Out with the Old, in with the New!

[shadenone]

So my old rig is well over 5 years old. I built it off of a barebone set up I found on Newegg. It's been very good to me and it's lasted me for... well, around 5 years!
But it's old, it's out dated and I'm in desperate need of an upgrade.
So first, here's the specs of what I've been using:
-AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual core 5600+ 2.90 Ghz
-ACPI x86-based PC
-4 GB RAM DDR2
-ATI Radeon HD 4800
-Case is mid-tower (6.5"/15"/14" Thus the desire to get a bigger case as well!)

It's been good to me and I've been capable of playing most games on it with only slightly less than best quality.
Still, obviously, I'm in need of a new rig.
Problem is, I'm also short on funds. I won't give an exact range because I'm willing to eat Ramen or bread and water as long as it takes to get something better ASAP (The as-soon-as-possible is important. I can't be eating ramen for a year before I can afford it!). To give you an estimate, let's set it at under $300, if at all possible, please!

So what I'm looking for is mainly Motherboard and CPU (a larger case would be nice, but I'll deal until I can do better):

-I've got 8 GB DDR3 RAM (1333/1066 MHz) via sales already and my HDDs are more than adequate as far as space goes.
-I'd like to keep my video card for now, unless the on board is significantly better.
-I use a typical network card (mainly because the one on my motherboard is shot! [I told you I needed to replace it!]), so additional slots would help a lot!

What I know I don't know:
-I know I don't know the difference of the different slots (PCIe?)
-I have no idea how to Over Clock, but I'm willing to learn!
-Don't know what else to look for! I have vague understandings of a lot of stuff (cache for processors, quad over dual [duh], bus size, etc.), but the intimate knowledge of what's best, what's coming out, and so on is beyond me.


So, with all that in mind, could anyone help direct me to a good motherboard/CPU set up? Maybe a case as well? Obviously, I've been partial to AMD in the past, but I'm willing to look at Intel or anything other possibilities. My biggest reason for AMD has been the upgradability. I tend to switch certain parts out every few years, but since I'm replacing the brains and nervous system, as it were, I'm open to changing that stance on decent evidence.

I appreciate any and all help I could get! I've been through too many Google searches and after all of those searches, I'd still say I barely know more than I already knew!

Basic gist: ~$300; Motherboard and CPU; Case (optional)

Thanks in advance!

The Questionare:
1. What YOUR PC will be used for. That means what types of tasks you'll be performing. I mainly use my computer for gaming and everyday use. I'm going to school for Computer Programming though, so it's likely that I'll need a set up that can be upgraded easily as I get more and more into the advanced areas of programming.

2. What YOUR budget is. A price range is acceptable as long as it's not more than a 20% spread. As stated above, ~$300. I know it's not a lot to play with, but I'm not building entirely from scratch. I mainly need a motherboard and CPU.

3. What country YOU will be buying YOUR parts from. I live in Florida, USA. With the accessibility the internet provides, I'm willing to shop around just about anywhere, but that's all based on price.

4. IF YOU have a brand preference. That means, are you an Intel-Fanboy, AMD-Fanboy, ATI-Fanboy, nVidia-Fanboy, Seagate-Fanboy, WD-Fanboy, etc. I've used and am used to AMD and ATI products above and beyond anything else, but I heard they're not doing so hot right now. I'm more than open to using something else if it's a superior product.

5. If YOU intend on using any of YOUR current parts, and if so, what those parts are. Like I said, I've already got RAM, HDD, video card and (technically) case. I can also still use my power supply and all that. The only other thing I'm concerned about is if I'd need to pick up a new cooling unit as well as the CPU.


7. IF YOU plan on overclocking or run the system at default speeds. I've never learned how to OC, so default is most likely. I'm more than willing to learn how to overclock though!

