Our generation's lack of work ethic and money skills.

[Nintendesert]

your all going to be out worked and out performed by the world wide educated merchant class that is rapidly over taking your jobs.

And how does that personally affect you?

 

[IndyColtsFan]

I think you need a balance, like pretty much everything else in life.

You should put in your allotted time and be willing to help out in emergencies, but don't make yourself a doormat who will drop all of your night/weekend/vacation plans to earn your manager a bigger bonus.

Life is about more than just working, but you need to do well enough in your job to keep it and possibly continue advancing, if you want more responsibility and more earning potential. Just don't get into the mode where you're addicted to working and you think that you will ever actually see an equivalent benefit for constant 80-100 hour work weeks.

Well said.

About your second point about being a doormat to get your manager a bigger bonus -- that was me a few years ago. Time and time again, my boss would come to me at 3:00 PM or 4:00 PM needing business case justifications, project budgets/costs, and case analysis reports done by 8:00 AM the next morning so he could present them to his boss. Without fail, I'd work on them until 8:00 or 9:00 and have them to him in time and without fail, I'd never hear the results of my work for weeks, if at all. I asked once and he basically told me he never presented my work.

So I got fed up and the next time he came to me late in the day and frantically needed a report by 8:00 AM the next morning, I told him I couldn't do it. He was shocked and asked me when I could do it. I told him it would take me until the end of the day the following day, maybe the day after. 😀 After I did that once or twice, he never pulled that crap again.

 

[manimal]

those without a rudder are prone to list.


Kids have no idea what the world is like and the first 10 years or so are painful for them and their employeers.


Last week I had to fire two guys for loafing on jobs. They did good work when watched but when they were on their own they didnt get shit done.

On to the next....

 

[SS Trooper]

I've been debating this for a while now, I feel like an idiot doing what I was taught was the correct way.

I used to work at a Pizza place from about 15-24 years old. At the end, it was nothing more than a job where I hung out with my friends while doing some task that required no thought or focus. I left that job thinking I needed to start my career.

Several years later I'm living pay check to pay check to afford my new car, my house, and life. It sucks. I always had tons of cash when I worked at the pizza place and my bills weren't that much cheaper at that time. Meanwhile those friends from the Pizza place are still working there, they are driving their new cars, and throwing parties at their houses. I left and took on a real job, and they stayed at a freaking pizza place, and we ended up in the same place.

The big differences are insurance and credit rating, but right now, neither of those things matter much to them. Of course they have no retirement, and have hit a hard ceiling as far as income is concerned, but they aren't "working". Seems like they made the right choice.

In my example I do not work much overtime, I just have a job that requires effort compared to one that doesn't. All I hear about is how my retirement won't even be there when I try to use it anyway, so what's the point. And that's the point of the arguement where I go F**k it, and just do my job.

 

[SagaLore]

your all going to be out worked and out performed by the world wide educated merchant class that is rapidly over taking your jobs.

Does the world wide educated merchant class know how to use proper grammar?

 

[Franz316]

I think the under 30 generation has shifted it's values more to enjoying life to over working. That doesn't mean you don't have a worth ethic.

I've read a lot of articles about elderly people on their deathbed and they all wish they hadn't wasted as much time at work. They regretted not spending more time with their families and enjoying the small things in life.

And that 401k you are worried about could be worth half or zero when you wake up tomorrow, not to mention the economy is probably going to look very differently in 30-40 years.

 

[DrunkenSano]

If you want to be a 9-to-5'er, that's fine, but don't complain when you get passed up for promotions or don't get as big of a raise as someone that makes their job their priority.

We don't work 100 hrs weeks, but if a project comes up that requires us to complete it by a certain time and will require OT, you better freakin' put in the time. I don't care what's going on in your personal life, that's none on my business. What I do care about is us hitting our deadline. It your JOB to do what is required. If you don't like it, go find another job that's less demanding.

What I find is that the people that won't work the OT when offered, are the people that complain about money the most. If you don't want to work the OT, I don't want to hear your BS that you are having money problems.

If you think that working overtime means a big promotion and pay raise, you have fooled yourself. These days, working overtime means your bosses will expect you to keep working the extra hours as standard.

