Outsider Looking In

[Stunt]

First off...congratulations on your win; much deserved after the horrible Bush regime.

Now that the midterm elections are over I have a few questions to ask:
1) How come before the elections Democrats were complaining about the electronic voting and were bugging everone and their dog to watch documentaries about corrupt voting machines when the Dems outperformed almost all predictions?

2) How come I see Republicans looking at their own party for the flaws this time around and not blaming the "American Sheeple"? The Democrats did this three elections in a row.

3) Now that the Dems have won both the House and Senate, will they be more focused on pidly little bills, partisan wheeling and dealing instead of preparing for the 2008 presidential election?

Answers?

 

[Moonbeam]

Now that the midterm elections are over I have a few questions to ask:
1) How come before the elections Democrats were complaining about the electronic voting and were bugging everone and their dog to watch documentaries about corrupt voting machines when the Dems outperformed almost all predictions?

Vote fraud can only garner the cheaters so many votes. They can't overcome a tidal wave.

2) How come I see Republicans looking at their own party for the flaws this time around and not blaming the "American Sheeple"? The Democrats did this three elections in a row.

The Sheeple had the wool pulled over their eyes for years and years and they started seeing with their ears.

3) Now that the Dems have won both the House and Senate, will they be more focused on pidly little bills, partisan wheeling and dealing instead of preparing for the 2008 presidential election?

No, they are going to bring Paradise on earth with people oriented politics. You didn't know that?

 

[EagleKeeper]

1) Prepping for excuses - typcial of blame the other guy attitude

2) The Republicans are not going to blame anyone but themselves. They will analye what went wrong and come up with a battle plan to refocus the party to be like they did in 2000. This will force the Dems to actually have to define themselves - they can not run against the Repub or Bush in 08

3) I would expect that the Dems will be trying to push their agenda forward without worrying what the Repubs are doing. If they can not actually make progress with their promises, they Repubs will be able to point the finger at the Dems and the Dems can not blames anyone but themselves.

Even though I am a conservative; I would like the Dems to actully try to succeed in putting their foot where no Dem has feared to tread and ignore the radical left (Teddy and co.).

If they do, it may jump start a new era of politics for all sides.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Stunt
First off...congratulations on your win; much deserved after the horrible Bush regime.

Now that the midterm elections are over I have a few questions to ask:
1) How come before the elections Democrats were complaining about the electronic voting and were bugging everone and their dog to watch documentaries about corrupt voting machines when the Dems outperformed almost all predictions?

Proof of such outperforming? There were MANY close races and still some races that have yet to be called.

2) How come I see Republicans looking at their own party for the flaws this time around and not blaming the "American Sheeple"? The Democrats did this three elections in a row.

Oh, they're blaming Americans all right. You're just not reading it for some reason. Look at Rumsfeld's not-so-subtle insult to America about the "not understood" war on Iraq.

3) Now that the Dems have won both the House and Senate, will they be more focused on pidly little bills, partisan wheeling and dealing instead of preparing for the 2008 presidential election?

Answers?

I believe you'll find they'll focus on minimum wage, estate tax, repealing Bush tax cuts for the wealthy, summit on Iraq, balanced budget rules, etc. Those are already being talked about.

 

[Tab]

1 - I don't think there was any specific democrat sponsered announcement about voting problems. Last elections, there were voting problems. For example, 4 hour voting lines in poorer districts. If you actually watched the recent voting documentaries, you'd notice the republicans complained about voting problems too.

2 - I say it would have to do with the fact they lost and they lost so much.

3 - I'd hope they'd use the current monumentum(sp?) to get out a viable presidental ccandidate. Please don't let it be someone like Al Gore, Hilary Clinton or John Kerry.

 

[ProfJohn]

There were a lot of voter problems out there.
A few places in MO ran out of ballots and many voters left and did not get a chance to vote. Apparently these were Republican disctricts. Might not have made a difference, but the reaction from the Republicans vs the reaction from the Democrats tell you a ton about them.