8. What resolution will you be using? 1920 X 1080

9. WHEN do you plan to build it? As soon as possible. I'm willing to order parts yesterday, if I could!

X. Do you need to purchase any software to go with the system, such as Windows or Blu Ray playback software? No software is needed. For one, I'll be using my old HDDs, so I don't have to worry about reinstalling Windows. The only thing I'd have to worry about is the BIOS.

 

[riversend]

First, welcome to the forums.

If you could fill this sticky out, that would help consolidate your info and fill in some holes, such as do you have a transferable copy of Windows etc... Just edit your original post.

Do you live near a Microcenter?

What version of the 4800 do you have (4850, 4870)?

Assuming you have Windows already, and that your primary use is gaming, here is a possible use of $300:

MSI Z77A-G41 LGA 1155 Intel Z77 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard with UEFI BIOS ($60 AP AR)
i5 3570k ($220)

Total $280.

Drop down to a i5 3450 for $195 and you would have about $45 to put to a new case. Edit: Saw that Amazon has the i5 3470 for only $180, nice price.

What voltage is your DDR3?

 

[mfenn]

Agree with riversend for the most part. As for the case, what are you interested in? (Flashy looks, expansion room?) Keep in mind that your options are pretty limited at $50, so you can't get everything you want.

 

[shadenone]

I tried to include as much information as I could in my original post, so sorry that I missed some! I just copy/pasted the questionnaire to it, so hopefully that covers the bases.
As far as your other questions go:
-I live in Tampa, Florida and I've never heard of Mircocenter, so I'm going to assume I don't? I'll definitely take a look online and make sure, but I doubt it.
-It's been awhile since I purchased it, so I'm not quite sure. What I do know is that it's one of the later models (4890 I think?), it's a Sapphire card, and it's probably the only reason my computer has lasted as long as it has!
-If I'm correct, I believe my RAM is 1.5V. I found it on sale here recently and picked it up. It doesn't fit into my current motherboard (DDR2), but I held on to them because I planned to upgrade anyways.

Mfenn: My current case is just your standard midtower, but it's SO cramped! There's no wire management and to put in a HDD, I actually have to remove my cooling unit on my CPU! Heh, at this point, the case could have rainbows and fuzzy kittens on it as long as I've got space to work with!

Next, my questions:
As I said, I'm mostly familiar with AMD, so I want to make sure of a few things. The board looks exactly like what I'd need, but I heard that a lot of Intel stuff is only upgradable within the set of their families (like the i5 won't work with an i7 board and that type of thing). Is that even that big of a deal or is it something AMD fanboys say to try to scare people away from Intel? I doubt they're really all that different, but is there anything I should be aware of since I've not built with Intel products before? I know the i5 series has been out for a bit. How long before it becomes just crazy obsolete, like my current rig? I'm hoping to be able to upgrade again before it gets this bad again, but I don't want to HAVE to do so, just to have a workable computer.

Thanks for your help, guys! I already feel a lot better about this, as I felt like a numbed blind person; you're finding stuff, but you have no idea what it is!

 

[riversend]

I think you will be fine stretching any Ivy Bridge i5 for the next few years assuming that your usage does not change a whole lot and you remain generally satisified with slowly decreasing game settings as the system grows older.

I used my e6750 for five years, and probably could have stretched another year or two out of it in a similar usage situation (i.e. I would not have considered it "crazy obsolete" even after five years, but some folks here certainly would, that is a subjective assessment). I just upgraded this summer to an i5 3570k (running stock now, but have run it oc'd just to make sure no major issues later down the road with oc'ing). I had an AMD 5770, and in the past few weeks dropped in a 660 GTX, but again, could have waited but happened to have the resources to do the upgrade. All this at 1680x1050.

So, your resolution will be a bit more demanding, but not out of the league of continuing to stretch systems for a few years.

