Our era's American civil rights issue: A milestone on gay discrimination

[Amused]

I take exception to people comparing being a minority to being gay. My being black has not got nothing to do with my behavior. Two guys or two women sleeping with each other is an act of behavior not one of "civil rights". It makes me sick to my stomach for people to say because I am black I should support gay marraige. And I seriously seriously doubt MLK would have supported gay marriage.

Their behavior is due to inherent traits. Just as your skin color and features are.

One cannot choose who they are attracted to anymore than they can choose the color of their skin. Period.

 

[CallMeJoe]

I take exception to people comparing being a minority to being gay. My being black has not got nothing to do with my behavior. Two guys or two women sleeping with each other is an act of behavior not one of "civil rights". It makes me sick to my stomach for people to say because I am black I should support gay marraige. And I seriously seriously doubt MLK would have supported gay marriage.

You may be right; even as admirable a man as Doctor King surely had his own unreasonable prejudices.

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

It's a good thing the Constitution trumps majority rule, or the next thing you know the majority will vote to censor your speech.

- wolf

Please point out where in the Constitution it says anything about marraige or sexual preference.

 

[classy]

Their behavior is due to inherent traits. Just as your skin color and features are.

One cannot choose who they are attracted to anymore than they can choose the color of their skin. Period.

That is your opinion. Behavior is not inherent. I am married and have a desire to sleep with other women, but I don't. Why? Because it is not the right behavior. The excuse you use is the same every drug dealer in America uses to sell drugs. How about people who are pedophiles? They use the excuse I can't help it. Those having sex with animals? They use the same damn excuse. Now I am not saying a gay couple is anything like those two examples, but we all have to accept certain circumstances of being born as we are. And being gay may be a civil rights issue but it damn sure ain't the same as blacks or womens rights.

 

[Craig234]

I take exception to people comparing being a minority to being gay. My being black has not got nothing to do with my behavior. Two guys or two women sleeping with each other is an act of behavior not one of "civil rights". It makes me sick to my stomach for people to say because I am black I should support gay marraige. And I seriously seriously doubt MLK would have supported gay marriage.

And blacks, who have been the victims of such huge bigotry, are themselves well above average in the rate they are bigots against blacks.

There's a phrase, 'distinction without a difference', and you are doing that in fixating on the 'behavioral' aspect of homosexuality - ignoring the *condition* aspect of homosexuality that leads to behavior, not to mention ignoring the question of why you are entitled to discriminate even if it WERE behavioral.

As a black, you SHOULD be especially sensitized to bigotry - but that's not the way it works, is it, as you put the mantle of bigot on and it fits quite well.

And while people might project their own views on to King, one person we can listed to is Coretta King, who said she thinks he would have supported gay marriage equality.

For too long, our nation has tolerated the insidious form of discrimination against this group of Americans, who have worked as hard as any other group, paid their taxes like everyone else, and yet have been denied equal protection under the law...I believe that freedom and justice cannot be parceled out in pieces to suit political convenience. My husband, Martin Luther King, Jr. said, "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." On another occasion he said, "I have worked too long and hard against segregated public accommodations to end up segregating my moral concern. Justice is indivisible." Like Martin, I don't believe you can stand for freedom for one group of people and deny it to others.

But this isn't about what King, who happened to be a 1960's Baptist Minister's, opinion would be. It's about right and wrong.

After all, whoever King would agree with, should the issue be decided by the other side pointing out his adulterous behavior 'discrediting' him?

The simple fact is, based on your post, is that you are hugely ignorant about homosexuality, and that ignorance feeds bigotry - the same same kind of bigotry many have had about blacks.

Race and sexual orientation don't have to be exactly the same thing for ignorance and bigotry to be the same.

 

[Amused]

That is your opinion. Behavior is not inherent. I am married and have a desire to sleep with other women, but I don't. Why? Because it is not the right behavior. The excuse you use is the same every drug dealer in America uses to sell drugs. How about people who are pedophiles? They use the excuse I can't help it. Those having sex with animals? They use the same damn excuse. Now I am not saying a gay couple is anything like those two examples, but we all have to accept certain circumstances of being born as we are. And being gay may be a civil rights issue but it damn sure ain't the same as blacks or womens rights.

