OT: Staples won't PM Gateway..charging difference on past orders!!

LostHiWay

Golden Member
Apr 22, 2001
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I placed an order last week for the 19" Samsung monitor deal that was posted here a couple of days ago . The Staples price on it was $299.98 I price matched with Gateway for $230.95, then used the $40 coupon. The total price with tax the rep from staples told me was $201.93.

Today I just got a call from Staples telling me that they do not price match Gateway and that I would be charged the difference of $73.00 on my credit card. I argued with her for a few minutes but got no where. I'm gonna dispute the charge with my CC company.

So if you guys have any price matches with gateway expect a charge on your CC
 

GermyBoy

Banned
Jun 5, 2001
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If they don't get your Okay BEFORE sending it out, any orders made online are FINAL. They can't go charging your credit cards. Otherwise, I'd randomly make up numbers and charge them myself.

Your digital signature is as good as your real signature and that is what signed the CC Slip. You don't have to return the item either (from the other OT forum re: visors), but just dispute and refuse to pay more than the price you both agreed upon. You don't have to lose deals due to the ignorance of others.
 

mithrandir2001

Diamond Member
May 1, 2001
6,545
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Yea, I think this is something you will want to dispute with your CC company. I don't think Staples can backpedal on this after-the-fact. The only way Staples could pull this off is if they haven't yet shipped the monitor nor charged you anything. If not - and I assume this is the case - I think you have the clear upper hand.
 

wasssup

Diamond Member
Nov 28, 2000
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staples is getting pretty nasty nowdays...wonder how much longer they can keep this up until they finally get into deep sh*t...
 

polotek147

Platinum Member
Dec 28, 2000
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If Staples pulls something like that on me again, I'm never ordering from their again. B*st*rds.
 

MegaNerd

Senior member
Jul 31, 2001
328
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All of these Staples problems are encouraging me to get the Amex Blue card with one-time use numbers...

Hopefully Amex wouldn't let them do something bogus like allowing a corrected (higher of course) charge as Staples is wanting to do here.
 

Dante921

Member
Mar 15, 2001
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<< All of these Staples problems are encouraging me to get the Amex Blue card with one-time use numbers...

Hopefully Amex wouldn't let them do something bogus like allowing a corrected (higher of course) charge as Staples is wanting to do here.
>>



i'm on the line with Blue right now to dispute the $104 extra they charged me for the Visor. it seems that basically they'll harass staples into crediting the difference, and if the don't, then Amex just won't pay them. or something.
 

Athena

Golden Member
Apr 9, 2001
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«Today I just got a call from Staples telling me that they do not price match Gateway and that I would be charged the difference of $73.00 on my credit card. »

1. Did the Service rep say why Gateway was excluded from the "any vendor anywhere" policy that is posted at the web?

2. Did you get a written confirmation of the price match? That's one reason I always prefer to do them by email or online rather than calling. In any case, all price matches are subject to management approval. According to Staples policy, orders are not supposed to be released for delivery until the match has been approved. Once it has been approved, it's final. This is definitely a charge that should be disputed with your credit card company.

 

Jzero

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
18,834
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Staples is being idiotic! If you dispute the charge, you might be responsible for $50 deductible, although many CC companies are giving full coverage on on-line purchases...you dispute the charge, keep the merchandise, Staples gets.....NOTHING! They stand to lose more by pushing it in an underhanded way....
 

MegaNerd

Senior member
Jul 31, 2001
328
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<< i'm on the line with Blue right now to dispute the $104 extra they charged me for the Visor. it seems that basically they'll harass staples into crediting the difference, and if the don't, then Amex just won't pay them. or something. >>



Did Staples submit two charges (original then an additional $104), or did they just do one charge? Also, did you use a one-time number for the purchase? I'm curious to find out if this will protect us from these occurrences.

Thanks for the info!
 

polotek147

Platinum Member
Dec 28, 2000
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Yes, I know that the one-time use numbers are for security purposes. I don't know if that stops vendors for making erroneous charges though. Curious about that as well.
 

GetReal

Golden Member
Mar 30, 2001
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<< If they don't get your Okay BEFORE sending it out, any orders made online are FINAL. They can't go charging your credit cards. Otherwise, I'd randomly make up numbers and charge them myself.

