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Ouch! Creationists Take A Beating?

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Originally posted by: Injury
Originally posted by: KarenMarie
i dont get why ppl who DONT believe something feel the need to go out of their way to poke at ppl who do? Especially at holiday time. Why not just leave them alone and let them enjoy themselves?

Why be so bothered about it that they need stir the pot?
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:thumbsup:

It's not like we're all going to read a post and say to ourselves...

"MY WORD! WHAT THE HELL HAVE I BEEN DOING???? TIME TO GO BREAK SOME 'COMMANDMENTS'!"

Even if a superior being was proven false, I would still go to church because it helps me get in touch with my morales and ethics. You don't need to be a christian to understand and agree with the values that it teaches.
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This is why many atheists are "militant." Statements like these scare the absolute bejeezus out of me. Basically, what you're saying is that if you stopped going to church, you would lose your sense of morals and ethics. "The only thing that stops me from doing bad things is going to church" is not a comforting statement.
 
Originally posted by: mercanucaribe
The true Creation story:

In the beginning there was an empty darkness. The only thing in this void was Nyx, a bird with black wings. With the wind she laid a golden egg and for ages she sat upon this egg. Finally life began to stir in the egg and out of it rose Eros, the god of love. One half of the shell rose into the air and became the sky and the other became the Earth. Eros named the sky Uranus and the Earth he named Gaia. Then Eros made them fall in love.

Uranus and Gaia had many children together and eventually they had grandchildren. Some of their children become afraid of the power of their children. Kronus, in an effort to protect himself, swallowed his children when they were still infants. However, his wife Rhea hid their youngest child. She gave him a rock wrapped in swaddling clothes, which he swallowed, thinking it was his son.

Once the child, Zeus, had reached manhood his mother instructed him on how to trick his father to give up his brothers and sisters. Once this was accomplished the children fought a mighty war against their father. After much fighting the younger generation won. With Zeus as their leader, they began to furnish Gaia with life and Uranus with stars.

Soon the Earth lacked only two things: man and animals. Zeus summoned his sons Prometheus (fore-thought) and Epimetheus (after-thought). He told them to go to Earth and create men and animals and give them each a gift.

Prometheus set to work forming men in the image of the gods and Epimetheus worked on the animals. As Epimetheus worked he gave each animal he created one of the gifts. After Epimetheus had completed his work Prometheus finally finished making men. However when he went to see what gift to give man Epimetheus shamefacedly informed him that he had foolishly used all the gifts.
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This story is equally as silly and stupid as the story of Creation as told in the Bible. It is just that many people accept the Bible story as true.
 
Originally posted by: HermDogg
[

This is why many atheists are "militant." Statements like these scare the absolute bejeezus out of me. Basically, what you're saying is that if you stopped going to church, you would lose your sense of morals and ethics. "The only thing that stops me from doing bad things is going to church" is not a comforting statement.
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hmm I like that word militant. Good ring to it lol :-D
 
Originally posted by: kogase
Originally posted by: KarenMarie
That is not what I mean. The example you use directly affects ppl who dont believe, therefore their voicing is undersandable.
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His point actually hits the nail on the head. I make fun of Christians not because they're beliefs are stupid (I can keep that to myselves), but because in this country right now Christians are one of the most vocal and obnoxious advocacy groups. Three decades ago it was feminists and militant blacks, and conservatives ragged on them (rightfully so). Now Christians are doing the same thing, but conservative's mouths are shut because Christians now form a large part of their constituancy. Well I'm not a conservative, and fundamentalist Christians are getting on my nerves, so I'm gonna be vocal about it. I don't give a damn about Judaism, Buddhism, Taoism, Hinduism, etc. because they aren't in my face with their beliefs. As soon as the evangelism from Christians ends so will the hostility towards their beliefs.
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Exactly...the pot stirring didnt begin with the scientists. They are a very introverted bunch, and usually very careful not to extended the application of their hypothesis beyond their validity.

Like it or not, its a hot topic right now. The first punches were thrown by the evangelicals. They *perceived* a threat to their religion, and acted as they chose fit.

Even though its a pretty retarded fight in my eyes, given that there is no need for there to be a conflict between science and religion unless you are so closed minded that you cant accept the slightest bit of dissonance and uncertainty in your beliefs, the "scientists" are put in a position that they NEED to defend themselves, like it or not.
 
Originally posted by: HermDogg
Originally posted by: Injury
Originally posted by: KarenMarie
i dont get why ppl who DONT believe something feel the need to go out of their way to poke at ppl who do? Especially at holiday time. Why not just leave them alone and let them enjoy themselves?

