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Overclocked Sandy/Ivy Bridge HTPC build

VirtualLarry

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Looking at possibly finally doing an upgrade from my C2Q CPUs. I tried out a PS2 emulator on my friend's 3.0GHz Athlon II X4 640 CPU, and it ran at about half of the normal framerate (26FPS on BIOS, 30-45 FPS on game, sometimes 60FPS on game's menus).

Primary purpose of this build would be to run PS2 games at 60FPS solid. Secondarily MAME, and internet radio too.

Want something that I can hook up in place of my current HTPC (780G, BE-2400 2.3Ghz dual-core), via HDMI, to my 32" LCD TV running at 1366x768.

So I basically want a micro-ATX, or a mini-ITX. Current HTPC is sitting on a shelf, would like future emulation/HTPC rig to fit into same space. (Edit: Existing case is 14" wide, 15" deep, and 5.5" high.)

Want to overclock it to the max, whatever I get. I'm basically assuming that this build will involve a 2500K, although there are rumors of a 2550K coming out very soon now.

Budget is not unlimited. Would like to do this on the cheap. I'm not sure what I would even need for this. Is $400 good enough?

I have existing RF wireless keyboard, IR remote for mouse, and will use front-panel USB ports for attaching PS2 controllers via a USB adaptor. Would be nice if it had more than two front-panel USB2. No real need for USB3. Number of front-panel USB is not a deal-breaker, I currently have an APC 7-port USB2 hub plugged in, primarily because the front-panel USB ports on current HTPC don't supply enough power to run my MagicJack, so it's plugged into the USB hub.

I also have an OS license, and some 1TB Seagate HDs, and some 30GB SSDs. Also plenty of 4GB DDR3-1333 and DDR3-1600 sticks. (Been jumping on the sales, hoping to either use or resell someday.)

Did I forget anything from the sticky? When am I building? Fairly soon, depending on funds. I'm selling a computer to a friend, and he's giving me a CC allowance of $210 for it. (I pick out parts, he buys on CC.) I should be getting some money for a Chrismas present from folks too.

I want to do this right, and I only have limited experience with the emu. For example, I don't know what kind of graphics-card horsepower it takes.

I know that the PSX 1 emulator, EPSXE, runs just fine on my HTPC, with internet radio running in the background taking up nearly 40-50% CPU, with the HD3200 ATI IGP.

But PCSX2 takes more horsepower.

So I guess I need a CPU, motherboard, case, and PSU. HDs and RAM I already have, along with the OS license.

Edit: I have a related thread in CPU forum, asking about the CPU requirements for good 60FPS PS2 emulation:
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2213016

Edit: Specs for the emu. Seem way outdated to me, it claims a 2.0Ghz C2D can reach 60FPS.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCSX2

Edit: I saw this motherboard recommended in another thread:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...&SID=u00000687
ASUS P8Z68-M Pro LGA 1155 Intel Z68 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 Micro ATX Intel Motherboard with UEFI BIOS
$125 Newegg

Another possibility is this one:
http://www.microcenter.com/single_pr...uct_id=0367879
Z68 Pro3-M Socket 1155 Z68 mATX Intel Motherboard
$110 Microcenter
(I have a Microcenter less than an hour away, I could save on a Z68 mobo and a 2500K that way.)

As long as it has good overclocking capability, and has four RAM slots (preferred), then it doesn't matter to me so much. I don't think I'll have two GPUs in this rig, but I might have one.

I think that the hardest thing to find will be the case.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811163112
SILVERSTONE SUGO SG02-BF Black ABS / SECC Steel MicroATX Desktop Computer Case
$75 + $10 ship

Edit: I just thought of something that might complicate things. If I plan on overclocking the 2500K to 4.5 or slightly more, than I'm going to need a fairly high-end cooler. Which needs room in the HTPC case. Any ideas what might fit?

http://www.microcenter.com/single_pr...uct_id=0311405
Scithe SHURIKEN Rev.B 3 Universal CPU Cooler

http://www.microcenter.com/single_pr...uct_id=0260879
Zalman CNPS7500-Cu LED Universal CPU Cooler

I'm not a huge fan of Zalman, they were known for looking fancy, but not cooling so well.

These are some of the only two in stock at Microcenter that look like they might fit the above case.
 
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You'll want the fastest single core CPU peformance you can get but even then you're never going to 60 FPS in all games all the time. Graphics card doesn't matter that much, any real ATI or NVIDIA graphics card should do.

Personally I'd just use a real PlayStation 2, no noisy fans, no compatibility problems.
 
After seeing the Ivy Bridge price list thread in the CPU forum, I'm now thinking I should hold off for IB, if the rumors are true that it is likely to clock to 5Ghz easy. I want the highest single-thread performance possible. Does anyone know an approximate release date for IB? If it releases by March 2012, then I can wait. If it is going to be, say, May 2012, then I might not want to wait.
 