Will you get a promotion? Yes, but today, a promotion isn't like what it was. It does not mean a big pay raise, it does not mean job security, it does not mean a better job. What a promotion means today is probably double the workload (basically they promote you so you are responsible of doing all the work you've been doing while crunching overtime), and a small rise in your salary.

You get no job security, they will easily fire you the next day if it will make their margins better just like before you started working overtime. These days, it's more of a salary slave than wage slave, people who work salaries are being dicked over completely because the rich ass CEOs know they can get away with it, with unemployment being the way it is.

So, if I'm gonna take it up the ass from some rich corporate prick, I'll do it 45 hours a week, not 60 or 80.

 

[Jadow]

What I'm surprised by is the laziness and ineptitude of people just 10 or so years younger than me.

Seems like GenX is pretty hard working, but the younger ones are a bunch of bums.

 

[SP33Demon]

I've been debating this for a while now, I feel like an idiot doing what I was taught was the correct way.

I used to work at a Pizza place from about 15-24 years old. At the end, it was nothing more than a job where I hung out with my friends while doing some task that required no thought or focus. I left that job thinking I needed to start my career.

Several years later I'm living pay check to pay check to afford my new car, my house, and life. It sucks. I always had tons of cash when I worked at the pizza place and my bills weren't that much cheaper at that time. Meanwhile those friends from the Pizza place are still working there, they are driving their new cars, and throwing parties at their houses. I left and took on a real job, and they stayed at a freaking pizza place, and we ended up in the same place.

The big differences are insurance and credit rating, but right now, neither of those things matter much to them. Of course they have no retirement, and have hit a hard ceiling as far as income is concerned, but they aren't "working". Seems like they made the right choice.

In my example I do not work much overtime, I just have a job that requires effort compared to one that doesn't. All I hear about is how my retirement won't even be there when I try to use it anyway, so what's the point. And that's the point of the arguement where I go F**k it, and just do my job.

So you're saying that pizza delivery guys are making more than you? What the hell do you do?

Also, if you really think they made the right choice then why not quit your job and just deliver pizzas? There's still time.

 

[SP33Demon]

Talking with upper management with a friend (call him Bart) who is a gen Y executive, he said they don't even look at GPA but whether the guy can do the job or not and if he likes them or not. Mainly because I said I wouldn't hire John McCain for a job b/c he finished last in his college vs Obama finishing Magna Cum Laude. Bart said none of that matters at his company when they hire which is basically based on the lowest common denomination (a degree where GPA doesn't matter) and if he likes them or not. I could understand if it was sales related where personality matters more, but this is fucking IT. It's the state of these Gen Y upper management execs these days.

 

[SillyOReilly]

Our generation is lack of grammar skills

 

[nageov3t]

my ex-boss was huge into hiring the guys with the most impressive-sounding resumes and it never really seemed to work out. seemed to result in junior-level techs who were either overqualified (and definitely had a "too cool for school" attitude about it) or great at BS'ing on their resume and/or collecting certs but unable to work independently.

personally, I've had great luck with trusting my gut. I'd rather a guy with a strong work-ethic, a good head on his shoulders, and easy to train (depending on the position, obviously)

 

[SS Trooper]

So you're saying that pizza delivery guys are making more than you? What the hell do you do?

Also, if you really think they made the right choice then why not quit your job and just deliver pizzas? There's still time.

Yeah pizza delivery can pay big bucks, my friend was gloating that he took 4 deliveries and made $45 dollars on them.

That's my point, why would this generation want to stop slinging pizza to start a career. It's easier and their life doesn't lag that much behind a career guy. I'm busting my ass now for an idea that I will be making more money later.

I work as a team lead for tech support for a small building ~500 people, but hopefully I'll be CCNA certified within the month. It's really not as close as I made it sound pay wise, but it's close enough to raise the question.

 

[KeithP]

I worked as much as I could,, tons of overtime, even unpaid sometimes, I learned that after getting let go from that company after 4 years of doing so much for them that my free time is worth infinitely more.

I think most people under value their free time. However, there is something to be said for working hard and saving your money to enable an earlier and financially independent retirement rather than working until your are 70-75 and barely scraping by on a low fixed income.

-KeithP

 

[Vdubchaos]

Who is worse, a slacker or a workaholic?

Neither if you ask me.

I think more and more companies are using employees on the basis of "you should be lucky to even have a job".