Why be so bothered about it that they need stir the pot?
Click to expand...

:thumbsup:

It's not like we're all going to read a post and say to ourselves...

"MY WORD! WHAT THE HELL HAVE I BEEN DOING???? TIME TO GO BREAK SOME 'COMMANDMENTS'!"

Even if a superior being was proven false, I would still go to church because it helps me get in touch with my morales and ethics. You don't need to be a christian to understand and agree with the values that it teaches.
Click to expand...


This is why many atheists are "militant." Statements like these scare the absolute bejeezus out of me. Basically, what you're saying is that if you stopped going to church, you would lose your sense of morals and ethics. "The only thing that stops me from doing bad things is going to church" is not a comforting statement.
Click to expand...

I didn't gather that from what he said at all. I took his statement to mean that even if God were somehow proven not to exist, he would still attend church because it helps him "get in touch with [his] morales and ethics." Didn't mention anything about actions. I'd take it to mean he just enjoys the time of quiet introspection and self-reflection that can often accompany a trip to church, temple, or wherever.
 
I laugh when folks say stuff like this. Let me help you, the bible never talks about the beginning of the world. As a matter of fact in many places it mentions a time before Adam. The bible only gives a detailed account of Adam on, but clearly speaks in many passages that a pre-adam era existed.
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Right. So, at best, the bible is a book of internal contradictions and ambiguity. Pretty lousy effort for one credited with omniscience and perfection. Why don't you folks just admit that you believe this stuff because your parents told it to you when you were young, and stop trying to pretend that it has any shred of veracity, accuracy or even plausibility? Don't you get tired trying to retrofit the world around you into something so obviously stagnant and ill-conceived?
 
Originally posted by: DigDug
I laugh when folks say stuff like this. Let me help you, the bible never talks about the beginning of the world. As a matter of fact in many places it mentions a time before Adam. The bible only gives a detailed account of Adam on, but clearly speaks in many passages that a pre-adam era existed.
Click to expand...

Right. So, at best, the bible is a book of internal contradictions and ambiguity. Pretty lousy effort for one credited with omniscience and perfection. Why don't you folks just admit that you believe this stuff because your parents told it to you when you were young, and stop trying to pretend that it has any shred of veracity, accuracy or even plausibility? Don't you get tired trying to retrofit the world around you into something so obviously stagnant and ill-conceived?
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No. Thanks for asking, though.
 
Originally posted by: KarenMarie
Originally posted by: BD2003
Originally posted by: KarenMarie
i dont get why ppl who DONT believe something feel the need to go out of their way to poke at ppl who do? Especially at holiday time. Why not just leave them alone and let them enjoy themselves?

Why be so bothered about it that they need stir the pot?
Click to expand...

Well, you dont see scientists trying to get HS religion class to teach evolution, do you?
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That is not what I mean. The example you use directly affects ppl who dont believe, therefore their voicing is undersandable.

What i am talking about are those that just feel the need to use any excuse to ridicule, call out and take a poke at religion and those who believe in it.

i cannot see the point of praying to the east numerous times a day, or drawing pentagrams or praying on beads, or worshiping a little fat statue. But I don't feel the overwhelming need to take a pot shot at those who do. Especially not at their time of holy worship.

I prefer to just leave them alone, let them get on with what they wanna do. I don't partake in their rituals or celebrations... but nor do i need to belittle them.

i just dont understand ppl who feel the need to do so at every turn.
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This isn't about you. If all Christians shared your views on religion and beliefs, there would be no issue. But they don't, in fact, MOST of them don't seem to. It's not a matter of the science types supporting evolution, and Christians innocently believing something else in the privacy of their own minds, it's Christians suing schools to force them to teach their religious beliefs.

It is unfortunate that the Christians who actually seem to have payed attention to Jesus' teachings find themselves caught up in the fight. Two of my best friends fall into this catagory, and I really am sympathetic. But they realize why things are the way they are, and they really seem to dislike their "fellow Christians" for putting them in this position. I am, depending on my mood, an athiest, agnostic, Buddhist, Diest, or whatever else fits my current state of mind. And despite living with them for 4 years, my Christian buddies NEVER tried to force me to change my beliefs, as I respected their right to believe what THEY want. And if most Christians behaved that way, there would be a lot fewer problems like this in the US.
 
Originally posted by: DigDug
I laugh when folks say stuff like this. Let me help you, the bible never talks about the beginning of the world. As a matter of fact in many places it mentions a time before Adam. The bible only gives a detailed account of Adam on, but clearly speaks in many passages that a pre-adam era existed.
Click to expand...

