'Outraged' Apple CEO Deems N.Y. Times' Exposé 'Offensive'

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shira

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2005
9,500
6
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http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/01/27/idUS366543082620120127

Does he think that people don't know what goes on in China? The bottom line is that compared to working conditions in western countries China is abysmal and everyone knows that..

but...I vote with my wallet and I support Apple and other companies who produce there...its up to the Chinese workers, government etc. to improve thier lot, if they feel the need...

he just struck me as a little pompous and I think his best approach would have been silence instead of claming he 'cares' about Chinese workers...

You obviously haven't read the full article. Apple's policy is that it forces its suppliers to supply complete, documented information on costs: salaries, rents, cost of materials - everything. Then Apple tells the supplier how much it will pay per unit produced. The margins Apple gives to its suppliers are razor thin. The suppliers then "play" those narrow margins by forcing their workers to be on call 24 hours a day, to work 60+ hour weeks, to live 6 or 7 to a company-supplied room, and to maintain marginal workplace safety. The workers don't have much choice, since they can easily be replaced.

Apple, for its part, is clearly not serious about forcing its suppliers to shape up. Apple's stated policy is that they'll "fire" suppliers who don't do the right thing by their workers. But Apple has known about these conditions for years and has done nothing.

This isn't saying that Apple isn't the only company to take advantage of Chinese labor practices, but according to the article, it seems that Apple is the worst "enabler." Other companies apparently pay their suppliers more, on the understanding that the extra money will go entirely to improving the lot of their hourly workers. As far as I can tell, Apple is solely interested in maximizing its profits, and to hell with Chinese workers.

Don't get me wrong: Apple makes fantastic products. I own a Macbook Pro and an ipad, and I was considering moving to the next-generation iphone when it became available. But I've decided I'm not going to purchase any more Apple products until I hear credible reports that Apple is actually doing something about the reported problems.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,592
28,666
136
Imagine the positive publicity, goodwill and millions more in product sales Apple could realize by announcing, "We have made a mistake and are moving production of our products back to the good old USA."

There is potential here
 

Pliablemoose

Lifer
Oct 11, 1999
25,195
0
56
Let's see how many products you all own from the following companies, all outsourcing to Foxconn/Hon Hai Precision Industry Co., Ltd.

Hands anyone?

Acer Inc. (Taiwan)
Amazon.com (United States)
Apple Inc. (United States)
ASRock (Taiwan)
Asus (Taiwan)
Barnes & Noble (United States)
Cisco (United States)
Dell (United States)
EVGA Corporation (United States)
Hewlett-Packard (United States)
Intel (United States)
IBM (United States)
Lenovo (China)
Microsoft (United States)
MSI (Taiwan)
Motorola (United States)
Netgear (United States)
Nintendo (Japan)
Nokia (Finland)
Panasonic (Japan)
Samsung (South Korea)
Sharp (Japan)
Sony (Japan)
Sony Ericsson (Japan/Sweden)
Vizio (United States)
 

KlokWyze

Diamond Member
Sep 7, 2006
4,451
9
81
www.dogsonacid.com
Change title to: "Outraged plutocrat pissed off at NY times for doing some actual reporting"

hahahaha

How do other Asian country's factories compare in terms of safety and employee benefits? e.g., Singapore, South Korea, Japan, Taiwan, etc.? Is it all as "horrible" as China?
 

lothar

Diamond Member
Jan 5, 2000
6,674
7
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I'm never convinced about this.

Those big Chinese production lines are just assembling pre made parts. I've torn down and re built quite a few smart phones and they take very little labour/time to put together.

I'd imagine that the actual chip/PCB parts are pretty automated.

So given that they are very expensive gadgets that arent very hard to assemble I dont see why they couldnt do that in the west.
Let take Mexican President Vicente Fox statement on illegal immigrants in the US:
"Mexicans do jobs that even Blacks don't want to do."