 

[bobdelt]

1. only democrats whine and bitch
2. because its the republican attitude... do everything yourself, dont blame other people (no welfare, etc)
3. If the dems were smart they wouldnt make the next years petty partisan bs. They need to work with bush just as much as bush needs to work with them. If they prevent bush from getting anything done, the public might react negatively against the dems, especially since they have so many great and awesome plans!

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Stunt
First off...congratulations on your win; much deserved after the horrible Bush regime.

Now that the midterm elections are over I have a few questions to ask:
1) How come before the elections Democrats were complaining about the electronic voting and were bugging everone and their dog to watch documentaries about corrupt voting machines when the Dems outperformed almost all predictions?

I don't think it was just Dems...MANY people were concerned, and are still concerned, about electronic voting machines. The myth that it was just Dems is silly, stop drinking the Koolaid and pay attention

2) How come I see Republicans looking at their own party for the flaws this time around and not blaming the "American Sheeple"? The Democrats did this three elections in a row.

I see plenty of whining and complaining, but it's not quite the same thing. Look at many of the posts here, there is plenty of spin and plenty of responses other than Republicans looking deep into their ideology. As for the Dems not doing that, again, don't buy the hype...clearly they learned something from 2004 and improved their party, independent of the various groups complaining. I suspect the Republicans will also do the same after THIS election.

3) Now that the Dems have won both the House and Senate, will they be more focused on pidly little bills, partisan wheeling and dealing instead of preparing for the 2008 presidential election?

I think they will focus a lot on 2008, and I ALSO think they will focus on being truly bipartisan. It's the smart move, and I think people are sick of the Bush style bully politics where if you don't agree with him it's because you hate America. If the Dems kick the Republicans out of power in congress just to replace it with more of the same vicious partisan culture, I think it will seriously hurt them in 2008.

Answers?

If I had to sum all that up, it's that you need to pay more attention to the big picture. You see what you thought you'd see from both sides, but I don't think that quite tells the whole story.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: bobdelt
1. only democrats whine and bitch
2. because its the republican attitude... do everything yourself, dont blame other people (no welfare, etc)

Please. The Republicans practically invented whiny drama (even if the Dems helped perfect it), and I certainly haven't seen a lot of self-reliance and personal responsibility from the GOP lately.

 

[aidanjm]

Originally posted by: Stunt
how come before the elections Democrats were complaining about the electronic voting and were bugging everone and their dog to watch documentaries about corrupt voting machines when the Dems outperformed almost all predictions?

wouldn't the questions surrounding electronic voting and the deliberate disenfranchising of voters (by republican election officials) still remain, despite good Deocratic wins?

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: Stunt
First off...congratulations on your win; much deserved after the horrible Bush regime.

Now that the midterm elections are over I have a few questions to ask:
1) How come before the elections Democrats were complaining about the electronic voting and were bugging everone and their dog to watch documentaries about corrupt voting machines when the Dems outperformed almost all predictions? ...

I'm not a Democrat, but I believe I was the first person to post a P&N thread about the security vulnerabilities of electronic voting machines, and I have been one of the most persistent in trying to call attention to them. I don't believe I've ever said or even suggested that this was a partisan problem. Indeed, I've made a point of explicitly suggesting the biggest threat could come from external parties, for example foreign governments or terrorist organizations who could benefit from manipulating U.S. elections, or from unethical people/groups who could reap literally billions of dollars if they had the right people in the right places. I have, however, pointed out that the Bush supporters here were far more likely to be dismissive towards the issue, apparently because they didn't want to consider it, assuming it was a purely partisan issue. (Or maybe they are in favor of dishonest elections, who knows? )

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
2) The Republicans are not going to blame anyone but themselves. They will analye what went wrong and come up with a battle plan to refocus the party to be like they did in 2000. This will force the Dems to actually have to define themselves - they can not run against the Repub or Bush in 08

Some Republicans might even be happy to see Bush and the neo-cons (who they blame for running their party into the ground) lose power, especially moderate Republicans and fiscal conservatives.

 

[theeedude]

1) I think E-voting was so relatively trouble free because of all the attention on it to get it right, not inspite of it.
2) Did you listen to the Bush press conference this morning?
3) It has always been about 2008. 2006 is just part 1 of 2008 campaign. I actually wouldn't have had a problem losing this time to set the groundwork for complete sweep in 2008.