VirtualLarry said:
After seeing the Ivy Bridge price list thread in the CPU forum, I'm now thinking I should hold off for IB, if the rumors are true that it is likely to clock to 5Ghz easy. I want the highest single-thread performance possible. Does anyone know an approximate release date for IB? If it releases by March 2012, then I can wait. If it is going to be, say, May 2012, then I might not want to wait.
Click to expand...

I think it's going to split the difference between those two.
 
mfenn said:
Winner. You can get those for what $40 or so?
Click to expand...

And they wear out eventually. I want a better solution. One that lets me lay in bed and change games without having to actually get up and swap discs.

That's like saying, "Why bother with an HTPC? Just get a cable box, and a blu-ray player."
 
The problem with reliable and fast PS2 emulation is it dosn't exhist. Its sad but emulation is in a huge slump, probably because emulating 3d through 3d is a huge hurdle.

Half of the performance gain in emulating PS2 games is making sure you have all the right short cuts and speed up routines enabled (of which there are like 15+, and one wrong setting could crash the game). Other then that, 3 things matter.

!) Get the fastest clocked cpu available. Multi core is not an issue so you will probably find this in the 2 core variety, unless all the new cpus are now quad only? Many CPUs will be emulated and ontop of this, there will be GPU routines that require cpu emulation.

2) fastest GPU available.. not sure why.. but despite being ps2 level graphics, the emulator does better with high end video cards.

3) a large hard drive. You can forget about running off the dvd-rom at descent frame rates, you will need to rip all your games to the HD before playing them.

For now.. buying a ps2 is probably the best case... buy a ps2 now and hope for better emulation in the future. Of course ps2 emulation is a decade old now and you can see how far weve gotten.. so don't hold your breath.
 
VirtualLarry said:
And they wear out eventually. I want a better solution. One that lets me lay in bed and change games without having to actually get up and swap discs.
Click to expand...

Because an emulator is in no way a better solution, see below. This ain't an SNES where the emulators are extremely mature and stable. You will have to get up out of bed to fiddle with a bunch of menu options for each game.

JeffMD said:
The problem with reliable and fast PS2 emulation is it dosn't exhist. Its sad but emulation is in a huge slump, probably because emulating 3d through 3d is a huge hurdle.

Half of the performance gain in emulating PS2 games is making sure you have all the right short cuts and speed up routines enabled (of which there are like 15+, and one wrong setting could crash the game). Other then that, 3 things matter.

!) Get the fastest clocked cpu available. Multi core is not an issue so you will probably find this in the 2 core variety, unless all the new cpus are now quad only? Many CPUs will be emulated and ontop of this, there will be GPU routines that require cpu emulation.

2) fastest GPU available.. not sure why.. but despite being ps2 level graphics, the emulator does better with high end video cards.

3) a large hard drive. You can forget about running off the dvd-rom at descent frame rates, you will need to rip all your games to the HD before playing them.

For now.. buying a ps2 is probably the best case... buy a ps2 now and hope for better emulation in the future. Of course ps2 emulation is a decade old now and you can see how far weve gotten.. so don't hold your breath.
Click to expand...
 
Ok, since the reason I want to build this rig is causing so much turmoil, I changed the thread title. If we could get beyond whether or not PS2 emulation is any good, and move onto actual part selection.

I need a motherboard, case, PSU, heatsink. Assume CPU is 2500K, and that I'll pick it up at Microcenter. Also assume that I do want to upgrade to IB eventually, if not wait for IB in the first place. (The big question to me is if IB will easily OC higher, right now the bar is set at 4.5Ghz for an "average" SB OC.) I don't want to go over 1.35v for SB either. (After seeing a friend's 45nm E5200 degrade under 1.425v idle voltage, I'm paranoid about subjecting 32nm chips to similar voltages.)
 
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VirtualLarry said:
Ok, since the reason I want to build this rig is causing so much turmoil, I changed the thread title. If we could get beyond whether or not PS2 emulation is any good, and move onto actual part selection.
Click to expand...

Why would you want to overclock an HTPC? :awe:

VirtualLarry said:
I need a motherboard, case, PSU, heatsink. Assume CPU is 2500K, and that I'll pick it up at Microcenter. Also assume that I do want to upgrade to IB eventually, if not wait for IB in the first place. (The big question to me is if IB will easily OC higher, right now the bar is set at 4.5Ghz for an "average" SB OC.) I don't want to go over 1.35v for SB either. (After seeing a friend's 45nm E5200 degrade under 1.425v idle voltage, I'm paranoid about subjecting 32nm chips to similar voltages.)
Click to expand...

Upgrading from SB to IB is not going to be worth it unless you upgrade from one class of chips to another (i3 -> i5, etc.) You're looking at a 20% performance bump at the same price point.

What's your budget? I saw $210 in the OP, but we both know that's way too low.
 
VirtualLarry said:
Budget is not unlimited. Would like to do this on the cheap. I'm not sure what I would even need for this. Is $400 good enough?
Click to expand...

I was just mentioning I should be getting $210 from a friend for selling him one of my PCs, which can be put towards this goal. I will be supplying the rest of the money myself.