On the Intel side, they are on what is called a tick-tock cycle. So one major upgrade of the chipset and processor followed by a refresh (for instance Sandy Bridge and Ivy Bridge with LGA 1155 hardware). The next tick-tock cycle will change the hardware interface, and will occur in 2013 with Haswell. You could wait for Haswell, but while faster and more efficient it will not blow the doors off of comparable Ivy Bridge systems. No need to wait IMHO unless you know the benefits of the change to Haswell will directly impact work you are doing on your system. So while AMD is trying to maintain a better backward compatibility for hardware, there is not guarantee that a mobo you buy now will have the BIOS updates down the road to support a new processor 3-4 years from now. Or that bang for buck purposes it will even be worth tossing a new processor into the system rather than going with a new Intel CPU/mobo.

So, that is my rather simple understanding, I am sure someone more knowledgeable can correct me, and then we'll both learn something in the process. 😛

Buy your best bang for buck now, it will probably do you quite well for some time to come.

 

[bononos]

.....
It's been good to me and I've been capable of playing most games on it with only slightly less than best quality.
Still, obviously, I'm in need of a new rig.
Problem is, I'm also short on funds. I won't give an exact range because I'm willing to eat Ramen or bread and water as long as it takes to get something better ASAP (The as-soon-as-possible is important. I can't be eating ramen for a year before I can afford it!). To give you an estimate, let's set it at under $300, if at all possible, please!
........
........
X. Do you need to purchase any software to go with the system, such as Windows or Blu Ray playback software? No software is needed. For one, I'll be using my old HDDs, so I don't have to worry about reinstalling Windows. The only thing I'd have to worry about is the BIOS.

$300 for mb/cpu is a quite enough for a mid-high range build. Microcenter had a hot deal $99 2500k (cpu) recently but I see it now on their website as $159. A 3450/3470 is good as well.

Try to squeeze in a new case in your budget. 7.5" width or 8" will make things easier for tinkering around. Your old 4890 runs about as fast as a 5770 which is decent if you turn down the settings so you can keep for a while. It takes nearly 2x as much power as the newer 5770 though, thats how much things have changed.

You'll need to reinstall windows once you change the mb.

 

[shadenone]

$300 for mb/cpu is a quite enough for a mid-high range build. Microcenter had a hot deal $99 2500k (cpu) recently but I see it now on their website as $159. A 3450/3470 is good as well.

You'll need to reinstall windows once you change the mb.

Good to know! I was thinking of upgrading to Win8 anyways, but I don't know if I'll have the funds for it right away, but I still have my Win7, so that won't be a problem.

Riversend: I was checking the reviews on the board you linked and a lot of people sound like they're having issues with it. Have you (or anyone else) used this board and can confirm or deny the problems others seem to be having with it?

Also, I've been looking at cases on Newegg and it's difficult for me to tell much about them based off of the stats and the pictures alone. I'd like to get a full tower, since the mid towers seem to be a little cramped. Anyone have a good suggestion for a good case that's not an arm and a leg?
I'm looking to get everything probably later today, so I can still take advantage of the sales, so any last minute suggestions would be more than welcome! Thanks!

 

[riversend]

Overall most manufacturers for mobos appear to be in the same range for return rates of ~2%. However, from board to board those can be better or worse (in some cases quite a bit worse). While I do not have any specific knowledge of this board, MSI is a reputable brand (I am currently using an AsRock Z77 Pro3). Reviews on Newegg for mobos generally have no more than 4 eggs, so it is tough to tell which ones are truly the most reliable just from the site. In general, people with bad experiences will tend to report more than those with good experiences.

Regardless, you need to feel comfortable with your purchase. First, you need to let us know what CPU you would like to purchase, ranging from the i5 3570k (fully overclockable) to the i5 3450/3470. This will give a range of mobos to look at. For the 3570k a Z77 chipset is needed to take advantage of the OC, for the others you would do fine with a generally less expensive H77 or B75 chipset (no OC).

i5 3570k ($200 AP of a $20 gift card, you could apply to a mobo purchase to get the immediate savings, see mfenn's midrange guide for how)
or
i5 3470 ($185 at Amazon)

For overclock, go with the MSI I listed ($60) or this Biostar Z77 ($70 AR), or the AsRock Pro 3 ($95). For no OC you could use this AsRock H77 ($60) or this Biostar H77 ($50).