The Chinese do jobs that even Westerners don't want to do.
There's nothing more to it.
 

lothar

Diamond Member
Jan 5, 2000
6,674
7
76
What I don't get is why Apple is pretty much the only company singled out for this? All those shitty products from Asus and Samsung are made just down the street and cost the same, but I don't see people bringing them up.
Now, I'm not saying Apple shouldn't improve working conditions at the factories, they are probably the only company that could to be honest. Why they don't is a mystery that probably only has a shitty answer.
Unlike the iPhone, my Samsung Galaxy S II says "Made in Korea".
 

janas19

Platinum Member
Nov 10, 2011
2,313
1
0
Let's see how many products you all own from the following companies, all outsourcing to Foxconn/Hon Hai Precision Industry Co., Ltd.

Hands anyone?

Acer Inc. (Taiwan)
Amazon.com (United States)
Apple Inc. (United States)
ASRock (Taiwan)
Asus (Taiwan)
Barnes & Noble (United States)
Cisco (United States)
Dell (United States)
EVGA Corporation (United States)
Hewlett-Packard (United States)
Intel (United States)
IBM (United States)
Lenovo (China)
Microsoft (United States)
MSI (Taiwan)
Motorola (United States)
Netgear (United States)
Nintendo (Japan)
Nokia (Finland)
Panasonic (Japan)
Samsung (South Korea)
Sharp (Japan)
Sony (Japan)
Sony Ericsson (Japan/Sweden)
Vizio (United States)

The companies which list Taiwan as their HQ, wouldn't be manufactured there too?
 

Wreckem

Diamond Member
Sep 23, 2006
9,461
996
126
Unlike the iPhone, my Samsung Galaxy S II says "Made in Korea".

Almost every part of a cellphone is manufactured in china.

But didn't you hear, Brazil is the new China. If Mexico could get its shit together, Mexico would be the new Brazil.
 

Franz316

Senior member
Sep 12, 2000
985
460
136
Does anyone have any idea how much electronics would cost if they were made here? Is it 50%, 30%, more?

I've been thinking of this lately and am interested just how artificially low our prices are. From toys to electronics and anything else made abroad.
 

Wreckem

Diamond Member
Sep 23, 2006
9,461
996
126
The companies which list Taiwan as their HQ, wouldn't be manufactured there too?

You do realize Foxconn itself is also a Tawainese company?

And Foxconn has plants all over the world in 3rd world countries, not just China. They also have hundreds of thousands of people wanting to apply to said manufacturing plants around the world.
 

JS80

Lifer
Oct 24, 2005
26,271
7
81
Imagine the positive publicity, goodwill and millions more in product sales Apple could realize by announcing, "We have made a mistake and are moving production of our products back to the good old USA."

There is potential here

Hahahahahahah loliberals
 

Wreckem

Diamond Member
Sep 23, 2006
9,461
996
126
And do y'all honestly think Pegatron, Flextronics or any of the other oem contract companies that rely heavily on chinese labor are any "better" than Foxconn?

They aren't and those 3 Companies probably have parts in or outright manufactured every electronics product you own.
 
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shira

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2005
9,500
6
81
Let's see how many products you all own from the following companies, all outsourcing to Foxconn/Hon Hai Precision Industry Co., Ltd.

Hands anyone?

Acer Inc. (Taiwan)
Amazon.com (United States)
Apple Inc. (United States)
ASRock (Taiwan)
Asus (Taiwan)
Barnes & Noble (United States)
Cisco (United States)
Dell (United States)
EVGA Corporation (United States)
Hewlett-Packard (United States)
Intel (United States)
IBM (United States)
Lenovo (China)
Microsoft (United States)
MSI (Taiwan)
Motorola (United States)
Netgear (United States)
Nintendo (Japan)
Nokia (Finland)
Panasonic (Japan)
Samsung (South Korea)
Sharp (Japan)
Sony (Japan)
Sony Ericsson (Japan/Sweden)
Vizio (United States)


Foxconn is obviously complicit in the abuse, but if you read the article, it seems clear that Apple's imposed pricing is more aggressive than that of most other companies that contract with Chinese manufacturers, and that makes a bad situation worse.
 

lothar

Diamond Member
Jan 5, 2000
6,674
7
76
Almost every part of a cellphone is manufactured in china.