Right. So, at best, the bible is a book of internal contradictions and ambiguity. Pretty lousy effort for one credited with omniscience and perfection. Why don't you folks just admit that you believe this stuff because your parents told it to you when you were young, and stop trying to pretend that it has any shred of veracity, accuracy or even plausibility? Don't you get tired trying to retrofit the world around you into something so obviously stagnant and ill-conceived?
Click to expand...


My oh my, how the clumsy brush of sweeping generalizations is abused by both sides.
 
Originally posted by: Whisper
Originally posted by: HermDogg
Originally posted by: Injury
Originally posted by: KarenMarie
i dont get why ppl who DONT believe something feel the need to go out of their way to poke at ppl who do? Especially at holiday time. Why not just leave them alone and let them enjoy themselves?

Why be so bothered about it that they need stir the pot?
Click to expand...

:thumbsup:

It's not like we're all going to read a post and say to ourselves...

"MY WORD! WHAT THE HELL HAVE I BEEN DOING???? TIME TO GO BREAK SOME 'COMMANDMENTS'!"

Even if a superior being was proven false, I would still go to church because it helps me get in touch with my morales and ethics. You don't need to be a christian to understand and agree with the values that it teaches.
Click to expand...


This is why many atheists are "militant." Statements like these scare the absolute bejeezus out of me. Basically, what you're saying is that if you stopped going to church, you would lose your sense of morals and ethics. "The only thing that stops me from doing bad things is going to church" is not a comforting statement.
Click to expand...

I didn't gather that from what he said at all. I took his statement to mean that even if God were somehow proven not to exist, he would still attend church because it helps him "get in touch with [his] morales and ethics." Didn't mention anything about actions. I'd take it to mean he just enjoys the time of quiet introspection and self-reflection that can often accompany a trip to church, temple, or wherever.
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Why would a church get a person 'in touch with morals and ethics' anymore than a park unless one depends on a belief in a higher power in order to control themselves?
I also don't find it very comforting.

My morals and ethics are based of humanism... I have no mystical judgement sitting over my head ensuring I do the right thing.... I do the right thing simply because its the right thing to do.
 
Originally posted by: Whisper
Originally posted by: DigDug
I laugh when folks say stuff like this. Let me help you, the bible never talks about the beginning of the world. As a matter of fact in many places it mentions a time before Adam. The bible only gives a detailed account of Adam on, but clearly speaks in many passages that a pre-adam era existed.
Click to expand...

Right. So, at best, the bible is a book of internal contradictions and ambiguity. Pretty lousy effort for one credited with omniscience and perfection. Why don't you folks just admit that you believe this stuff because your parents told it to you when you were young, and stop trying to pretend that it has any shred of veracity, accuracy or even plausibility? Don't you get tired trying to retrofit the world around you into something so obviously stagnant and ill-conceived?
Click to expand...


My oh my, how the clumsy brush of sweeping generalizations is abused by both sides.
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Abused by both sides of every argument! 🙂
We are all far too guilty of this practice unfortunately.
 
Originally posted by: Praxis1452
why do people bother posting? "no but thanks anyway, though"... Really that helped your argument didn't it?
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I answered the question politely. What's wrong with that?
 
Originally posted by: DigDug
I laugh when folks say stuff like this. Let me help you, the bible never talks about the beginning of the world. As a matter of fact in many places it mentions a time before Adam. The bible only gives a detailed account of Adam on, but clearly speaks in many passages that a pre-adam era existed.
Click to expand...

Right. So, at best, the bible is a book of internal contradictions and ambiguity. Pretty lousy effort for one credited with omniscience and perfection. Why don't you folks just admit that you believe this stuff because your parents told it to you when you were young, and stop trying to pretend that it has any shred of veracity, accuracy or even plausibility? Don't you get tired trying to retrofit the world around you into something so obviously stagnant and ill-conceived?
Click to expand...

Before this post, it wasnt much of a flame war. More like flicking matches at each other. This post is a blowtorch - the war is now on. 😛

While agree with certain sentiments of your post, there is probably a majority of christians that can live with such contradiction, and are not bad people for it. Its the ones that *militantly* force their beliefs (and science does not rely on belief, no matter how hard you say it does) upon others, that are the problem. I used to find them more of a group of people to laugh at, but now that they wield massive political power, the good war must be fought, like it or not.
 
No. Thanks for asking, though.
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Thanks for the admission that you in fact spend effort trying to reconcile the two, in itself an implication that the real world and your bible are quite different. Not sure about you, but I trust my 5 senses and my own faculties, not a poorly written book that fails to contemplate most everything around me.
 
Maybe I am taking it the wrong way. Maybe I am not getting my point across properly in this limited medium. I don't know.