The lowest price options of the 3470 and the Biostar H77 come to a total of $235. That leaves $65 for a case, and maybe a few weeks of Ramen could net you some extra cash for a better case, for budget builders having a case with some legs is a good thing.

Edit: Some of the NZXT cases are 20% off today only with a promo code at Newegg. The Black Source 210 on mfenn's guide is not one of those, but is also only $55. A couple of options in your price range.

 

[shadenone]

Yeah, I don't hold too much to reviews, but it just seemed like a lot of people were having issues with that board. I figured I'd ask to be sure that that was the case.

I was actually looking at some of the NZXT cases. I really like the look of this one, especially if I could repaint it (either that or get an orange fan for the front and make it a portal theme case! 😛), but I'd like a window on the side, since I'd eventually love to really deck it out sometime! A bit more than I was expecting, but a good case could be a one time purchase.

I've never OC'ed before, so I don't know if I'd be comfortable doing that just yet. I am thinking of starving for a while and getting the 3570k. I'd rather get that one so if I can learn how to OC later, I'll have a better CPU to do it with.

Where's Mfenn's guide? Is that the sticky on this page? Just want to be sure I'm looking in the right spot. I'll take a look through it and see what I can find!

 

[Sheep221]

My advice is, you wont need to spend on unlocked CPU as it is not only stuff to consider when overclocking, if you want to achieve decent OC than you need to get also better motherboard, better cooling, better graphics, if you want it to improve your game experience, higher performance PSU and more expensive RAM. Which would rise your rig to maybe $700 or more.

The decent computer for $300 would be

Intel Core i3-3225 - $145
Asrock H77M mATX desktop board - $60
G-Skill 8GB 2x4GB kit, 1600 DDR3 F3-12800CL9D-8GBRL - $25

$230, you still can spend $70 on new case

Although the i3 is dual core, it is a very powerful processor and good for gaming as well.

 

[riversend]

OP is a long time system user, he wants some endurance. I think saving for the more powerful i5 is a good idea, but the i3 is not a bad option, just not as good for the long run IMHO.

Here is the link to mfenn's guide on the front of Gen Hardware.

 

[mfenn]

Mfenn: My current case is just your standard midtower, but it's SO cramped! There's no wire management and to put in a HDD, I actually have to remove my cooling unit on my CPU! Heh, at this point, the case could have rainbows and fuzzy kittens on it as long as I've got space to work with!

What you're describing here is NOT typical of a mid-tower case. To me, it sounds more like you have a mini-tower. Also, the terms mid-tower and full tower are completely blurred as to be useless. One manufacturer's full tower may very well be smaller than another manufacturer's mid-tower. You have to look at the actual dimensions.

I really doubt that you need a big full tower case for your machine. A full tower with the parts that riverend and I are suggesting will just be a big empty box.

. I really like the look of this one, especially if I could repaint it (either that or get an orange fan for the front and make it a portal theme case! 😛)

The Phantom is fair to middling, but is also out of your budget by about $30 (assuming $200 CPU and $50 mobo). For $40, you can get the white Source 210 Elite. If you're OK with increasing your budget by $30, you can get the Corsair 300R. Both have cable management behind the mobo tray, but the 300R has better airflow and (subjectively) looks.

 

[shadenone]

Riversend is 100% right, Sheep. I have a tendency to upgrade and then forget about all the other stuff I want to do to my comp, which is entirely my own fault and slightly infuriating to me, but I know myself well enough to plan for that eventuality.
Mfenn: I think you're probably right about my case. I just did a quick check and my case measures 14/15/6.5, which when I looked up a few minis on NE were about the same. I just assumed what I had was a slightly smaller mid because the dimensions on a lot of the mids seem only marginally larger. I'm going to have to give those mid towers another look then.