Okay. Choose to be gay.

Oh, wait. You married who and what you're attracted to: A woman.

Being gay, or straight is INHERENT. Every bit as much as being black or white.

And I'll remember your comments here when we discuss gansta/ghetto culture and you call me a racist for criticizing people who adopt self destructive and self deprecating lifestyles and cultures.

You're right, behavior is NOT inherent. But who and what you are attracted to IS inherent. And being gay/straight is NOT a behavior, it is who and what you're attracted to. ACTING on that attraction is behavior.

 

[Craig234]

Please point out where in the Constitution it says anything about marraige or sexual preference.

It doesn't say anything about people name Jeffrey either, but a law denying rights to someone for being named "Jeffrey" is unconstitutional.

 

[Craig234]

That is your opinion. Behavior is not inherent. I am married and have a desire to sleep with other women, but I don't. Why? Because it is not the right behavior. The excuse you use is the same every drug dealer in America uses to sell drugs. How about people who are pedophiles? They use the excuse I can't help it. Those having sex with animals? They use the same damn excuse. Now I am not saying a gay couple is anything like those two examples, but we all have to accept certain circumstances of being born as we are. And being gay may be a civil rights issue but it damn sure ain't the same as blacks or womens rights.

The point is equality. Gays are your equal, whether you like it or not because of bigotry.

They have the same right to marry as you. And they have the same obligation not to sleep around with everyone they'd like to because of the commitment to their spouse the same as you have that restriction. They are NOT obligated to refrain from relationships and sex and marriage more than you are to those you are attracted to because they're gay, any more than you should have the law restrict you because you are black, or other attribute.

The gay civil rights issue IS equal to the black or women's civil rights issues. And it's nothing but your bigotry saying their rights are worth less than yours.

 

[DanDaManJC]

Unfortunately PokerGuy's misguided notion that there's a vast anti-Christian conspiracy in the liberal courts is all too prevalent in fundamentalist christian circles.

Iono what to say... they really think Satan's out to get them :-/, it's sad really. Continually living a life of fear holding on to die to escape the only world you really know exists (ok that's debatable too but meh)

 

[classy]

And blacks, who have been the victims of such huge bigotry, are themselves well above average in the rate they are bigots against blacks.

There's a phrase, 'distinction without a difference', and you are doing that in fixating on the 'behavioral' aspect of homosexuality - ignoring the *condition* aspect of homosexuality that leads to behavior, not to mention ignoring the question of why you are entitled to discriminate even if it WERE behavioral.

As a black, you SHOULD be especially sensitized to bigotry - but that's not the way it works, is it, as you put the mantle of bigot on and it fits quite well.

And while people might project their own views on to King, one person we can listed to is Coretta King, who said she thinks he would have supported gay marriage equality.



But this isn't about what King, who happened to be a 1960's Baptist Minister's, opinion would be. It's about right and wrong.

After all, whoever King would agree with, should the issue be decided by the other side pointing out his adulterous behavior 'discrediting' him?

The simple fact is, based on your post, is that you are hugely ignorant about homosexuality, and that ignorance feeds bigotry - the same same kind of bigotry many have had about blacks.

Race and sexual orientation don't have to be exactly the same thing for ignorance and bigotry to be the same.

Let me just set you straight right here.

First maybe you have grown up in some damn America that I haven't, but when it comes to marriage we have, with extreme prejudice, disallowed people to marry based soley on behavior. I don't know of any 1st cousins being allowed to marry or some guy marrying his sister. Polygamy is illegal as is bigamy. I haven't seen a wedding allowing a human to marry a dog. I don't know of any pedophile being allowed to marry some 8 year old. Marriage has been dictated by behavior.

People like you piss me off when you say I should be sensitive to the gay issue. I am not fracking gay. I am not a marijuana smoker. I don't drink, even socially. I am not sensitive to any of those issues either. So just because some swinging dick like you says my principles should based your damn stereotype as to what kind of man I should be and the principles I should have, you can kiss my rearend.

