Other than gaming, when does PCI-E offer significant benefit over AGP 8X?

Ken90630

Golden Member
Mar 6, 2004
1,571
2
81
I've wondered about this for a long time, so thought I'd ask.

In what types of applications is PCI Express significantly better than AGP 8X? I assume gaming, of course, but what else? Any advantage to having PCI Express do things like Photoshop or watch 1080p or 720p videos on YouTube?

Just curious, 'cuz I have a couple decent AGP 8X cards lying around that I'm thinking of putting to use.
 
Last edited:

nenforcer

Golden Member
Aug 26, 2008
1,767
1
76
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/nvidia-7800gs-confirms-agp-aint-dead,1213-2.html

As a point of reference, a PCI-X (133 MHz 64-bit) device and PCIe device at 4-lanes (×4), Gen1 speed have roughly the same peak transfer rate in a single-direction: 1064 MB/sec. The PCIe bus has the potential to perform better than the PCI-X bus in cases where multiple devices are transferring data communicating simultaneously, or if communication with the PCIe peripheral is bidirectional.

Take your pick, its faster and more energy efficient across any and all applications. Could be 3D / Video edit/composit/rendering, extremely large CAD/CAM designs, high speed networking (10GigE) or NAS/SAN file serving to highly bandwidth intensive virtualization and database servers.
 

stahlhart

Super Moderator Graphics Cards
Dec 21, 2010
4,273
77
91
There's also the side issue of the current pull through the auxilliary power connector. Over the past few years I've gone through several molex connectors on an AIW X800XT that have been trashed by the heat generated (burned housing, corroded pin/socket). Mabye it's just mine, though. :)
 

L33tMasta

Member
Jul 26, 2006
76
0
61
AFAIK there are no AGP cards that offer CUDA or PhysX processing. Only PCIE has that.
 

Arkadrel

Diamond Member
Oct 19, 2010
3,681
2
0
I've wondered about this for a long time, so thought I'd ask.

In what types of applications is PCI Express significantly better than AGP 8X? I assume gaming, of course, but what else? Any advantage to having PCI-E to do things like Photoshop or watch 1080p or 720p videos on YouTube?

Just curious, 'cuz I have a couple decent AGP 8X cards lying around that I'm thinking of putting to use.


Your not trolling or trying to fill up forum with spam threads?

cuz this thread right after this one:

Can someone explain the meaning of 32-bit and 64-bit as they relate to video cards?

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2217379


It looks weird, esp when you claim to have be "reasonably well-versed on computer-related specs" ect.

Posts: 1,515 .... history.

I think you dont like the amd threads at top, and are just spamming the forums.


The only thing that should concern you, is the performance of the cards.

If the card is AGP, and its limiting the "card" what does it matter?
the motherboard you have for it, probably is with a AGP port as well and/or you dont own a simular motherboard with PCI + card thats PCI as well.

So your forced to use it, reguardless of.


This is text-book quality member-callout thread-crapping. Absolutely not acceptable.

If you don't like a thread, don't post it in it.

If you suspect a member is violating the posting guidelines then limit your involvement to that of reporting the post/thread/member and leaving the matter to that of the moderator team.

Administrator Idontcare
 
Last edited by a moderator:

veri745

Golden Member
Oct 11, 2007
1,163
4
81
AGP x8 is so old, you are very unlikely to find a motherboard that supports both AGP and PCI-E.

PCI-E may be faster, but I wouldn't worry about the performance impact. Your main concern is going to be compatibility. An AGP card is only compatible with a motherboard that has an AGP slot, and not many newer motherboards have them.
 

Ken90630

Golden Member
Mar 6, 2004
1,571
2
81
Your not trolling or trying to fill up forum with spam threads?

cuz this thread right after this one:

Can someone explain the meaning of 32-bit and 64-bit as they relate to video cards?

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2217379


It looks weird, esp when you claim to have be "reasonably well-versed on computer-related specs" ect.

Posts: 1,515 .... history.

I think you dont like the amd threads at top, and are just spamming the forums.


The only thing that should concern you, is the performance of the cards.

If the card is AGP, and its limiting the "card" what does it matter?
the motherboard you have for it, probably is with a AGP port as well and/or you dont own a simular motherboard with PCI + card thats PCI as well.

So your forced to use it, reguardless of.

While I'm tempted to let the Admin's comment suffice, I'm going to add a few things.

First, I don't know what your problem is, other than possibly the fact that you see yourself as some sort of sophisticate and are annoyed by questions you already know the answer to. If that's the case, stay out of the thread. I asked a legitimate question. I've been a contributing member of Anandtech.com since March of 2004 -- that's 6 1/2 years longer than you, so you're really not in a position to question my credibility here. And I've never been a troll. Computers are a significant interest for me, but not an obsession. Between family and career obligations, I don't have time to keep up with every detailed aspect of this vast, constantly evolving technology. That's why I find this Website and its forum members so valuable -- with the exception of you and a scant few others over the years, it's been a great source of information, advice and support.

You said, "It looks weird, esp when you claim to have be 'reasonably well-versed on computer-related specs' etc."