SCREW THAT

I work 8-4 and not a min longer. I've seen WAY too many people put in extra effort that was never appreciated AND in the end they ended up getting used.

Once you do it ONCE, they expect it!!!

I've learned that lesson LONG LONG ago.

My job gets 8 hours of my time. When I leave I press the "no work" button and don't give it another thought until 8am of the next morning.

Also there is WAY too many companies out there that have SO much bureaucracy and BS. If there is a TRUE need for extra help, I will know it, but there is NO way in hell I will sacrifice my private life/time because of mis management or other BS companies does to itself (or even unconsidered clients, which ALWAYS seems to be the case)

🙂

OP, Take your Salary and divide it by 52 weeks THEN by 100 hours. There is your hourly pay buddy.

I think you need a balance, like pretty much everything else in life.

You should put in your allotted time and be willing to help out in emergencies, but don't make yourself a doormat who will drop all of your night/weekend/vacation plans to earn your manager a bigger bonus.

Life is about more than just working, but you need to do well enough in your job to keep it and possibly continue advancing, if you want more responsibility and more earning potential. Just don't get into the mode where you're addicted to working and you think that you will ever actually see an equivalent benefit for constant 80-100 hour work weeks.

Well said.

As I like to say "NOTHING is good when taken to the extreme"

 

[SP33Demon]

Yeah pizza delivery can pay big bucks, my friend was gloating that he took 4 deliveries and made $45 dollars on them.

That's my point, why would this generation want to stop slinging pizza to start a career. It's easier and their life doesn't lag that much behind a career guy. I'm busting my ass now for an idea that I will be making more money later.

I work as a team lead for tech support for a small building ~500 people, but hopefully I'll be CCNA certified within the month. It's really not as close as I made it sound pay wise, but it's close enough to raise the question.

I see what you mean, stress really makes you think about doing jobs like pizza delivery because it's way more relaxing. However, I think you made the right decision and your choice will pay off in the end where you will have a much higher ceiling cap and probably more job satisfaction at the end of the day. But everyone is different.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

If you want to be a 9-to-5'er, that's fine, but don't complain when you get passed up for promotions or don't get as big of a raise as someone that makes their job their priority.

Bwahahahaha <breathe> bwahahahahaha!

I worked my ass off with long hours week after week after week. I got top reviews and decent raises, but I never got a promotion or a major out-of-cycle salary bump to make up for it. Working long hours guarantees you NOTHING.

My job is not the priority in my life, and it will never be. With few exceptions, those who make their job their priority in life are suckers.

We don't work 100 hrs weeks, but if a project comes up that requires us to complete it by a certain time and will require OT, you better freakin' put in the time. I don't care what's going on in your personal life, that's none on my business.

We all have projects to complete and may have to occasionally put in more time, but if it is a regular occurrence, you're doing something wrong. You're either a) An extremely inefficient worker or b) a doormat.

What I do care about is us hitting our deadline. It your JOB to do what is required. If you don't like it, go find another job that's less demanding.

What I find is that the people that won't work the OT when offered, are the people that complain about money the most. If you don't want to work the OT, I don't want to hear your BS that you are having money problems.

Ok, let's make sure we're clear here. There is a HUGE difference between working extra hours and getting paid for OT and working extra hours and not getting paid for OT (aka, salaried). If I were not salaried and got paid for OT, I would work longer hours. Otherwise, no, I am not doing it.

 

[nageov3t]

I work 8-4 and not a min longer. I've seen WAY too many people put in extra effort that was never appreciated AND in the end they ended up getting used.

within reason, there's something to be said for maintaining good relationships with bosses/coworkers.

a few months ago, an ex-coworker of mine was applying for a job at the company where I am now. my boss asked me for my thoughts on him, and he was more or less blackballed for being one of those guys who's perfectly adequate on the job but can never be expected to go an inch above and beyond.

 

[ShawnD1]

Not even slightly, most are far better off and know more about finance than those who are older.

My work is a pretty even split between people who are 20-30 and people who are 60-70. It seems like both are fairly similar. Some of the young people spend money they don't have. Some of the old people are working post-retirement because they want to maintain their super high standard of living. I think those two are basically the same. Some of the old people are pretty tight with money; they wear clothes that are 10 year olds, they live in a modest house, and they only work post-retirement because they're bored out of their minds. There are also young people who are fairly tight with money, don't drink or party, and they put all of their money into paying off debts.

but this is fucking IT. It's the state of these Gen Y upper management execs these days.