I was reading a thread about i3-540 (Clarkdale, 32nm too) overclocking, and one fellow managed to get 4.5 with that.

So now I'm wondering, should I even bother with Sandy/Ivy, or should I try to save money and go with 1156, even though it is basically obsolete, because it is still overclockable.

Newegg wants $100 for an i3-540 retail CPU w/heatsink.
Newegg also has EVGA 120-LF-E651-RX LGA 1156 Intel P55 Micro ATX Intel Motherboard (RECERTIFIED) for $70. It has SLI support. Unsure of overclocking features.

So I could get away with CPU+mobo for $170. Add a Scythe Shuriken B for $35, and I'm at $205, for a 4.5Ghz dual-core solution.

If Microcenter does another sale with the 2500K and $50/$60 off of a mobo, then I could get a 2500K for $180, and a ASrock Pro3-M that I linked in the OP, for like $50-60 additional. So $240, plus $35 for a cooler, would total $275, for a 4.5Ghz quad-core solution.

The selection of motherboards for 1156 is diminishing.

Also, to overclock 1156 chips, do you have to use a P55 motherboard, or can H55 motherboards overclock? If H55 can overclock, then I would have a bigger selection of motherboards.
 
believe Microcenter still has a $160 for i5 2500k (coupon via facebook). According to this, Microcenter should still honor $160 2500k + $50 off mobo

I recently did a build with a i5 2500k, ASRock Z68 Pro3-M (both from Microcenter), Silverstone SG02 case, Corsair 430W, 2x4GB ddr3 1600, vertex plus 60GB ssd

the CPU cooler/PSU location in this case isn't the best. either flip the PSU so the fan blows from the top, or use a saw and put the PSU in the drive bays (might want to drill holes on the topcase)

stock CPU HSF stock clocks ~ 40-45C idle, 75C stress

got a Ultra U12-40602 X-Wind $10 CPU cooler... all copper which is nice, keeps temps 35C idle 55C stress(stock clocks).. problem is that it blocks the GPU and RAM slots... running on single channel memory... a good alternative is a Corsair H60 water cooler

Think the recent i5 2500k chips OC better... my first i5 (in sig) could
barely boot into windows at 5ghz at 1.5ish ghz. This i5 I got recently could boot and run a few passes of IBT at 5ghz 1.38V... swapped it with a friend, he's running 4.8@1.36 right now passing 12hr prime

lmk if you want pics... the SG02 case though isn't the best for overclocking b/c of the PSU->HSF airflow problem... either you mod if and put the PSU in the drive bay (and use a tower cooler like a 212+), or use a water cooler
 
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VirtualLarry said:
Also, to overclock 1156 chips, do you have to use a P55 motherboard, or can H55 motherboards overclock? If H55 can overclock, then I would have a bigger selection of motherboards.
Click to expand...

Yes, you have to use a P55 mobo to OC 1156. Given that your goal is to reach the highest clock speed possible for the least money, I would say that an i3 5xx or i5 6xx is not a bad option. To choose the CPU, just look at the clock speed😛rice ratio and pick the one that has the highest clock speed before prices get insane. Since these chips are multiplier locked, the higher your base multiplier, the easier it is to high high clocks.
 
Now I'm considering an unlocked LLano. Motherboards for FM1 are cheap and plentiful, and there are lots of Micro ATX boards.

Any idea how high these overclock? Will I be able to hit over 4Ghz with one?

AMD A8-3870K Unlocked Llano 3.0GHz Socket FM1 100W Quad-Core Desktop APU with DirectX 11 Graphic AMD Radeon HD 6550D AD3870WNGXBOX
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819106001

ASRock A75M-HVS FM1 AMD A75 (Hudson D3) HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 Micro ATX AMD Motherboard with UEFI BIOS
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813157261
$69.99 + $5

BIOSTAR A75MH FM1 AMD A75 (Hudson D3) HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 Micro ATX AMD Motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813138337
$69.99 + $7

The ASRock board has an 8-pin CPU 12V power connector. Whether that would matter for a substantial overclock, I don't know. I'm not really sure if either one of those boards supports unlocked "K" Llano chips yet either.

BIOSTAR TA75M+ FM1 AMD A75 (Hudson D3) HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 Micro ATX AMD Motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813138330
$79.99 + $3

This one has only a 4-pin ATX12V connector, but it has a heatsink on the VRMs, and a USB3.0 mobo header, and four DDR3 DIMM slots.
 
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Amazon has ASUS F1A75-V Pro for $55 after rebate. too bad its ATX, not mATX, but you can get ATX cases that put the PSU under the drive bays, making it more mATX sized...

http://www.amazon.com/ASUS-F1A75-V-P...g=hardfocom-20

Newegg has it for $110 after rebate
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131765


im not sure what kind of specs PS2 emulators use, but the last I checked Dolphin, it only uses dual cores (well, 3rd core sometimes)... so a higher IPC is better (i3) than more cores
 
I'd advise against a Llano for this application. Even if you were able to get it to 5GHz, it would still be slower than an i3 at 4GHz in single-threaded performance.
 
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