Uh huh. You apparently have a reading comprehension problem, because you failed to mention the rest of that sentence where I said, " ... except for this aspect of video cards" (or words to that effect). So you either don't comprehend what people type or you're being dishonest by misrepresenting what I said, and neither reflect well on you.

You also said, "Your not trolling or trying to fill up forum with spam threads?"

You apparently don't know the definition of the word "spam." Free clue: Merriam Webster Online (dictionary) is your friend. I've never posted anything remotely close to being spam. As Austin Powers once said, "That's not my bag."

You also said, "The only thing that should concern you, is the performance of the cards."

Who are you to decide that? The reasons behind my questions are not subject to your approval. Actually, "the performance of the cards" is low on my list of priorities vis-a-vis the threads I posted here in the last couple days. I was more interested in understanding the technology, that I wasn't sure about, than comparing one card to another. You would do well to stick to answering posters' questions, with altruistic motivation, instead of passing unqualified judgment on the wisdom of the question. I've been around on this site long enough to gauge the validity of a question I might have. This site is for computer enthusiasts of all levels, not just experts.

Having said all this, I actually did appreciate some of your feedback in the other thread and almost sent you a PM to thank you. Between your (other) helpful info and that of all the others I got (some of which is fantastic), I now have a better understanding of this subject. Why you chose to take offense to my questions, however, is beyond me. Maybe you're just having a bad day? Whatever the reason, if you're annoyed by those less knowledgeable than you in a particular area (in your mind, anyway), don't participate in their threads.

Peace.
 
Last edited:

Concillian

Diamond Member
May 26, 2004
3,751
8
81
Newer (PCI-E) cards will have fixed function decoders for the common video compression codecs.

This means that AGP cards (and many older PCI-E cards) will force the CPU to decode video... and 1080p plus a CPU of the era that would have an AGP slot = lots of herky jerky dropped frames.

While it is technically not an AGP vs. PCI-E problem, it's a clear issue in looking at what hardware to use.

If you're not gaming with it, there's zero reason to even use a video card these days. A <$60 CPU has a perfectly adequate GPU built right into it (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819116409)
 

PingSpike

Lifer
Feb 25, 2004
21,755
599
126
AGP x8 is so old, you are very unlikely to find a motherboard that supports both AGP and PCI-E.

PCI-E may be faster, but I wouldn't worry about the performance impact. Your main concern is going to be compatibility. An AGP card is only compatible with a motherboard that has an AGP slot, and not many newer motherboards have them.

Not many? At this point I'd say no newer are compatible with them outside of some sort of exotic adapter. I think there were some AM2/939 and s775 solutions that had AGP as an option but after that I thought we'd finally buried the AGP corpse. :p
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
56,570
10,203
126
AGP is mostly uni-directional. At least, it was designed so that it had a fast, wide pathway TO the video card, but not much of a pathway FROM the video card.

It is for that reason that PCI-E is vastly superior to AGP, for purposes of GPGPU computing, like Folding@home. (I never tried their V1 GPU client, it worked with the ATI x19xx series, on AGP, since my X1950 Pro was PCI-E. I have no idea if it also worked with the AGP version of that card. If it did, it would make an interesting benchmark.)
 

PrincessFrosty

Platinum Member
Feb 13, 2008
2,300
68
91
www.frostyhacks.blogspot.com
I've wondered about this for a long time, so thought I'd ask.

In what types of applications is PCI Express significantly better than AGP 8X? I assume gaming, of course, but what else? Any advantage to having PCI Express do things like Photoshop or watch 1080p or 720p videos on YouTube?

Just curious, 'cuz I have a couple decent AGP 8X cards lying around that I'm thinking of putting to use.

It's pretty much just games at this stage, they're one of the few applications that really use that kind of bandwidth to the devices, things like HD video are extremely tame, youtube videos are only a few mb.

It would have to be something quite specialized I'm guessing and probably related with real time rendering anyway such as 3D modelling applications like 3D Studio Max.

The knock on effect of AGP is that it's an old standard which no one builds for anymore and so you lose all the latest features of modern video cards by sticking to an old standard, if you're looking to use old AGP video cards then the question is kind of redundant anyway, there was never really any video cards made on AGP 8x that exceeded the bandwidth of the AGP 8x bus as that would have been pointless at the time.

But also typically the bus from the graphics card has never been a bottleneck they've always had large amounts of headroom due to the standards evolving faster than the hardware, even at the of its life I don't think many video cards challenged the x8 AGP bus, last I checked 16x PCI-E only offered small margins over PCI-E 8x
 

Lonbjerg

Diamond Member
Dec 6, 2009
4,419
0
0
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/nvidia-7800gs-confirms-agp-aint-dead,1213-2.html

as a point of reference, a pci-x (133 mhz 64-bit) device and pcie device at 4-lanes (×4), gen1 speed have roughly the same peak transfer rate in a single-direction: 1064 mb/sec. The pcie bus has the potential to perform better than the pci-x bus in cases where multiple devices are transferring data communicating simultaneously, or if communication with the pcie peripheral is bidirectional.