But I still fail to see why ppl who do not believe feel the need to take pot shots at those who do.

There are numerous religions in which i don't believe and some i think are silly. i am as entitled to feel that way as they are to put their faith where they do. But i would never dream of starting a thread to prove them wrong, or post in it to belittle and make fun of them. It is just not something that feel the need to do. if a person of faith tried to 'convert' me or preach to me, then i would have to make my feelings known. but if it is not directed towards me... i just leave them alone and let them get on with it. And i certainly would not wait until one of the holiest days of their religion to poke at their faith.

but, i suppose to those that do not believe... it is a fine thing to do. kind of like when the cartoons were posted against the Islamic faith. Those who believed were horrified and those who did not, thought nothing wrong with it. because it was not their faith, they did not see it as hurtful, disrespectful or intolerant.

who knows... i am aware that i certainly wont change anyone's mind and make them re-think taking shots at anyone else for what they believe. i just dont understand why they feel the need to do it, instead of just letting the believers get on with believing.

:shrug;
 
there is probably a majority of christians that can live with such contradiction, and are not bad people for it.
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Absolutely, there are some wonderful folks I know who live it everyday. What I DON'T like is that part of this set of irreconcilable beliefs is an edict to convert and impose such upon me, directly or indirectly. While not every christian believesw in door-to-door sales, the ethos is deeply ingrained and the basis of the crusades (both in the past and the current one being waged by Muslims, another Abrahamic mess altogether) and bloodshed. The fact that more blood has been shed in the name of the Bible than any other book in this world EVER is an indisputable testament to the danger of believing in the doctrines within.

That said, if your christianity is about following what you feel makes sense in the Bible and at your Sunday sermon, then two questions arise:

(1) Is it Christianity that is guiding you, or are you guiding your Christianity? Its oviously the latter, but think: how can you pick and choose from a doctrine that inherently provides that you are to follow ALL of it? You are in essence, violating the basic premise of Christianity by not following it as it says to be followed! Do you not see the fundamental contradiction in selectively believing in parts of a doctrine that says it as a whole must all be followed?

(2) If you are going to cherry-pick and choose what you believe in, why do so in a book filled with such mixed message, and not from, let say, a Tony Robbin's one? I guarantee more positive anecdotes and guidance in the latter.

Face it - you are "buffet" Christians. Fake. Not following the word of God. Shame on you! 🙂
 
Originally posted by: DigDug
No. Thanks for asking, though.
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Thanks for the admission that you in fact spend effort trying to reconcile the two, in itself an implication that the real world and your bible are quite different. Not sure about you, but I trust my 5 senses and my own faculties, not a poorly written book that fails to contemplate most everything around me.
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I admitted nothing. Your question assumed a situation which doesn't exist for me. I'm sorry the Bible pisses you off.
 
Originally posted by: KarenMarie
Maybe I am taking it the wrong way. Maybe I am not getting my point across properly in this limited medium. I don't know.

But I still fail to see why ppl who do not believe feel the need to take pot shots at those who do.

There are numerous religions in which i don't believe and some i think are silly. i am as entitled to feel that way as they are to put their faith where they do. But i would never dream of starting a thread to prove them wrong, or post in it to belittle and make fun of them. It is just not something that feel the need to do. if a person of faith tried to 'convert' me or preach to me, then i would have to make my feelings known. but if it is not directed towards me... i just leave them alone and let them get on with it. And i certainly would not wait until one of the holiest days of their religion to poke at their faith.

but, i suppose to those that do not believe... it is a fine thing to do. kind of like when the cartoons were posted against the Islamic faith. Those who believed were horrified and those who did not, thought nothing wrong with it. because it was not their faith, they did not see it as hurtful, disrespectful or intolerant.

who knows... i am aware that i certainly wont change anyone's mind and make them re-think taking shots at anyone else for what they believe. i just dont understand why they feel the need to do it, instead of just letting the believers get on with believing.

:shrug;
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I certainly agree with you that the OP, the title, and the original post exemplify the kind of childishness that doesnt help our case. But its a still topic worth discussing, if one can get past the immaturity of the title.
 
Originally posted by: KarenMarie
But I still fail to see why ppl who do not believe feel the need to take pot shots at those who do.
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It's human nature unfortunately.

I also can't figure out why people who believe feel the need to tell those who don't that their 'eternal soul' in danger.

While both sides are guilty of petty sniping and such I will say that NO atheist or agnostic has ever knocked on my door telling me I need to investigate their belief (or lack thereof)..

Don't pretend like 'spreading the word' isn't a integral part of Christianity.
 
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