Overclocking for a New user to Overclocking?

[TVisitor]

So I'm working on specing out my new system, and I thought I decided upon a E6700.

In another forum, someone told me that I should just get the E600 as it can overclock just as well and is cheaper.

I also wondered if the "Extreme" version was worth it and they said "waste of money".

I tend to realize, after reading, that the users here (vs. the other forum I was in) know *much* more about systems.

I've been building a long time, but the dual cores & overclocking are brand new to me.

I also realized that it seems to be worth it to wait until the end of July, as there will be big price breaks.

So let's say you were willing to spend about $500 on a processor (a little more is fine, if there is something "earth shattering" for a small price bump).

If you were going to buy *now*, and if you were going to buy after the price cuts and introductions of the new 1333 FSB parts (the xx50's) what would you get given that budget?

(This will be in a P5K3 motherboard, FYI).

My feeling is I'd like to keep this system for several years. My current system - P4 3GHz - was built about 4 years ago. It's been great, but is showing it's age. My only upgrade to it was going to a BFG6800OC video card when they first came out.

Thanks!

H.

(PS: Where can I get a good primer on OC... all the terminology about stepping sizes, multipliers, about voltage increases, stability, how to test stability, etc.?)

 

[MarcVenice]

Don't get the e6700, it is indeed a waste of money. Get the e6750 instead if you can wait till 22nd of july, which I'm sure you can if you managed 4 years with your current rig allready. For 500$ you could get a qaudcore too though. They say the q6600 will go for 266$ give or take. Could go for a higher clocked one. Especially if you wanna keep the rig for four years, you should get a qaudcore. But you should also read this, I dont know if I agree with him, but let's say he is really knowledgable, and I admit I don't know to much about penryn, then you might want to follow his advice. Although atm you're P4 is really getting slow.

Here is a thread where you could learn a thing or two. A lot of terms are pretty easy to figure out, but if you really don't get it, I'd say google them, or ask about them here. I might be in the mood to answer

Why do you need that really expensive motherboard though ? For the Wi-Fi or what ? DDR3 ? There's cheaper mobo's. Dont get me wrong, it's a good mobo, albeit a bit expensive. I don't like expensive

 

[TVisitor]

Originally posted by: MarcVenice
Don't get the e6700, it is indeed a waste of money. Get the e6750 instead if you can wait till 22nd of july, which I'm sure you can if you managed 4 years with your current rig allready. For 500$ you could get a qaudcore too though. They say the q6600 will go for 266$ give or take. Could go for a higher clocked one. Especially if you wanna keep the rig for four years, you should get a qaudcore.

That's what I was thinking too... I definitely can wait, it's not a big deal. Been starting to think about some other interesting things to play with, like watercooling (I always like to learn something when building a new PC, and WC is definitely new to me). I'll read the thread you suggested and if questions, I always usually google first. However, I figured it was worth asking about the topic broadly in here first to get some good answers before delving into the google sea

What's a good Quadcore option, assuming I wait till the 22nd? (Still the Q6600, or something else?)

Why do you need that really expensive motherboard though ? For the Wi-Fi or what ? DDR3 ? There's cheaper mobo's. Dont get me wrong, it's a good mobo, albeit a bit expensive. I don't like expensive

Not for the WiFi, but I would like to play with the DDR3 as well. I don't mind the "expensive" aspect as I have several years between builds and fortunately a good job that let's be able to play like this (though with Pinball as another hobby, that's a money sucker too *laughs*) I'd also like the new P35 Chipset, and ASUS has proven itself to be a great brand for me (my past few builds have all been ASUS).

 

[MarcVenice]

Asus is good, their website was very very bad for some time though, was sluggish as hell, like back in the dial up or bbs days. As for the qaudcore, well, imo the q6600 is clocked rather slow. It will result in a LOT of apps running faster on a oc-ed e6750 coz it's clocked higher, because not many things, YET, can use 4 cores. Depending on what the Q6700 and the Intel Core 2 Extreme QX6800 do, you could go for one of those, at 2.66 or 2.93ghz.