Take your pick, its faster and more energy efficient across any and all applications. Could be 3d / video edit/composit/rendering, extremely large cad/cam designs, high speed networking (10gige) or nas/san file serving to highly bandwidth intensive virtualization and database servers.

pci-x != pci...
 

LiuKangBakinPie

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
3,903
0
0
A rig thats 5 to 7 years out of date instead of 15?

But let me explain it as short as possible in a non technical way.

PCI-e are packet based. Almost like your broadband connection. Now imagine AGP as your ISDN Modem and PCI-E as your 3.6 or 7.2mbit broadband connection.

Now go to you-tube with each and watch a video. You can imagine the rest I think
 
Last edited:

Lonbjerg

Diamond Member
Dec 6, 2009
4,419
0
0
A rig thats 5 to 7 years out of date instead of 15?

But let me explain it as short as possible in a non technical way.

PCI-e are packet based. Almost like your broadband connection. Now imagine AGP as your ISDN Modem and PCI-E as your 3.6 or 7.2mbit broadband connection.

Now go to you-tube with each and watch a video. You can imagine the rest I think

The link speed to AIB with GPU's are not that relevant.

PCI-E 2.0 is not maxed out...far from it.
PCI-E 3.0 is more PR than need.
 

LiuKangBakinPie

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
3,903
0
0
The link speed to AIB with GPU's are not that relevant.

PCI-E 2.0 is not maxed out...far from it.
PCI-E 3.0 is more PR than need.

Link speed. No
Overhead Oh yes. Actually the thing bringing PCI-E down was the overhead. PCI-E 3 it has been reduced to almost nothing meaning it can get closer to the theoretical.

What I basically tried to explain up there is with one connection your movies are going to play most of the times without a pause. The other its going to be a start stop affair.
 

Worthington

Golden Member
Apr 29, 2005
1,432
17
81
While it doesn't pertain specifically to GPUs, another beauty of of the PCI-Ex is that the slots are uniform throughout the motherboard (minus the assigned lanes). That allows for more freedom when it comes to arranging where you slot your various cards in. You aren't stuck being forced to use the AGP slot at the top of the board for example. Got a raid controller? NP, find a free x4 or higher slot and away you go.

Finding a board with a PCI-X slot and an AGP slot was nigh impossible back when PCI and AGP were the buses in use.
 

PingSpike

Lifer
Feb 25, 2004
21,755
599
126
These threads are always confusing to me because people say PCI-X and I can never tell if they're talking about PCI-Express or actual PCI-X. :p
 

Zorander

Golden Member
Nov 3, 2010
1,143
1
81
Other than gaming and all of the points above, price.

Good luck finding an AGP equivalent of today's card with no inflated price tag.
 

Mars999

Senior member
Jan 12, 2007
304
0
0
PCI-e is a big deal for GPGPU computing, and SSD drives, 10GB Lan card ect... Now when games start using more VRAM I can see the upload times being reduced as the time to move 4 to 8GB of texture data or stream it should take less time, e.g. level loads

Power usage is can be controlled now vs. IIRC AGP couldn't?
 

brybir

Senior member
Jun 18, 2009
241
0
0
I've wondered about this for a long time, so thought I'd ask.

In what types of applications is PCI Express significantly better than AGP 8X? I assume gaming, of course, but what else? Any advantage to having PCI Express do things like Photoshop or watch 1080p or 720p videos on YouTube?

Just curious, 'cuz I have a couple decent AGP 8X cards lying around that I'm thinking of putting to use.


One area that PCI-E is significantly better is in a workstation setting where you may have multiple devices working at the same time, each of which requires significant bandwidth. An example might be a SSD storage controller (commercial scale) and a Quatro type video card, each chugging through lots of data. The significantly higher bandwidth of the PCIE bus can allow for better simultanious use by multiple objects (including video cards). Some of my engineering friends have workstations that have large SSD drives, Quatro video cards, multilink Gig-E ethernet cards etc and having a generalized and high bandwidth bus can really make a big difference in overall performance.

As far as gaming goes, anything the video card has to retrieve information from the main system memory or hard drive, the data has to go over the databus. With AGP I think the bandwidth was limited to something like 2 GB as compared to PCIE offering that offers 8GB on a 16 lane connection. If you recall from the video card thread, if you have a video card with a small amount of onboard memory (say 512MB), your card is going to be fetching information from the system memory much more frequency, and the faster the connection, the faster your card can perform.

From a production standpoint, PCIE is also a generalized serial connection, thus, manufacturers can use PCIE lanes to connect almost everything in your computer together, which can help reduce manufacturing complexity and cost, which is always good from a consumer standpoint.
 

brybir

Senior member
Jun 18, 2009
241
0
0
PCI-e is a big deal for GPGPU computing, and SSD drives, 10GB Lan card ect... Now when games start using more VRAM I can see the upload times being reduced as the time to move 4 to 8GB of texture data or stream it should take less time, e.g. level loads

Power usage is can be controlled now vs. IIRC AGP couldn't?



Wow, we posted basically the same answer within a few minutes of each other...haha!