Outsourcing: a micro perspective

[6000SUX]

Originally posted by: Skanderberg
Unlike you, I don't just read about Japan...I live in Japan. U.S. products are every where. McDonalds, Coca Cola, Disney, Nike, Intel, Microsoft, Procter & Gamble, Kellogs, Budweiser, just to name a few of the companies whose products I see on a daily basis.

The lack of U.S. cars in Japan is not because of protectionism, but because U.S. suto makers fail to make products that appeal to the Japanese consumers. Japanese car companies by contrast are very good at designing products for the American market. As I pointed out before, many Japanese companies employ Americans in their manufacturing plants. Do American auto companies have plants here in Japan? NO!

Who is outsourcing more...the U.S. or Japan. We have more jobs supplied by Japanese companies than the Japanese have jobs supplied by American companies.

edit: p.s. White-collar jobs are not lost when manufacturing jobs are outsourced.

Duh, again. I never said white-collar jobs were outsourced when manufacturing jobs are outsourced. You can put words in people's mouths, but it makes your argument look weaker.

As for living in Japan, that alone doesn't give weight to your words. It does qualify you to give an opinion on ramen noodles, but not necessarily economics. Maybe you should read a little more!

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From the article:

"The growth in the trade deficit over the past two decades has destroyed millions of high-wage, high skilled manufacturing jobs in the U.S., and pushed workers into other sectors where wages are lower, such as restaurants and health service industries. ... Most economists now acknowledge that trade is responsible for 20 to 25 percent of the increase in income inequality which has occurred in the U.S. over the past two decades. However, existing research can only explain about half of the change in income inequality. Therefore, trade is responsible for about 40% of the explainable share of increased income inequality."

All talk of synergy aside, you cannot claim that this has been good overall for the American worker.

 

[6000SUX]

Oh, and it is plain foolish to claim that the Japanese never practiced protectionism. Do a goddamn Web search for yourself. One of the very first hits:

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[Engineer]

Originally posted by: Skanderberg

edit: p.s. White-collar jobs are not lost when manufacturing jobs are outsourced.

Working in manufacturing, I can tell you that is 100% false!!!

As I watch jobs being outsourced to the point that plants close, causing the job loss of engineers, plant managers, quality personel, HR personel, production supervision, etc., I can 100% tell you that white collar jobs are indeed lost. I have seen hundreds of such jobs eliminated in manufacturing as my very company shifts them to Mexico and beyond.

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: Skanderberg

edit: p.s. White-collar jobs are not lost when manufacturing jobs are outsourced.

Working in manufacturing, I can tell you that is 100% false!!!

As I watch jobs being outsourced to the point that plants close, causing the job loss of engineers, plant managers, quality personel, HR personel, production supervision, etc., I can 100% tell you that white collar jobs are indeed lost. I have seen hundreds of such jobs eliminated in manufacturing as my very company shifts them to Mexico and beyond.

Heh, even if "white collar" jobs are not lost now, it doesn't mean the white collar job of future isn't being lost. Companies justify outsourcing or offshoring saying that only low level jobs are being lost. I see teams of young Indian, Filippino and people from other countries come into corporate America and taking on jobs like programming, accounting and other types of core operational tasks. Corporate America says that it's better to outsource these jobs so they can focus on managing, and other types of higher level tasks.

But think about it, what kind of future managers/business leaders corporate America will have if nobody ever get their hands on lower level operational tasks. Anybody who works before knows the worst kind of manager you can have is those who don't have the basic operational experience and who just talks out of their butt. If corporate America gives all the basic jobs to non-American instead of American college grad's, who is gonna be the futher "white collar" business leader of corporate America? Hey, maybe we should outsource CEO jobs too, that wouldn't be a bad thing...hehe

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: Skanderberg

edit: p.s. White-collar jobs are not lost when manufacturing jobs are outsourced.

Working in manufacturing, I can tell you that is 100% false!!!

As I watch jobs being outsourced to the point that plants close, causing the job loss of engineers, plant managers, quality personel, HR personel, production supervision, etc., I can 100% tell you that white collar jobs are indeed lost. I have seen hundreds of such jobs eliminated in manufacturing as my very company shifts them to Mexico and beyond.

Heh, even if "white collar" jobs are not lost now, it doesn't mean the white collar job of future isn't being lost. Companies justify outsourcing or offshoring saying that only low level jobs are being lost. I see teams of young Indian, Filippino and people from other countries come into corporate America and taking on jobs like programming, accounting and other types of core operational tasks. Corporate America says that it's better to outsource these jobs so they can focus on managing, and other types of higher level tasks.

But think about it, what kind of future managers/business leaders corporate America will have if nobody ever get their hands on lower level operational tasks. Anybody who works before knows the worst kind of manager you can have is those who don't have the basic operational experience and who just talks out of their butt. If corporate America gives all the basic jobs to non-American instead of American college grad's, who is gonna be the futher "white collar" business leader of corporate America? Hey, maybe we should outsource CEO jobs too, that wouldn't be a bad thing...hehe

Thanks

In a long drawn out way you just said what I've been saying all along.

Since these Companies are clearly no longer "American" Companies they should lose their American Corporate Charter.

For example Bank of America is really Bank Of India.

It's Headquarters, CEO etc should all be shipped off to India.

 

[jimkyser]

Originally posted by: Skanderberg

Originally posted by: Looney

If there is outsourcing to the US, it's got to be very miniscule. If anything, the US outsources to Canada. Occasionally you'll read about a Canadian company outsourcing to a US company, but that US company would actually open the call center in Canada! And may even hire some of the laid off workers! Why do they do this? To dump the union. Bell did just this in the late 90s.


Ontario?s 6.5 million workers are well educated. 55% of our workforce (25-64years) have completed their post-secondary education. That?s a higher percentage than any industrialized country

Are ou basing this assumption on any statistical evidece or relying on the media to make your decisions for you?

Are you aware that every major automaker in Japan has at least three auto plants in the U.S.? How many GM and Ford plants are in Japan?...ZERO.

Are you aware that major European companies have many offices in the U.S. that employ Americans?

Are you aware that the number one trade partner of the U.S. is not China? It is Canada followed by Mexico at number two.

Are you aware that American exports to Mexico have gone up more than imports from Mexico since NAFTA was signed into law by President Clinton?

If you are so against outsourcing, why not go to an employee of a BMW auto plant or a Sony electronics plant and ask them to return their paycheck to the foreign company that employs them in America?

It may be true that you won't find a Ford or General Motors plant in Japan, but you will find Toyo-Kogyo(Mazda), Suzuki, Isuzu. These companies have either majority or large minority stakes held by Ford and GM. The US auto companies chose to invest in Japanese autos through these proxies vs. trying to sell US designs to the Japanese consumer. And the real issue for the US automakers isn't even in the area of cars with Ford or GM on the fenders where the likes/dislikes of the average Japanese consumer may make a difference, it's in the selling of parts to the Japanese auto industry where the consumer has no idea where the parts come from. The Japanese pretty much refuse to use the interchangeable parts from the US, even when the parts from the US are cheaper but of equal quality.

 

[techs]

Is ANYONE still blinded by the propaganda that outsourcing American jobs is good for America?

 

[nergee]

Respect for the importance of manufacturing and the value placed on people who have done it well goes a long way toward explaining the success of some companies compared to their competitors. Toyota is a great example. I bet the chairman there knows squat about stock derivatives but knows manufacturing very well.