I just showed you my bench with a slower card than yours so i would think you would stay above 60 fps for 95% of Crysis 2 on max settings.

 

[MBrown]

yeah but common sense dictates lowering a setting or 2 when actually playing unless people just want to be stubborn. sometimes there is no visual difference but the game will run much better.

and again I just showed you my bench with a slower card than yours so i would think you would stay above 60 fps for 95% of Crysis 2 on max settings.

I understand as I usually don't have everything turned up for that reason I don't remember what I had crysis 2 at. I'll check later.

 

[lehtv]

+1 to 7950, best bang for buck card out there for high quality 1080p gaming. But depending on the overall budget of the system, it may be worth it to get a 7970, or maybe even a 290.

 

[BrightCandle]

It completely depends on the game. Arma 3 for example certainly can't be maxed out on 2x 680's, it needs more like 2x 780's at 1080p before its really maintaining decent performance. The Crysis series of games and Metro also heavily utilise more resources such that higher graphics options are available than a single card can provide at 1080p. PC graphics are a continuous spectrum and you choose to buy at a particular point which sometimes gets you top settings and sometimes gets you medium or you have to trade off frame rate. Its just much more complicated than X card maxes out everything.

 

[Pseudoics]

oh U14S? interesting, i too fear the monstrous D14, and was thinking about the 212 evo, but the U14 is definitely a good size too. How is it compared to the evo?

Can only speak from my time with the U14S so far. From benches across the net it seems only a couple degrees difference from the D14. At half the size and with the newer fan design, it's great. The 212 is okay for the price but doesn't compare to the Noctua in cooling or acoustics (silence!).

 

[Pseudoics]

Adding to the OP: I have a similar spec to your target PC (4770K @ 4.8GHz) with a heavily clocked GTX760. I also game mainly on a 1080P Plasma TV. I can run all games with highest settings but few are a constant 60fps. Crysis 3 and Arma 3 are worst performing enough that I'll consider a second 760 when prices drop, so i'm ready for next-gen-only titles coming soon. MSAA makes a huge difference in IQ for me on a big screen so it's a must.

You're unlikely to feel overkill with any GPU you choose. I think underkill is a worse fate.

 

[wand3r3r]

You're unlikely to feel overkill with any GPU you choose. I think underkill is a worse fate.

The only thing that can be overkill is the price. You can never have to much GPU imo.

 

[PrincessFrosty]

For the vast majority of games today in max settings at 1920x1080 at ~45fps something like a 580 is a good choice, anything else starts to become overkill.

However we're approaching the Xbone and PS4 launches which are going to dramatically increase the quality of graphics used in future PC AAA games, so for future proofing you might want to consider something a bit faster. Titles like Thief and Watch Dogs have been confirmed to have quite high system requirements, if you want to play those games in all their glory you'll likely need GTX780 level hardware, although they'll no doubt look very good in medium-high settings.