But, if you wanna play around with WC, I think, but don't qoute me on it, you're best of with a q6700 at 2.66ghz, then OC it with watercooling, and you'll probably be able to hit 3.4-3.6ghz. The QX6800 costs 1k right now, I don't think it will drop to 500$, nor do I think it's worth it compared to the q6700 which WILL drop below 500$. Or get a q6600 for 266$, drop it in, oc it, wait till december for penryn, and do your thing

As for DDR3, I dunno man, people aren't to happy about ddr3 right now, the timings SUCK. Imo you're better of getting some ddr8500 or so, oc-able to 1200mhz or higher. More fun too, still pretty expensive, and hardcore

Btw, what about graphic cards ? If I would have money to spend, I'd go for a dual screen setup and sli-ed gtx's or ati 2900xt's in crossfire Also, with such speed, a 150gb 10k raptor is a must.

 

[TVisitor]

Just curious when it comes to the cores - what really makes a lot of your apps run faster, even if they're not written to take advantage of more than one core? Is it that much of Windows is running on one core, and apps on another?

Oh yes - Video Card: Probably will do a single 8800GTX.

 

[Pwntcomputer]

Originally posted by: TVisitor
Just curious when it comes to the cores - what really makes a lot of your apps run faster, even if they're not written to take advantage of more than one core? Is it that much of Windows is running on one core, and apps on another?

Oh yes - Video Card: Probably will do a single 8800GTX.

Single apps must be multi-threaded in order to take advantage of multiple cores. There are a few every-day user programs that take advantage of two core and very few that take advantage of four.

That being said, it sound like you keep your rigs for some time and many software programmers are starting to think multi-thread in order to take advantage of multiple cores.

Where multiple cores does help is when multitasking. Say you want to play a game, download music and listen to WMP all at the same time. That is where you will notice the advantages of a multi-core set-up.

I tend to agree with everyone one here.

1. Wait until the price cuts in July. You've waited this long.

2. Go Dual core as the current Q-cores running extremely hot at lower clocks than their dual brethren. The new 45nm Quads will be a force to be reckoned with in late Q4 07. Where I disagree is in the processor. Many OC'd e4300 are matching or coming close to E6700s for FAR less money.

3. Make sure you get a intel P35 board. I believe it's a new North Bridge and they offer guaranteed compatibility with the upcoming 45nm Penryn and higher default FSB.

4. I was ALWAYS afraid to OC my rig for similar reasons. I care about longevity and reliability rather than an incremental speed increase.
- Truth of the matter is that a mild OC with no change in voltages should affect longevity by much if at all as long as your cooling is sufficient. Though OCing may sound complicated at first, it's actually EXTREMELY easy. Just remember to Isolate and consolidate. Meaning, find the limits of each individual part independent from the rest of your system. Read about OCing at www.diy-street.com.

DFI makes GREAT mobos and they support and tutorials are second to none.

 

[f4phantom2500]

i think the q6600 will be the only quad core that's even worth it (after the price drop) since the others are so much more expensive and most apps will be fine with a dual core, plus they overclock a lot better.

with that in mind, i think it'd be best to get an e4300 or e4400 as they're so cheap and oc very well (some say the 'good' e4x00 chips end up in e4400's so the newer e4300's don't oc as well as the old ones, of course it'll still oc pretty well) and that you should wait until quad cores that oc well come out and get one with a 1066 or 800mhz fsb. in my experience it's not best to get a chip with the highest fsb that the board officially supports if you're intending to overclock, especially since you can run slower ram at a given oc since the fsb will be lower.

 

[orion23]

Well, you are very well informed about the new tech and the upcoming price cuts / lineup

I'd say wait for the $266 Quad processor in July.

Get any P35 board you like.

Gigabyte P35 DQ6 DDR2 seems to be the favorite.

Asus P5K Deluxe DDR2 follows it.

If you really want DDR3, then the Asus P5K3 is a great board as well.

I personally would go with a cheaper E6600, the P5K deluxe DDR2 with 2X1GB (you can get some of the best RAM for only $130), a thermalright ultra / xtreme 120 AIR cooler (Water can be messy / loud / and dangerous in case of leaks).

The $266 Quad will be old when the Penryns come out in a few months along with the new X38 chipset.

Truth is, the upgrading game doesn't stop. To me, it really sucks when I buy the latest and 3 or 6 months down the road, tables turn and newer, better is out again.

Don't choose from the top right now, and later you can swith your CPU / mobo with better ones.

