Outrageuous targetting of the little wealth in Africa

Status
Not open for further replies.

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
It helps in reading this story to have some familiarity with the history of 'aid' and Africa - the typically exploitave situations as described in "Econmic Hit Man", where western countries would pressure third-world nations to take on massive debt with inflated 'estimates' of the returns, and often kickbacks for the corrupt rulers - the IMF and World Bank have largely renounced the old pracices they used as harmful to the nations.

Here is an article descripbing the aggressive western investment funds going after the money.

Africa's been exploited more than enough - after centuries of the slave trade destroying their lives and harming their societies, the areas were widely colonized and their resources extracted, followed by these economic schemes and arrangements for the resources to be obtained for low prices, while the poverty rages.

This is a good example of when government should stand up for society's values and prevent the bad activities for profit by these people who find 'opportunity' by being debt collectors for some old debt incurred for very dubious purposes, and reportedly often usurious interest.

The opposition to this exploitation is trying to put in place measures to cap the recovry at the amount of the loan plus 6% interest each year.

Care to guess who will oppose them?

The west should take some of the hit for the bad loan practices. There is some good news, that they partly have, cancelling some debt.

Imagine findoug out that Obama added $50 trillion in debt for the US to the Chinese you all owe, and he pocketed a $1 trillion hare of the loan pauid by them. I'm sure you would just quietly watch your family lived in a hut on dirt with no clean water or education as almost all of the budget went for interest and say that's only fair. I don't think so - but people look the other way when it's 'just Africa', not their own country. The west has had a harmful effect on Africa that most Americans have never heard about, such as dumping products.
 

TruePaige

Diamond Member
Oct 22, 2006
9,874
2
0
Nothing has happened to Africa that they didn't do to themselves. This has been happening since Carthage.

If they let their rulers put them in a bad spot then they are no different than us with health care or the UK with civil liberties.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
Originally posted by: TruePaige
Nothing has happened to Africa that they didn't do to themselves. This has been happening since Carthage.

If they let their rulers put them in a bad spot then they are no different than us with health care or the UK with civil liberties.

I am so sick our our ignorant and immoral people who are apologists for wrong. You are a 'little Eichmann', to quote Ward Churchill.

They don't 'let' their rulers do jack. You are too ignorant of the history of 'leaders' holding those positions through mass violence and foreign support for the very reason that they WOULD sell out the people to those same foreign governments. You are just disgusting to show up here and post the lies you make up to explain away the problem.
 

TruePaige

Diamond Member
Oct 22, 2006
9,874
2
0
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: TruePaige
Nothing has happened to Africa that they didn't do to themselves. This has been happening since Carthage.

If they let their rulers put them in a bad spot then they are no different than us with health care or the UK with civil liberties.

I am so sick our our ignorant and immoral people who are apologists for wrong. You are a 'little Eichmann', to quote Ward Churchill.

They don't 'let' their rulers do jack. You are too ignorant of the history of 'leaders' holding those positions through mass violence and foreign support for the very reason that they WOULD sell out the people to those same foreign governments. You are just disgusting to show up here and post the lies you make up to explain away the problem.

Maybe they should stop perpetuating the status quo?

You care about the citizens? Help them fight back against the leaders. Help them run to neighboring countries and seek asylum.


Just forgetting about money loaned is bullshit. Like we have money to piss away!

Maybe China will feel bad that so many of us are losing our jobs and homes and just forget about the money we owe to them too!

Fuck, it is people like you who demand we send aid and give loans in the first place, when we can't even give our own citizens health care!
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,571
6,712
126
Originally posted by: TruePaige
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: TruePaige
Nothing has happened to Africa that they didn't do to themselves. This has been happening since Carthage.

If they let their rulers put them in a bad spot then they are no different than us with health care or the UK with civil liberties.

I am so sick our our ignorant and immoral people who are apologists for wrong. You are a 'little Eichmann', to quote Ward Churchill.

They don't 'let' their rulers do jack. You are too ignorant of the history of 'leaders' holding those positions through mass violence and foreign support for the very reason that they WOULD sell out the people to those same foreign governments. You are just disgusting to show up here and post the lies you make up to explain away the problem.

Maybe they should stop perpetuating the status quo?

You care about the citizens? Help them fight back against the leaders. Help them run to neighboring countries and seek asylum.