And no matter how I believe or what I believe, I am no more ignorant than you or any else who is or is not a supporter of gay marriage. I have an opinion just like you. I am not by any stretch of your bs imagination obligated to support every damn cause of every social issue or group. And this not about equal rights. A gay man can marry any shape, size, or color woman like every other man. I will repsect the law and I am even on better than aquaintance terms with a gay guy. Love the guy, but that doesn't mean I support him in this endeavor.

I am not ashamed to say I have my belief on this rooted from the bible. I don't care what kind of names or any other junk they or you say. Their opinions ain't create Jesus and I am not going to answer to him on behalf of your beliefs either. Freedom is not just about getting rights, its just as much about accepting responsibility as well.

 

[CitizenKain]

I am not ashamed to say I have my belief on this rooted from the bible. I don't care what kind of names or any other junk they or you say. Their opinions ain't create Jesus and I am not going to answer to him on behalf of your beliefs either. Freedom is not just about getting rights, its just as much about accepting responsibility as well.

So your bigotry and ignorance of science are rooted in a fairy tale, good for you. Its the sign of a truly stupid and ignorant person to equate gay marriage to pedophilia, and completely invalidates any argument you can make on this.

 

[classy]

So your bigotry and ignorance of science are rooted in a fairy tale, good for you. Its the sign of a truly stupid and ignorant person to equate gay marriage to pedophilia, and completely invalidates any argument you can make on this.

Truthfully you are wasting you're time with the anti-god post. The day when you create god let me know. Calling someone stupid is irony. You whole belief system is based on you don't believe in God. You have zero proof and short of some put down statements you have nothing. And just because I don't support gay marriage doesn't make me a bigot. I don't support my daughter marrying a porn star either.

 

[Darwin333]

I think this is the kind of thing people mean with "activist judges". The people spoke loud and clear with their vote. Since some people find the vote inconvenient, a judge will simply invalidate the will of the people.

You were never meant to be able to "vote" away peoples rights or vote to discriminate against a population. The public shouldn't be able to vote away your free speech rights or your 2nd amendment rights either.

The entire point of "rights" isn't to protect the popular, that is pretty much protected by default. It is to protect things that are generally unpopular (like the speech of some asshole who you disagree with).

 

[Paul98]

Truthfully you are wasting you're time with the anti-god post. The day when you create god let me know. Calling someone stupid is irony. You whole belief system is based on you don't believe in God. You have zero proof and short of some put down statements you have nothing. And just because I don't support gay marriage doesn't make me a bigot. I don't support my daughter marrying a porn star either.

There is a big difference between what you don't support, and you making other people unable to do something which you can and have done.

 

[classy]

There is a big difference between what you don't support, and you making other people unable to do something which you can and have done.

That is true, but its also misleading. There are things I can't do for legal reasons that I disagree with. But I have to accept those circumstances.

 

[Zebo]

Let me just set you straight right here.

First maybe you have grown up in some damn America that I haven't, but when it comes to marriage we have, with extreme prejudice, disallowed people to marry based soley on behavior. I don't know of any 1st cousins being allowed to marry or some guy marrying his sister. Polygamy is illegal as is bigamy. I haven't seen a wedding allowing a human to marry a dog. I don't know of any pedophile being allowed to marry some 8 year old. Marriage has been dictated by behavior.

People like you piss me off when you say I should be sensitive to the gay issue. I am not fracking gay. I am not a marijuana smoker. I don't drink, even socially. I am not sensitive to any of those issues either. So just because some swinging dick like you says my principles should based your damn stereotype as to what kind of man I should be and the principles I should have, you can kiss my rearend.

And no matter how I believe or what I believe, I am no more ignorant than you or any else who is or is not a supporter of gay marriage. I have an opinion just like you. I am not by any stretch of your bs imagination obligated to support every damn cause of every social issue or group. And this not about equal rights. A gay man can marry any shape, size, or color woman like every other man. I will repsect the law and I am even on better than aquaintance terms with a gay guy. Love the guy, but that doesn't mean I support him in this endeavor.