Your digital signature is as good as your real signature and that is what signed the CC Slip. You don't have to return the item either (from the other OT forum re: visors), but just dispute and refuse to pay more than the price you both agreed upon. You don't have to lose deals due to the ignorance of others.
>>



Wher do you guys get this stuff ? Do you just make it up ? Our law firm handles these type cases both for and against corporations all the time. There is no contract law concerning "digital signatures" or shipping an order constitutes a legally binding contract. This is total BS! The only of type of legal signature for a contract (including invoices online and off) other than an actual signature is a FAX signature. There was some pending legislation in 1999 concerning using a digital certificate as a valid signature, but the it was killed in the Senate due to pressure from the credit card lobby. Unless you FAXed a copy of the SIGNED invoice to Staples showing the agreed upon price you have no legal contract. An emailed order acknoledgement, emailed or online order status, or packing slip is not a legally binding document. Companies know this that is why they word their correspondence accordingly. Staples.com published policy business clearly states that they have the right to audit and remove and coupons that they determine to be invaiid. This is 100% legal and the CC compaines WILL back them if Staples responds to your dispute. If you want a legally binging comtract with Staples then you need submit a PO to Staples and have them send you a copy. Sign the PO and the FAX it back to them, then you have a legal agreement, otherwise you are SOL!!

In the case of LostHiWay, there is a legitimate dispute. Staples changed the terms of their PM policy AFTER a PM was approved. If LostHiWay, has already taken possession of the merchandise then this a no loose dispute. If LostHiWay, has not taken possession of the merchandise and accepts it after Staples notified the buyer of the order change then ther is no LEGAL grounds for a dispute. However before going to all the hassle of a CC dispute, I would suggest calling another CSR and asking for a supervisor and explaining the situation to them. If they still won't budge, then I would have them incur the expense of picking up the monitor and having to sell it as used. If they want to act this way towards customers, them make them pay.
 

seatidex

Senior member
Mar 22, 2000
427
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GetReal, Thank you for giving us a good explanation. I think they won't change price for in-store purchase items.
 

GetReal

Golden Member
Mar 30, 2001
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<< GetReal, Thank you for giving us a good explanation. I think they won't change price for in-store purchase items. >>



If you purchased in-store at a Staples B&M then Staples cannot legally charge your card for any additional amount. They would not even attempt this type of activity due to the potential legal consequences that the customer could levy against the store. The BIG difference in-store is that they have you signature and your purchase IS a legally binding contracted and is protected by comsumer law. --- Moral of the story... Don't screw with Staples if you don't want them to screw with you:)
 

BillRubin

Golden Member
Apr 11, 2001
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<< staples is getting pretty nasty nowdays...wonder how much longer they can keep this up until they finally get into deep sh*t... >>


Maybe they're tired of people who they see as ripping them off. Do you really think they'll care if people who are making them sell items at what is probably below their cost (when the coupon is factored in) stop doing business with them?

Bill
 

shurato

Platinum Member
Sep 24, 2000
2,398
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76
If their tired of people ripping them off. they should just stop pricematching or be a little more wiser about it... this is just plain WRONG...
 

Jzero

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
18,834
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<< Wher do you guys get this stuff ? >>



I don't profess to be a lawyer or anything, but I'd love to see your explanation hold water in court. If I can show a judge screen shots, e-mailed invoices, etc saying I was going to be billed for one price and accepted delivery on that item, and that the vendor later billed my CC for MORE without even a notification, do you REALLY think the judge would rule in favor of the vendor? If your on-line signature does not constitute a contract, then the vendor has as much authority to charge your account as you have in making the purchase to begin with--none at all. In that case, you could stake the claim that the company sent you an item and despite all the records to the contrary, there was no binding agreement regarding the sale of the item, so you don't have to pay for it, nor do you have to send it back according to laws regarding sending items in the mail that are unrequested. That's pretty ludicrous.

If there's no "legally binding" contract, there are still all the rules of making a transaction in good faith. If companies were allowed to get away with this kind of behavior, then it would also be legal for them to arbitrarily charge your account once your number is on record.
 

Dran

Senior member
Jul 24, 2001
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Interesting legal implications here. I'll throw my hat into the ring.

GetReal: Couldn't LostHiWay simply print out the confirmation/delivery mail, put his John Hancock on it, and fax it to Staples? That would provide the necessary signature on the necessary documentation, wouldn't it? The mail would have the agreed-upon price listed, as well as the ship date, and Staples' own records would verify such. Or, if Staples fails to maintain a record of transactions/confirmations/deliveries, wouldn't LHW's case be that much easier to prove with the aforementioned mail? If it's the legal signiature that's creating the discrepancy between digital and RL ordering, then simply signing and faxing a confirmation mail that both parties have matching copies of would close that gap.

However...

JZero:

<< If I can show a judge screen shots, e-mailed invoices, etc >>



The question is how does one prove that the digital evidence is real? Example: I could take a screenshot of any point in this thread, alter a person's reply to say that he/she fornicated with mutilated donkey carcasses, then change the date to read 1 year ago. How could you prove that it was fake, if the file itself claims not to've been saved or modified for a year? With your own screenshot, which would have today's date on it and therefore would be suspect of having been modified simply _because_ of the recent date on it?