You should have learned a long time ago that GPA is absolutely meaningless. There were quite a few times in engineering where we had to do a bit of quick research and give a 10+ minute presentation followed by Q and A. A group would give a really good presentation about something that seemed very interesting, so I would ask questions. Sometimes it was just simple stuff like "what's a thyristor?" and I get nothing but blank stairs. You guys mentioned thyristors several times in your presentation and you have no idea what that means? Then why did you include it? Idiots.

 

[shortylickens]

Does the world wide educated merchant class know how to use proper grammar?

No.
They'll write superior grammar software and it wont matter.

 

[kranky]

That's my point, why would this generation want to stop slinging pizza to start a career. It's easier and their life doesn't lag that much behind a career guy. I'm busting my ass now for an idea that I will be making more money later.

I work as a team lead for tech support for a small building ~500 people, but hopefully I'll be CCNA certified within the month. It's really not as close as I made it sound pay wise, but it's close enough to raise the question.

But you just pointed out the huge difference. You are working hard because there is an opportunity to make more later. They are making roughly the same but they do not have an opportunity to make more.

I don't see how you can compare a job with zero opportunity to a job with potential if both jobs pay the same. Clearly you are in a better position. OK, pizza is easier. Is that the critical issue? Finding the easiest job that pays survival wages? Does the pizza place furnish the car? And pay for any repairs? What about the hours? Is working evenings and weekend nights a benefit compared to a day job in an office?

 

[Vdubchaos]

within reason, there's something to be said for maintaining good relationships with bosses/coworkers.

Correct

a few months ago, an ex-coworker of mine was applying for a job at the company where I am now. my boss asked me for my thoughts on him, and he was more or less blackballed for being one of those guys who's perfectly adequate on the job but can never be expected to go an inch above and beyond.

If my salary is not expected to rise an inch above and beyond, my time doesn't either.

🙂

Again based on what I have seen (over 10 years in pro career, 3 different careers and over 15 major corps) most employers are busy exploiting their workers. Once exploited, expectation is set for good.

 

[SP33Demon]

My work is a pretty even split between people who are 20-30 and people who are 60-70. It seems like both are fairly similar. Some of the young people spend money they don't have. Some of the old people are working post-retirement because they want to maintain their super high standard of living. I think those two are basically the same. Some of the old people are pretty tight with money; they wear clothes that are 10 year olds, they live in a modest house, and they only work post-retirement because they're bored out of their minds. There are also young people who are fairly tight with money, don't drink or party, and they put all of their money into paying off debts.


You should have learned a long time ago that GPA is absolutely meaningless. There were quite a few times in engineering where we had to do a bit of quick research and give a 10+ minute presentation followed by Q and A. A group would give a really good presentation about something that seemed very interesting, so I would ask questions. Sometimes it was just simple stuff like "what's a thyristor?" and I get nothing but blank stairs. You guys mentioned thyristors several times in your presentation and you have no idea what that means? Then why did you include it? Idiots.

GPA is overrated but I wouldn't say "absolutely meaningless". You don't have to be Einstein but at least finish above the freaking bottom 5-10% of your class (John McCain). That shows that the guy didn't give 2 shits about his education which says a lot about them. A C average isn't that hard; it's just this slacker-ass mentality that makes me sick. If you can honestly say you'd hire someone who graduated with a D or F average then you're.full.of.shit. Or you work for a company that is (most likely) going.to.shit.

 

[pauldun170]

Just to jump on the "Generation 2.5468 complains about Generation 3.45655B" bandwagon...

We didn't have fancy cell phone plans or co-signed "car payments" to blow all our money on.

We were able to get by with much less because there was a lot less to blow your cash on.

Did my generation save back when we were young?
Not while we were young and single...
Once you found a girl to knock up or co-workers made fun of you for living at your parents house, then you began to save up.

If we had all the toys, financial products, interest rates and gadgets kids today have we'd probably have the same attitude.

This message brought to you by the end of cassete tape generation...the one the vinyl generation used to complain about.

 

[PowerYoga]

Enjoy your 100 hour weeks, I'll be busy having a life.