I am not ashamed to say I have my belief on this rooted from the bible. I don't care what kind of names or any other junk they or you say. Their opinions ain't create Jesus and I am not going to answer to him on behalf of your beliefs either. Freedom is not just about getting rights, its just as much about accepting responsibility as well.

I guess white people should not have been sensitive to civil rights too since they weren't black, did not concern them, in fact they benefited with blacks as 2nd class status/slaves. Fools.

 

[Darwin333]

Truthfully you are wasting you're time with the anti-god post. The day when you create god let me know. Calling someone stupid is irony. You whole belief system is based on you don't believe in God. You have zero proof and short of some put down statements you have nothing. And just because I don't support gay marriage doesn't make me a bigot. I don't support my daughter marrying a porn star either.

If I didn't support interracial marriage would you consider me a bigot? And for the record, I don't support my daughter marrying a porn star either.

 

[classy]

I guess white people should not have been insensitive to civil rights too since they weren't black, did not concern them, in fact they benefited with blacks as 2nd class status/salves. Fools.

Again your argument is because I am black I have to support gay marriage. Its old and tired. Also this is the biggest slap in the face for all the gay marriage. Civil rights had a very strong backing from those of bible believing folks. People who believed that discrimination was against God. Now you can try to pretend that influence was small, but it wasn't. Many supported civil rights not from a legal constitutional perspective, but from a church perspective as well. This idea that christian beliefs were not apart of the making of law in this country is a lie.

 

[Moonbeam]

So your bigotry and ignorance of science are rooted in a fairy tale, good for you. Its the sign of a truly stupid and ignorant person to equate gay marriage to pedophilia, and completely invalidates any argument you can make on this.

For a gay man not to be able to marry the person he loves is no different than a black man not being able to marry a woman of another race. The analogy is identical. Every bigot is proud of his bigotry. Without being proud of being a bigot a bigot wouldn't be a bigot. You know right away, however, that the pride covers guilt because they have a burning need to tell you just how proud they are. It's because of bigots like classy that it took so long for black people to get equal rights. The Bible says that Black people just don't measure up.

 

[classy]

If I didn't support interracial marriage would you consider me a bigot? And for the record, I don't support my daughter marrying a porn star either.

A black person marrying a white person didn't change health class in school. A vagina is vagina and pipe is a pipe. Color or ethnicity is not behavior.

 

[classy]

For a gay man not to be able to marry the person he loves is no different than a black man not being able to marry a woman of another race. The analogy is identical. Every bigot is proud of his bigotry. Without being proud of being a bigot a bigot wouldn't be a bigot. You know right away, however, that the pride covers guilt because they have a burning need to tell you just how proud they are. It's because of bigots like classy that it took so long for black people to get equal rights. The Bible says that Black people just don't measure up.

Can you please quote that scripture for me where blacks don't measure up? Now be very careful, because I guarantee you I know scripture very very well.

 

[Craig234]

Let me just set you straight right here.

The not straight can't set the straight straight.

First maybe you have grown up in some damn America that I haven't, but when it comes to marriage we have, with extreme prejudice, disallowed people to marry based soley on behavior. I don't know of any 1st cousins being allowed to marry or some guy marrying his sister. Polygamy is illegal as is bigamy. I haven't seen a wedding allowing a human to marry a dog. I don't know of any pedophile being allowed to marry some 8 year old. Marriage has been dictated by behavior.

You're quite confused, needless to say, about every issue you mention. It's not 'behavior' for people to be cousins (or siblings). Recognizing people are not dogs is not the same as recognizing that blacks are not sub-human or gays are not sub-human, nor are those things behavioral. You completely ignored the point as well that you have no argument even if they WERE behavioral why discrimination is ok.

People like you piss me off when you say I should be sensitive to the gay issue. I am not fracking gay.

Yes, because it sounds like you are bigoted against gays and want 'your cause' to be noble and right while 'their cause' is beneath yours - YOU ARE NOT GAY.