Just forgetting about money loaned is bullshit. Like we have money to piss away!

Maybe China will feel bad that so many of us are losing our jobs and homes and just forget about the money we owe to them too!

Fuck, it is people like you who demand we send aid and give loans in the first place, when we can't even give our own citizens health care!

We give very little and that with objectives.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
Originally posted by: TruePaige
Just forgetting about money loaned is bullshit. Like we have money to piss away!

Fuck, it is people like you who demand we send aid and give loans in the first place, when we can't even give our own citizens health care!

1. You didn't understand the part explaining this is not some benevolent 'aid'.

It helps in reading this story to have some familiarity with the history of 'aid' and Africa - the typically exploitave situations as described in "Econmic Hit Man", where western countries would pressure third-world nations to take on massive debt with inflated 'estimates' of the returns, and often kickbacks for the corrupt rulers - the IMF and World Bank have largely renounced the old pracices they used as harmful to the nations.

2. My post did not say forgive the debt in the link, it mentioned limiting interest to 6%.

The opposition to this exploitation is trying to put in place measures to cap the recovery at the amount of the loan plus 6% interest each year.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
Disgusting. Hopefully that Singer gentleman will get AIDS and can quickly die from it.
 

DaveSimmons

Elite Member
Aug 12, 2001
40,730
670
126
I'd agree to forgiving all debt from buying military hardware. Those sales enriched big corporations while keeping strongmen in power to fight our proxy wars against "the commies." Thanks to the Western countries, China and Soviet Russia it's almost easier to find an assault rifle in some areas than a loaf of bread.
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,582
12
76
Who cares what happens to Africa? As long as we keep pumping in weapons and fueling the fires, the continent will remain backwards and corrupt. Africa holds the natural resources the West will need for the next 150 years, and we'll be competing with the Chinese for those resources. So why would we want to establish stable democracies that would require us to negotiate for resources when we can maintain corrupt dictatorships that will sell us their countries' resources for pennies on the dollar?
 

cliftonite

Diamond Member
Jul 15, 2001
6,899
63
91
Originally posted by: Nebor
Who cares what happens to Africa? As long as we keep pumping in weapons and fueling the fires, the continent will remain backwards and corrupt. Africa holds the natural resources the West will need for the next 150 years, and we'll be competing with the Chinese for those resources. So why would we want to establish stable democracies that would require us to negotiate for resources when we can maintain corrupt dictatorships that will sell us their countries' resources for pennies on the dollar?

You are pathetic.
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
174
106
Why is it that many of the people who want to hold current US citizens accountable for (bad) actions of long ago governments can't do the same to African governments and their people?

African countries and their governments make up their own rules, as they should. If they make poor decisions then they will bear the consequences.

The debt provided by the IMF and other such organizations can be structured to prevent this type of 'vulture' activity (e.g., non-transferability). But otherwise things seem to going along in accordance of international law, and that it might have some regretable consequences is not unusual.

Yes, the average person in Africa is in a pitiable situation under their government. However, we can't be 'nation building' all over the place.

I think the best we can do is ensure that our aid is done responsibly.

Fern
 

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
13,650
201
101
Who exactly should be held accountable for the decisions made by rulers of other countries? Are we in any position to decide who is a "legitimate" ruler and who isn't? No.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
Originally posted by: PokerGuy
Who exactly should be held accountable for the decisions made by rulers of other countries? Are we in any position to decide who is a "legitimate" ruler and who isn't? No.

Are you that ignorant of the role of our western nations in who got to be rulers there, in ou systemic corruption of thier policies, while the people were powerless and innocent?

Seriously, go read "Confessions of Economic Hit Man" to get a clue.

How about I go give a guy military aid so he can overthrow the government and take power in exchange for his selling out his country for my gain.

And then I say, 'who am I to judge his legitimacy? Not my business'.

But like others, you are missing the point of the thread, about the current gouging of Africa. Did you read the linked article? I'd like anyone who posts to say if they read it.
 

imported_inspire

Senior member
Jun 29, 2006
986
0
0
I think the primary point that Craig is getting at is that if we weren't fucking around with Africa, it'd probably be in better shape. It's difficult to self-regulate when somebody else keeps screwing with the environment. Regressing to isolationism, at this point though, is pretty infeasible. Capping interest is a step in the right direction.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.