The case is the last thing I have to find. I feel confident after all this that I'm not going to go wrong with the i5 3570k and the MSI mobo, so those are pretty well set in stone. I'm sure I'm going to go over a bit on my intended price range, but I'd rather make sure I get quality rather than have to replace everything again before too long.

On a side note (for later on upgrading), how much RAM would this set up be able to handle before it bottlenecks? I'm putting in 8G for now, but if I've got some free funds later on, I might buy some more if it's worth it. Probably a stupid question, but since I have you guys right here, I'm too lazy to look it up for myself! 😛

Thanks so much for your help everyone, especially you, Riversend and Mfenn. You guys have really helped me figure everything out and have turned this process from a begrudging chore into a much more relaxed and fun experience! I'm actually looking forward to it now, so thanks for everything.

 

[Sheep221]

On a side note (for later on upgrading), how much RAM would this set up be able to handle before it bottlenecks? I'm putting in 8G for now, but if I've got some free funds later on, I might buy some more if it's worth it. Probably a stupid question, but since I have you guys right here, I'm too lazy to look it up for myself! 😛

RAM is so cheap today, even cheaper than last year, I have 16 Gigs of RAM while I only needed 8 at the time of purchase, the only reason I bought 16 is so low price that it's better to get it now and have it than pay higher price when you need more DDR3 RAM when it will succeeded by DDR4. So if you going to get some dollars lying around, get some more RAM, it's worth it.

Yesterday I bought 3x2GB Kingston kit for $13.

 

[shadenone]

RAM is so cheap today, even cheaper than last year, I have 16 Gigs of RAM while I only needed 8 at the time of purchase, the only reason I bought 16 is so low price that it's better to get it now and have it than pay higher price when you need more DDR3 RAM when it will succeeded by DDR4. So if you going to get some dollars lying around, get some more RAM, it's worth it.

Good call, Sheep. I got a great deal on the PNY RAM I have for this upgrade, so it's at least good enough for now, but I've heard good things about the G.Skill brand, so I'll probably purchase a better brand of RAM eventually anyway. I'll definitely try to get it while the getting is good! Thanks!

So I went far more over budget than I hoped, but thanks to you guys, I feel confident that I'm getting the most bang for my buck on it, so I'll comfortably eat ramen as I play with my new comp once it gets here!

Here's what I ended up with, so let me know what you think and where my next set of upgrades is likely to come from:

Case: Corsair 400R. It's not extremely flashy on the outside and I would've loved to have a window, but it fits my needs perfectly and my biggest concern was cable management, so thanks Mfenn for pointing me to it!
Mobo: MSI Z77. You convinced me to not only give Intel a shot, Riversend, but also helped me feel confident that this board isn't going to die right after I got it. It's an awesome price and has everything I need, so thank you.
CPU: Intel i5-3570k. Ugh. After all the worrying and hassle I went through, I get ready to make my purchases and NewEgg tells me they ran out of stock on these chips! After reading more and more on this chip, I just couldn't bring myself to give it up. It sounded like a perfect fit for me and it'll challenge me to learn how to OC, which I'd love to learn. So rather than downgrade to the 3470, I sucked it up and bought it at $219.00 on Amazon.*
RAM: 8GB DDR3 PNY, 1333MHz. I got 2x4g sticks for just under $25.00 awhile back, so figured I'd put them to good use. Thanks Sheep for the advice on upgrades!
Video: My Sapphire 48(90?). From what Bononos was saying, I think it'll still be usable for a while. Maybe I'll look into this whole crossfire bit in the future, but for now it works.
Hard Drives: One 30GB and one 1TB drives, both SATA. If it seems strange that I add that, it's cause I bought the TB drive after finding out my old drive (from my computer before this one, so yeah... OLD) wasn't going to work. I've been using the 30G for Windows and such and leaving anything else, like games, movies, music, etc. on the TB.
PSU: Generic 550W. Nothing special, but it's been more than good enough so far.