You are offended by being associated, just as white bigots are offended when told about human history having common ancestors from Africa. WE ARE NOT BLACK!

I am not a marijuana smoker. I don't drink, even socially. I am not sensitive to any of those issues either.

No, but you are irrational, comparing drinking to homosexuality, and let's not even try to figure out what you're talking about when you imply drinkers have no right to marry.

So just because some swinging dick like you says my principles should based your damn stereotype as to what kind of man I should be and the principles I should have, you can kiss my rearend.

Ah yes, there's that lash our name-calling rage over being associated with gays that offends your bigotry again. Why don't you just call me a i love you-lover and be done with it?

i love you-lover! i love you-lover! Sneer sneer. Oh, is that a little too close to home?

You are just as bad, and worse than most, as the white racists are about blacks. They love to say things like 'you can kiss my ass' to express their mindless fury, too.

And your logic I'v already criticized - rears its ugly head again here, with your equating an argument with what's right, with some ordering you to have a certain opinion.

You can't discuss the issue, but you can lie that you're being ordered around and that's what you object to.

And no matter how I believe or what I believe, I am no more ignorant than you or any else who is or is not a supporter of gay marriage.

Of course you are. And you're too ignorant to get that, like any ignorant bigot. At least some of them can admit it, you can't.

I have an opinion just like you. I am not by any stretch of your bs imagination obligated to support every damn cause of every social issue or group.

So which groups are ok to have baseless bigotry about, and why?

And this not about equal rights. A gay man can marry any shape, size, or color woman like every other man.

'There is NO DISCRIMINATION by limiting marriage to the same race. A black man has the SAME RIGHT to many any woman of his race he wants, like any white man has.'

No, you are dishonestly pretending that there's no such thing as homosexuality, just as earlier bigots pretended that inter-racial love was not legitimate.

I will repsect the law and I am even on better than aquaintance terms with a gay guy. Love the guy, but that doesn't mean I support him in this endeavor.

I'm no bigot for supporting segregation - I have a black friend!

I am not ashamed to say I have my belief on this rooted from the bible.

First, you misread the bible IMO. Here's a hint: the bible was widely used as the basis for justifiying racist policies in the past. They were wrong and you are wrong.

Here's a second hint: the bible is fine to use for some moral positions on how you vote. But think twice about our secular society and you forcing one religious view on everyone.

And finally, recognize you are USING the bible for your bigotry, disrespecting it to make a tool of hate just as people used to for racism. You're violating the bible's lessons.

Are you loving gays as yourself, when you indulge your bigotry to deny them the right to marry the people they love? Are you treating them how you would want to be treated? No.

I don't care what kind of names or any other junk they or you say. Their opinions ain't create Jesus and I am not going to answer to him on behalf of your beliefs either. Freedom is not just about getting rights, its just as much about accepting responsibility as well.

If I were talking to a white bigot who said the bible ordered racist segregation in 1960, I'd have a hard time getting him to change his opinion - the same hard time I have with you.

There's no issue with gays not deserving to marry over accepting responsibility, any more than there was blacks deserving slavery for not accepting responsibility.

The lack of responsibility here is YOURS, as a human being, to treat others morally and to not be baselessly discriminatory out of bigotry.

 

[Paul98]

A black person marrying a white person didn't change health class in school. A vagina is vagina and pipe is a pipe. Color or ethnicity is not behavior.

Oh so it's illegal for them to have sex?

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

Sadly the SCOTUS is the last line of defense for the country now.

Defense... from what? What imaginary boogieman do you think is coming to get you?

 

[BeauJangles]

I am not ashamed to say I have my belief on this rooted from the bible. I don't care what kind of names or any other junk they or you say. Their opinions ain't create Jesus and I am not going to answer to him on behalf of your beliefs either. Freedom is not just about getting rights, its just as much about accepting responsibility as well.

Wat?


1) When it comes to extending rights to minorities in this country, the majority has sucked at it. If left untouched, we'd still be dealing with the Civil Rights movement today.

2) Just because your book says that I can't do something doesn't make it so.

3) Equal protection.