 

[her209]

Originally posted by: Stunt
1) How come before the elections Democrats were complaining about the electronic voting and were bugging everone and their dog to watch documentaries about corrupt voting machines when the Dems outperformed almost all predictions?

The problem still exists and hopefully the Devilcrats will introduce legislation to "fix" them. Get it?... Get it? :laugh:

 

[JD50]

You brought up some great points that I haven't even though of.

I guess the E-voting is ok for them as long as the Dems win.

You're right, I have not seen any republicans on this board blaming the "sheeple", if the tables were turned that is all that you would hear.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: senseamp
1) I think E-voting was so relatively trouble free because of all the attention on it to get it right, not inspite of it.
2) Did you listen to the Bush press conference this morning?
3) It has always been about 2008. 2006 is just part 1 of 2008 campaign. I actually wouldn't have had a problem losing this time to set the groundwork for complete sweep in 2008.

1. If republicans won there is no way that you would be saying this.

2. I could be wrong, but I think that he was referring to the Republicans on this board. If so, he is absolutely correct.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Stunt
Topic Title: Outsider Looking In
Topic Summary: My questions for the Dems...

First off...congratulations on your win; much deserved after the horrible Bush regime.

Now that the midterm elections are over I have a few questions to ask:
1) How come before the elections Democrats were complaining about the electronic voting and were bugging everone and their dog to watch documentaries about corrupt voting machines when the Dems outperformed almost all predictions?

2) How come I see Republicans looking at their own party for the flaws this time around and not blaming the "American Sheeple"? The Democrats did this three elections in a row.

3) Now that the Dems have won both the House and Senate, will they be more focused on pidly little bills, partisan wheeling and dealing instead of preparing for the 2008 presidential election?

Answers?

Well thanks for finally saying you're an outsider.

It's apparent you want no part of U.S. Politics now that your hero's lost :laugh:

 

[Wreckem]

Originally posted by: Stunt
First off...congratulations on your win; much deserved after the horrible Bush regime.

Now that the midterm elections are over I have a few questions to ask:
1) How come before the elections Democrats were complaining about the electronic voting and were bugging everone and their dog to watch documentaries about corrupt voting machines when the Dems outperformed almost all predictions?

2) How come I see Republicans looking at their own party for the flaws this time around and not blaming the "American Sheeple"? The Democrats did this three elections in a row.

3) Now that the Dems have won both the House and Senate, will they be more focused on pidly little bills, partisan wheeling and dealing instead of preparing for the 2008 presidential election?

Answers?

To answer number 2. There have been rumblings among conservatives for the last several years. There a plenty of republicans glad that theres been a powershift because now they can rebuild the party and get rid of alot of people, mainly the neo-cons. While the Neo-Cons are entrenched right now, they wont be after 2008.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Stunt
Topic Title: Outsider Looking In
Topic Summary: My questions for the Dems...

First off...congratulations on your win; much deserved after the horrible Bush regime.

Now that the midterm elections are over I have a few questions to ask:
1) How come before the elections Democrats were complaining about the electronic voting and were bugging everone and their dog to watch documentaries about corrupt voting machines when the Dems outperformed almost all predictions?

2) How come I see Republicans looking at their own party for the flaws this time around and not blaming the "American Sheeple"? The Democrats did this three elections in a row.

3) Now that the Dems have won both the House and Senate, will they be more focused on pidly little bills, partisan wheeling and dealing instead of preparing for the 2008 presidential election?

Answers?

Well thanks for finally saying you're an outsider.

It's apparent you want no part of U.S. Politics now that your hero's lost :laugh:

He is not even from this country, why would they be his heroes? You are the only person on this message board that I would consider completely pathetic.

At least we won't have to listen to you insulting the American people by calling them sheeple all the time anymore.

 

[Wreckem]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
There were a lot of voter problems out there.
A few places in MO ran out of ballots and many voters left and did not get a chance to vote. Apparently these were Republican disctricts. Might not have made a difference, but the reaction from the Republicans vs the reaction from the Democrats tell you a ton about them.

Thats BS. People were voting until 12am in several republican counties in Montana. Whoops misread that...