We could turn to the ISPs involved for some sort of corroboration, but I highly doubt they keep records on every packet that goes through their routers, and if they did, finding the relevant ones might take months... or years.

The physical disks in the HDDs in each machine could be examined magnetically, to determine the true dates of save/alteration on each file. But that'd be prohibitively expensive, unless the settlement held the potential for several thousand, tens of thousands, or millions of dollars, such as if the person who's reply I altered sued me for defamation of character.

Proof is a hard thing to come by in a digital world, where anything and everything can be edited to nearly any extent.

That leaves only the parties involved in the dispute to provide evidence. Which takes us right back to LHW's problem. If Staples is unable, or refuses, to produce evidence that would bolster their case, such as the records I mentioned should be in Staples database, then LHW should have an easy victory on his/her hands. If Staples provides evidence suspect of having been doctored, again, the favor would fall on LHW. And if both parties provide the same evidence... LHW should, again, be the victor.

IOW, unless Staples can provide conclusive evidence that they informed LHW of the price change before shipping the product at the agreed-upon price, what they're doing amounts to CC fraud, that being charging a CC number without the owner's consent and/or awareness. Applying a retroactive price hike is blatantly illegal.

"Oh, by the way, we decided to increase our prices, and you now owe us $XXX for what we sold you/the services we performed last X."

No. It doesn't work that way, and I think even GetReal's legal expertise will agree with that. A contract is a contract, whether written, verbal, or digital. And, really, if this issue went so far as to be taken to a courtroom, no judge in the world would side with the vendor in this kind of dispute. If a judge set a precedence of allowing a vendor or company to apply retroactive price increases... who would buy anything? From anyone? The companies that conducted themselves that way would fold inside a year, _IF_ the entire nation didn't descend into anarchy first.

Hm... or maybe I've just had too much coffee today. *shrug*
 

simsoft

Member
Oct 10, 1999
118
0
0
There is such a thing as acceptable of a contract based on a digital response. If a company offers a product, and you accept the offer and they act on your offer to accept, you have a legally and binding contract, digital or otherwise. Perhaps you should review some of the laws surrounding EDI. WHen STalpes shipped the orders, they accepted the contract for sale at the terms that you agreed to.
 

johto

Senior member
Apr 20, 2001
642
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GetReal, I'd also like to thank you for shedding some knowledgable light on this situation.

And for you below, it is my understanding that a judge is to uphold the law, not what's right or wrong. So if the law is like GetReal says it, the judge would have to rule in Staples' favor (for something like the whole Visor coupon fiasco).



<<

<< Wher do you guys get this stuff ? >>



I don't profess to be a lawyer or anything, but I'd love to see your explanation hold water in court.  If I can show a judge screen shots, e-mailed invoices, etc saying I was going to be billed for one price and accepted delivery on that item, and that the vendor later billed my CC for MORE without even a notification, do you REALLY think the judge would rule in favor of the vendor?  If your on-line signature does not constitute a contract, then the vendor has as much authority to charge your account as you have in making the purchase to begin with--none at all.  In that case, you could stake the claim that the company sent you an item and despite all the records to the contrary, there was no binding agreement regarding the sale of the item, so you don't have to pay for it, nor do you have to send it back according to laws regarding sending items in the mail that are unrequested.  That's pretty ludicrous.

If there's no "legally binding" contract, there are still all the rules of making a transaction in good faith.  If companies were allowed to get away with this kind of behavior, then it would also be legal for them to arbitrarily charge your account once your number is on record. 
>>

 

FJ

Senior member
Jul 5, 2001
241
0
0
Is GetReal really a lawyer?

I saw his "legal advice" on another site, and though the details of the deal weren't exactly "in good faith," he seemed to be slightly off the mark in his arguments that the deal was essentially fraud... He also seems to be mainly pro-company, anti-consumer if he is a lawyer... So does anyone know?

Just wondering,
F
 

NotTheMama

Member
Aug 4, 2001
125
0
0
i totally agree with JZero, you may be a lawyer and all and the facts you state will definitely make a win win situation but there are other evidence in which to back you up. if this was really were to put to court, theres a 50% chance. all the document you provide with your computer can all be altered so the likeliness of those evidence may not be approved. invoices they send over snail mail can be used, don't they double check before sending? it's their responsibility for errors, otherwise a company do not deserve to do business. if i make 1/3rd mistake out of every order i make, i would be a millionaire.
 

loosbrew

Golden Member
Oct 30, 2000
1,336
1
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i was always under the impression that digital signatures can hold in court now. at least thats what they teach ya in MS courses :)

loosbrew