So I went over my budget by $40.00 (Damn you NewEgg for running out of stock!), but I feel very comfortable with the upgrades I'll be getting out of this and you guys are the main reason for that. I really appreciate all the help you've given. The fact that you guys have been so helpful and caring about my situation has made me a fan of this forum. I'm going to try to keep up with the changing times and this forum just so I can try to repay your kindness by hopefully helping someone else in the future.
In other words, you've converted me quite overwhelmingly and I'm happy to join the ranks! Thanks so much for all your help and I'll let you know how it runs once I get everything in!



*As a side note, why hasn't Micro Center taken over the globe yet? Seriously, they have this same CPU for roughly $40.00 cheaper than anywhere else! You'd think they'd be able to open stores EVERYWHERE if they're underselling the competition that much! When I saw the price, I started calculating the cost of gas to make the trip!

 

[T_Yamamoto]

Those deals for Micro center are in store only. They're not here in the south, mainly west coast and up north.

 

[riversend]

Glad it worked out. The beauty is that whether you went 3570k or 3470 you will have a great CPU that will do some good work for years to come. Hope the build goes well! And the 4890 should hold up long enough for you to scrape together cash (maybe post holidays?) for a GPU swap.

 

[mfenn]

Video: My Sapphire 48(90?). From what Bononos was saying, I think it'll still be usable for a while. Maybe I'll look into this whole crossfire bit in the future, but for now it works.

Don't worry about trying to Crossfire something that old unless you found one on the side of the road or something. You'll be better off buying a new card when the time comes.

*As a side note, why hasn't Micro Center taken over the globe yet? Seriously, they have this same CPU for roughly $40.00 cheaper than anywhere else! You'd think they'd be able to open stores EVERYWHERE if they're underselling the competition that much! When I saw the price, I started calculating the cost of gas to make the trip!

Don't forget taxes! They can also eat into a good chunk of the savings.

So I went over my budget by $40.00 (Damn you NewEgg for running out of stock!), but I feel very comfortable with the upgrades I'll be getting out of this and you guys are the main reason for that. I really appreciate all the help you've given. The fact that you guys have been so helpful and caring about my situation has made me a fan of this forum. I'm going to try to keep up with the changing times and this forum just so I can try to repay your kindness by hopefully helping someone else in the future.
In other words, you've converted me quite overwhelmingly and I'm happy to join the ranks! Thanks so much for all your help and I'll let you know how it runs once I get everything in!

Glad it worked out for you. 🙂

 

[shadenone]

So it's been a while, but I wanted to come back and let you guys know that I finally got everything up and running and I'm VERY happy with it! I was able to route everything behind the motherboard except on cable for the psu, so you can guess what's going to get replaced next! 🙂 I ran into a problem with the cpu fan (the first one didn't work), but I got the replacement in within a week and now it's running perfectly! Thanks again for all your help guys! It really looks amazing too!

 

[mfenn]

Glad you like it! You don't really need to replace the PSU just for the EPS 12V cable, you can just get an extension. It's pretty common to need one if you route it behind the motherboard tray.

 

[riversend]

:thumbsup:Great! Should treat you well for some time, you will appreciate the GPU upgrade down the line.

 

[shadenone]

Mfenn: That's a MUCH cheaper and effective option! Thanks! Heck, I'm going to get that right now, simply because I can! 🙂 Plus, I'm seriously looking at upgrading the heatsink as it is and I can't do that with the cable where it is!

Riversend: It'll still be a few months before I can even think of upgrading my GPU (though the performance of all my games recently have been outstandingly better), but any suggestions on cards as they are now? That'll give me a benchmark for later on!

Again, you guys have been awesome, so thanks for everything.

 

[mfenn]

The card to get really depends on how much money you want to spend. There are reasonable gaming options between $175 (7850) all the way up to $350 (7970 or GTX 670).