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Overclocking AM1 platform - Linux versus Windows 10

VirtualLarry

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
One thing is for certain, Windows 10 is FAR more tolerant of overclocking on this platform / board than Linux Mint 18 Mate 64-bit is.

I've successfully overclocked my AMD Sempron 3850 (1.3Ghz AM1 quad-core), to 1.605Ghz (122 BCLK), on an ASRock AM1 ITX board (the one with the extra two SATA6G ports on the third-party controller, but not the external DC power input).

I've had to switch the primary SATA ports to IDE mode to accomplish this.

I noticed, when I first started OCing AM1, that attempting to boot Linux off of a DVD would fail with "unable to load root FS" or something like that in the bootloader, if I tweak BCLK to 106 or above.

Well, the ASRock 1.6 BIOS for this board actually has some presets for this CPU, for 1.5GHz and 1.6Ghz. Of course, attempting to use one of those presets also requires one to manually set primary DRAM timings, and memfreq.

But the long and the short of it is, I can even fresh install Win10 64-bit Home off of a USB stick, WHILE the system is overclocked to 122 BLCK, AND I can burn DVDs at that BLCK too, successfully.

But Linux? Gotta remove the overclock, in order to even boot. I tried removing the OC, installing off of a USB stick, onto the 60GB SATA6G SSD, in IDE mode, and then setting the OC to 122 (and even 110) BLCK, but Linux still won't even load off of the internal SSD.

So my final analysis is, Linux FAIL, Windows 10 for the win.

Because this relatively slow AM1 platform really need a "jolt" of OC to make it acceptable in performance.
 
I would never touch overclocking on a locked platform like AM1. Given that base frequency is tied to everything, you're sacrificing stability of everything not just the cpu.

Not exactly something i could live on a daily basis.
 
hojnikb said:
I would never touch overclocking on a locked platform like AM1. Given that base frequency is tied to everything, you're sacrificing stability of everything not just the cpu.

Not exactly something i could live on a daily basis.
Click to expand...

Well, ASRock provides pre-sets. I don't think that they would do that if it weren't at least somewhat stable and a viable option. Sure, if you want to be absolutely sure, don't do it. But AM1 is SO SLOW, that it's hard to stomach not overclocking it.

Edit: And NVidia chipset platforms, in the 775 era, had "NV Boost" - they would overclock the PCI-E interface for their NV-chipset video cards automagically to 125Mhz. So PCI-E is known to be stable up to 125.
 
VirtualLarry said:
But AM1 is SO SLOW, that it's hard to stomach not overclocking it.
Click to expand...

Why buy something which is unacceptably way too slow for your purposes, in the first place ?

It's nice to save money, get a smaller system, that uses less electricity and produces less heat. But if it does not work for your purposes (too slow), just buy something faster/better.

If you are overclocking it for fun, then fine . . .

But if you really want something that you can use, then just because Linux stops working, it is already a nuisance, as it forces you to use Windows 10 with its own problems, or some other OS like win 7.

Can you trust a system which is failing to work in Linux, due to the overclocking. Maybe there is silent data corruption and it will cause all sorts of problems, later.
 
VirtualLarry said:
Because this relatively slow AM1 platform really need a "jolt" of OC to make it acceptable in performance.
Click to expand...

The Sempron 3850 is not the only AM1 APU, your overclock is just the level of the Athlon 5150, otherwise starting with a 5350 it would have yielded twice the 3850 stock perf, indeed i have trouble understanding why you re stuck with this SKU given the other offerings.
 
Abwx said:
The Sempron 3850 is not the only AM1 APU, your overclock is just the level of the Athlon 5150, otherwise starting with a 5350 it would have yielded twice the 3850 stock perf, indeed i have trouble understanding why you re stuck with this SKU given the other offerings.
Click to expand...

Because I got a bunch of them from NeweggFlash for $19.99 FS ea. Which was significantly cheaper than list, or a 5350. I consider the 5350 to be way overpriced. You can get faster FM1 quad-cores for the same price.

And I don't feel like investing MORE money into these AM1 hunk-o-junks.
 
Abwx said:
The Sempron 3850 is not the only AM1 APU, your overclock is just the level of the Athlon 5150, otherwise starting with a 5350 it would have yielded twice the 3850 stock perf, indeed i have trouble understanding why you re stuck with this SKU given the other offerings.
Click to expand...

I've also had great difficulty understanding why someone would do this.

I guess their brain, is wired up differently, so that, instead of realizing that the Sempron 3850 is terribly slow, all they can see/understand is they save some $'s in a sale, and think GREAT, let's buy it.

When in fact they have wasted lots of money, buying a part (cpu), which is TOO slow for their purposes.

They even seem to think their overclocking is WORKING, when because Linux fails to work, their overclock has actually NOT worked.

I guess the human brain is a very complicated thing, and can be difficult to understand.
 
VirtualLarry said:
Because I got a bunch of them from NeweggFlash for $19.99 FS ea. Which was significantly cheaper than list, or a 5350. I consider the 5350 to be way overpriced. You can get faster FM1 quad-cores for the same price.

And I don't feel like investing MORE money into these AM1 hunk-o-junks.
Click to expand...

In Europe we can order from Germany for instance, the 3850 is at 23€ and the 5350 at 36€, must be close in the US, if that s what you call more money well, that s 50% pricier for what, 57% higher perf...

SOFTengCOMPelec said:
I've also had great difficulty understanding why someone would do this.

I guess their brain, is wired up differently, so that, instead of realizing that the Sempron 3850 is terribly slow, all they can see/understand is they save some $'s in a sale, and think GREAT, let's buy it.

When in fact they have wasted lots of money, buying a part (cpu), which is TOO slow for their purposes.