But IIRC there polls remained open two hours extra in several places in Missouri.

 

[Wreckem]

Bottom line, this election was GOOD for America.

Its bringing the politicans to the center.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Stunt
Topic Title: Outsider Looking In
Topic Summary: My questions for the Dems...

First off...congratulations on your win; much deserved after the horrible Bush regime.

Now that the midterm elections are over I have a few questions to ask:
1) How come before the elections Democrats were complaining about the electronic voting and were bugging everone and their dog to watch documentaries about corrupt voting machines when the Dems outperformed almost all predictions?

2) How come I see Republicans looking at their own party for the flaws this time around and not blaming the "American Sheeple"? The Democrats did this three elections in a row.

3) Now that the Dems have won both the House and Senate, will they be more focused on pidly little bills, partisan wheeling and dealing instead of preparing for the 2008 presidential election?

Answers?

Well thanks for finally saying you're an outsider.

It's apparent you want no part of U.S. Politics now that your hero's lost :laugh:

He is not even from this country, why would they be his heroes?

You are the only person on this message board that I would consider completely pathetic.

At least we won't have to listen to you insulting the American people by calling them sheeple all the time anymore.

Obviously you haven't been around long enough to know he worships Bush and the Republicans.

But you obviously have been on long enough to know I'm completely pathetic.

Oh and who said the Sheeple are off the hook???

They've woken up a bit more than I thought they did but still have a long way to go before no longer considered Sheeple.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674


Obviously you haven't been around long enough to know he worships Bush and the Republicans.
But you obviously have been on long enough to know I'm completely pathetic.

Oh and who said the Sheeple are off the hook???

They've woken up a bit more than I thought they did but still have a long way to go before no longer considered Sheeple.

How can I take what you say seriously Dave, anytime someone disagrees with you that is what you say.

It doesn't take long to realize that you are pathetic, anyone that takes a look at your gas thread can see that.

Nothing personal, just an observation.

 

[Aisengard]

I think the broken e-voting machines that made polling places stay open later pretty much proved right anyone who was complaining about them. They're not ready for prime-time, and I'm not sure Diebold is the company to do it, if they're not willing to offer ATM-like security to these machines.

Just because the Democrats won doesn't mean electronic voting machines are suddenly 'right' or 'safe'. I certainly hope the new Democratic Senate and House makes moves to rectify this situation before '08.

 

[ntdz]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Stunt
Topic Title: Outsider Looking In
Topic Summary: My questions for the Dems...

First off...congratulations on your win; much deserved after the horrible Bush regime.

Now that the midterm elections are over I have a few questions to ask:
1) How come before the elections Democrats were complaining about the electronic voting and were bugging everone and their dog to watch documentaries about corrupt voting machines when the Dems outperformed almost all predictions?

2) How come I see Republicans looking at their own party for the flaws this time around and not blaming the "American Sheeple"? The Democrats did this three elections in a row.

3) Now that the Dems have won both the House and Senate, will they be more focused on pidly little bills, partisan wheeling and dealing instead of preparing for the 2008 presidential election?

Answers?

Well thanks for finally saying you're an outsider.

It's apparent you want no part of U.S. Politics now that your hero's lost :laugh:

He is not even from this country, why would they be his heroes?

You are the only person on this message board that I would consider completely pathetic.

At least we won't have to listen to you insulting the American people by calling them sheeple all the time anymore.

Obviously you haven't been around long enough to know he worships Bush and the Republicans.

But you obviously have been on long enough to know I'm completely pathetic.

Oh and who said the Sheeple are off the hook???

They've woken up a bit more than I thought they did but still have a long way to go before no longer considered Sheeple.

He's fiscally conservative and realistic about the economy, I wouldn't call him a Bush lover.

Have you ever considered some people just don't give a ****** about our government? It's just not important to them, and the differences between Republicans and Democrats is a very fine line. On a political scale compared to other countries, Democrats and Republicans would be right next to each other. So quit calling everyone sheeple just because they don't follow politics, they might have more important things to do, such as raise a family or work (that's if they can even get a job in this terrible economy with it's ridiculously high 4.4% unemployment)