But didn't you hear, Brazil is the new China. If Mexico could get its shit together, Mexico would be the new Brazil.
My battery is. The phone itself is not.
There is a difference between "Made in X" and "Assembled in X"

I thought Thailand and Vietnam were the new China, not Brazil?
Mexico? Who would want to go work in a Foxconn factory for $2/day when they can become a drug lord?
 

lothar

Diamond Member
Jan 5, 2000
6,674
7
76
Before everyone goes into a sob story about the plight of these workers you really don't understand unless you have lived outside the US and in a 2nd/3rd world country. What may seem abhorrent in the States may seem pretty nice if the choice is to work in a factory for long hours or starve in a rice field.
Working at a Foxconn factory in China is better than working at rice paddies in China. While the conditions at Foxconn factories are inhumane, it's still better than the rice paddies.

Those Foxconn workers are about to get replaced by robots and be sent back to the rice paddies to work.
Robots don't complain.
Robots don't demand higher wages.
Robots don't kill themselves.

http://www.economist.com/node/21525432
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/08/01/us-foxconn-robots-idUSTRE77016B20110801
http://techland.time.com/2011/11/09...ingdom-will-change-the-face-of-manufacturing/
 

Wreckem

Diamond Member
Sep 23, 2006
9,461
996
126
My battery is. The phone itself is not.
There is a difference between "Made in X" and "Assembled in X"

I thought Thailand and Vietnam were the new China, not Brazil?
Mexico? Who would want to go work in a Foxconn factory for $2/day when they can become a drug lord?

They were, now it is Brazil. And with it, probably highly automated plants. I mean $12billion in facilities with only 5,000 workers?
 
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lothar

Diamond Member
Jan 5, 2000
6,674
7
76
Imagine the positive publicity, goodwill and millions more in product sales Apple could realize by announcing, "We have made a mistake and are moving production of our products back to the good old USA."

There is potential here
Which would only lead to Apple selling the iPhone for $2,000 to protect their profit margin.
Tell me how that would translate to millions more products sold and more importantly, profits for their stockholders in both US and global markets.
 

Wreckem

Diamond Member
Sep 23, 2006
9,461
996
126
Imagine the positive publicity, goodwill and millions more in product sales Apple could realize by announcing, "We have made a mistake and are moving production of our products back to the good old USA."

There is potential here

If they ever did that everything would be automated.
 

Pliablemoose

Lifer
Oct 11, 1999
25,195
0
56
Foxconn is obviously complicit in the abuse, but if you read the article, it seems clear that Apple's imposed pricing is more aggressive than that of most other companies that contract with Chinese manufacturers, and that makes a bad situation worse.

By that logic, you should slap Apple products out of the hands of the offenders that dare purchase them.

What kills me about this BS, is that change is happening, it's just not fast enough for you.

Also, I'd bet that the NYT just lost it's unofficial leak status for Apple products...
 
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Ninjahedge

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2005
4,149
1
91
Yes. People will pay it so they charge it.

I know.

What I am saying is, if people are willing to pay for it, and they can AFFORD to have better working conditions for their staff and keep many portions (besides sales and advertising) domestic, what is with the greed factor?

Apple has always "felt" like the homey feel-good brand that would treat you right. This was never really proven in any way, but marketed fiercely for the past 10 years or so. Kind of the San-Fran/Seattle vibe rather than NY/LA.

Keeping the same (admittedly large) price point and reducing cost of manufacture is pure greed for a company that is already, illogically, set to become more valuable than EXXON MOBIL!!!!!


WTH?


Bizzaro confused is!!!!
 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,808
83
91
What I don't get is why Apple is pretty much the only company singled out for this? All those shitty products from Asus and Samsung are made just down the street and cost the same, but I don't see people bringing them up.

-because Apple just announced they're making billions in revenue, making them one of the biggest names

-because they're selling a luxury product

-because they try to present themselves as a company that cares about human rights and the environment
 

airdata

Diamond Member
Jul 11, 2010
4,987
0
0
How can they be outraged when they make products with near slave labor from materials that are harvested with slave and child labor?

How about throwing those chinese workers who are killing themselves an extra 50 cents per hour?