 

[MarcVenice]

If you got money to spend f4p, like he said he does, then don't get a e4x00, but a e6420 instead, at the very least. And no-one suggested a e6700, a e6750 is what was suggested A e6400 is a gauranteed 3ghz + overclock, a e4x00 series isn't. Besides that, everything pretty much lines up.

 

[TVisitor]

Will probably stick with a Dual Core at this point - since not much takes advantage of even Dual, I could save a bit of money and when things start to heat up (haha, no pun intended) and really start making use of multicore, I could upgrade. Course by that time it will be time for a new mobo and such Really had debated waiting for X38, but... at this point, I think it's worth waiting for the price cut and be done with it. Now the big question, get a XX00 or XX50...? Is the 1333 FSB over the 1066 going to make that much of a difference?

 

[f4phantom2500]

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: MarcVenice
If you got money to spend f4p, like he said he does, then don't get a e4x00, but a e6420 instead, at the very least. And no-one suggested a e6700, a e6750 is what was suggested A e6400 is a gauranteed 3ghz + overclock, a e4x00 series isn't. Besides that, everything pretty much lines up.</end quote></div>

yeah but is it really worth the extra overclock? not to me. i mean if it's just a temp processor until the 45nm quads come out then why spend that extra money for a slightly faster chip? still, even if an e4x00 "only" hit 2.8ghz it would be super fast. especially if he's just going to go with a q6600 when the price drops, i mean that's only a couple weeks away.

regardless, he should wait for the price cuts.

 

[MarcVenice]

He's not gonna be happy if he gets his cpu only 400mhz above a e6600 or whatever, at least, I wouldn't be

 

[f4phantom2500]

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: MarcVenice
He's not gonna be happy if he gets his cpu only 400mhz above a e6600 or whatever, at least, I wouldn't be </end quote></div>

i would, hell it would kill my 2.85ghz brisbane. i mean, he's coming from a 3ghz p4. a 2.8ghz c2d would be a HUGE upgrade for him. and then when he goes and gets a quad later, it will be another huge leap. if he gets a more expensive c2d now and it oc's better, when he jumps to quad the difference between his c2d and his c2q wouldn't be as much, but the jump from his p4 to his c2d would have been even bigger. i think it's better to save some cash and distribute the astonishment with how much faster his new stuff is over 2 upgrades more equally . it's more satisfying when you spend a little bit and get a HUGE step up than when you spend a lot and get a good step up.

 

[MarcVenice]

Hes been with his rig for 4 years. He's gonna be satisfied real easy when I think of it, so he SHOULD go e6420, OC it like hell, and then hes gonna be satisfied, and not upgrade at all. But he wuold also be satisfied with the e4300 at 2.8ghz, and then hes stuck with a 'slow' c2d as far as it can be slow, and not upgrade either You following me ?

 

[kenny0813]

wait until july 22nd, then depending on your demands, get the e6750 (1333 FSB) or q6600 (if you feel like having 4 cores and a really hot cpu =P)

 

[Konadreamer]

Well, in the end....you could get a cheap e4300 and easily get to 3.2 Ghz (8 x 400Mhz)= 1600Mhz FSB. That is exactly what I did....well, I got the e4400 since I didn't know how much FSB I could push and I definitely wanted to get to 3.0 Ghz---did that on stock voltages and just set the bus to 300Mhz (stock 10x multiplier). See the specs in my tagline. Getting the 6420 or quad core is just a waste of money and you really will not see much of a difference the L2 cache of 4mb. Then, when Penyrn comes out + 6 mos., getting a Kentsfield core will be that much cheaper. The reality of it all is that the GPU is the bottleneck on most systems (gaming-wise) and a C2D will still be viable in a couple of years. Software is usually 2-3 years behind the hardware reqs. so that there will be a market for it now, since most people's computers are in that age range. I just went from an oc'd Athlon XP to my current rig to be able to play BF2, FEAR, C & C3, HL2 all at high settings. Unlike my old Athlon XP build (AGP graphics), I have a clear upgrade path that will not require me to do anything more than drop in a new CPU or video card. DDR3 is not going to be anywhere near worth the price for at least another year, and by then there will be a new chipset out for the next generation of cpus, so going with a DDR2 board is quite sensible. Good Luck!