They even seem to think their overclocking is WORKING, when because Linux fails to work, their overclock has actually NOT worked.

I guess the human brain is a very complicated thing, and can be difficult to understand.
Click to expand...

I have such a set up here, at 2.05GHz and its efficient SATA interface it works well, 10$/€ is peanuts in the plateform total cost given that there s 57% better perfs with a 5350.

Besides with his overclocking he would be at 2.5GHz, so using the lower clocked SKU is just a waste of effort.
 
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Abwx said:
In Europe we can order from Germany for instance, the 3850 is at 23€ and the 5350 at 36€, must be close in the US, if that s what you call more money well, that s 50% pricier for what, 57% higher perf...
Click to expand...

I suppose if a person thinks that the computer system, is terrible anyway, and they don't like it, and they just want it to work a bit better, but NOT spend any money on it, as it is too unimportant, to them.

Maybe it makes some sense. Getting a really cheapo cpu. Then ...

Overclocking is a $0 way, of eeking out a bit more performance or more.

So maybe I do understand now.
 
SOFTengCOMPelec said:
They even seem to think their overclocking is WORKING, when because Linux fails to work, their overclock has actually NOT worked.
Click to expand...
When I can install an entire OS, use it just fine, burn DVDs, boot it, etc., WITH an overclock, then the issue is NOT the overclock.

Linux falls over for many reasons.

The point at which Linux falls over, seems to be around the same BCLK as Windows 10 falls over, with AHCI enabled.

I'm starting to wonder, if, Linux actually re-programs the SATA controller from what the BIOS sets it to, and is trying to run in AHCI mode, even though I've set the BIOS to boot in IDE mode. To me, this seems like "bad behavior".
 
VirtualLarry said:
When I can install an entire OS, use it just fine, burn DVDs, boot it, etc., WITH an overclock, then the issue is NOT the overclock.

Linux falls over for many reasons.

The point at which Linux falls over, seems to be around the same BCLK as Windows 10 falls over, with AHCI enabled.

I'm starting to wonder, if, Linux actually re-programs the SATA controller from what the BIOS sets it to, and is trying to run in AHCI mode, even though I've set the BIOS to boot in IDE mode. To me, this seems like "bad behavior".
Click to expand...

As regards the "ignoring the bios setting", I have experienced the same concept, many years ago (but I guess it still applies).
When Linux was partially ignoring the bios settings and just doing its own thing, with the hard disks.

At the end of the day, it depends on if you want the overclock to have 100% of the functionality of the normally clocked cpu.
Or if you are happy to have some slight (depending on how important Linux is to you), issues, but it basically works.

In the past (very long time ago), I think I've accepted once or twice a week crashes, due to overclocking, on a mainly gaming machine. Since it is not necessarily the end of the world, while gaming and saves a large amount of money and/or the higher speeds CAN'T be achieved with standard cpus.

In the old days, I remember Windows NT was very sensitive to overclocking, compared to the other (home use) windows (win95 or whatever it was) available at the time.
 
VirtualLarry said:
One thing is for certain, Windows 10 is FAR more tolerant of overclocking on this platform / board than Linux Mint 18 Mate 64-bit is.
Click to expand...

So what you're saying is your overclock is unstable. Overclocking can only really be looked at in black and white. Either it's stable or it's not. If you're having issues with Linux it means it's not stable, full stop. There is no inbetween and there is no such thing as tolerance in software.
 
TheRyuu said:
So what you're saying is your overclock is unstable. Overclocking can only really be looked at in black and white. Either it's stable or it's not. If you're having issues with Linux it means it's not stable, full stop. There is no inbetween and there is no such thing as tolerance in software.
Click to expand...

There's no CPU instability, and no memory instability. The only issue is the SATA port(s), and their clocking. Windows' is far more tolerant, and will step down when it encounters bus errors. Linux may not.

Btw, I disagree with the bolded.
 
VirtualLarry said:
There's no CPU instability, and no memory instability. The only issue is the SATA port(s), and their clocking. Windows' is far more tolerant, and will step down when it encounters bus errors. Linux may not.

Btw, I disagree with the bolded.
Click to expand...

I think the way Linux works, is it tries ever decreasing hardware levels, and once it works it just sticks to that level. So if it is unstable (SATA) at the higher speeds, Linux will just fail, just like you said (if I understand its operation correctly).

But windows may be much more flexible, and if the (initially working) higher speed, stops working. It may automatically try lower speeds, and see if that keeps the driver/software working.

As a rule of thumb, windows drivers tend to be more compatible and easier to use, than Linux. But Linux has its own advantages as well, which can make up for that.

E.g. Almost all video cards, seem to work with windows. But it can be a bit hard, with some video cards, to get them to work well, under Linux. Especially if you are not a Linux expert, at the scripting level etc.
 
^ Linux is very intolerant with broken or "sloppy" hardware while Windows runs happily, Linux is a good way to know the quality of the hardware you have, I've experienced a lot of that over the years. I could put a cheap ass USB PCI 1x card in and Windows would recognize it and let me use it while Linux would give me a fit and I'd either have to jump through some hoops for a workaround or buy a better quality card (or known brand name/chipset). Linux was like this with NIC's years ago, 3com were the best ones to pick up back then.
 
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Yep and I remember some of these same people told me I was nuts and nothing like this could ever happen with not being able to boot when overclocking the BCLK over 105-130. I was even in ide mode and still got massive data corruption or no boot on my harddrive/OS.
But...,I still love my little 5350 cause it only sips 15-25w and can stay running 24/7 without burning down the house.Dont get me wrong I can easily do 105 but one step further along to 106 and poof no more computer.. 🙁
 
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