I don't understand how people are saying he lied. The definition of lie clearly requires INTENT. So far, the people who are saying Bush lied have not provided evidence that Bush knew there were no WMD's, or were likely no WMD's in Iraq. In fact, all the evidence clearly states that intelligence from various nations supported the theory that Saddam had a WMD program. Ultimately, he was wrong, and I agree with many of the people in this thread who said that Bush should have just made the case on Saddam being an evil dictator, but that doesn't make him a liar.
Nebor
Lifer
- Jun 24, 2003
- 29,582
- 12
- 76
What gives us the right? Our might. Might makes right. There's no one to stop us, and we're the ones that decide what's right.
And basically what I was saying is most people are better off being left in the dark. If you still think America is run by the people (you and me), then... there's nothing I can do for you. So as long as there's not a damn thing I can do about what's going on, I don't really want to hear about it. Think of it as closing your eyes while you're in a car with someone driving crazily.
And basically what I was saying is most people are better off being left in the dark. If you still think America is run by the people (you and me), then... there's nothing I can do for you. So as long as there's not a damn thing I can do about what's going on, I don't really want to hear about it. Think of it as closing your eyes while you're in a car with someone driving crazily.
True.
Thats why I don't care who wins this fall.
edit: Thats why Id wish all of these fanatics screaming "NOT four more years of TERROR" are just fcked in the head.
So what if America declares that 1+1=3 and vows to declare war on anyone who disagrees? The might makes right view is too simplistic.
Also, the car driving analogy is slightly inaccurate because in that situation, you can open your eyes if you want, and heck, you might just see something on the road an alert the driver to it. In the system you are suggesting, it would be impossible or very difficult for someone to get accurate information pertaining to these important social decisions. You're right that most people ARE better off left in the dark, but there are still intelligent and rational people out there who CAN and DESERVE to make informed decisions, and you would refuse them the ability to do so.
I'm all against Bush and all, but Moore totally seems like an idiot. I would almost put his mental capacity near that of Bush himself!
Really though, while I do believe Bush lied, in regards to the reason we went to war (and it wasn't because Iraq suddenly became an imminent threat...they've always been a relative threat to the U.S.), the real reason's probably a mixture of everything people have speculated about.
While, I agree all the information coming forth from the CIA and other intelliegence does seem to point in favor of Iraq having WMD, Bush just used it as a way to further his own agenda's, whatever they truly may be. Then again, all politicians lie so I hate them all, republicans and democrates alike, thought I do consider myself a liberal.
Moore's argument made no sense and often times changed the subjects. The fact that pathological liars can pass a lie dector because they truly believe what they are saying has nothing to do with Bush. Also, his question about whether O would send his own child to war really has no place in the interview. How would he respond if someone asked whether he'd sacrifice his own kid to remove someone HE (as in Moore) believed to be a true immediate threat to the U.S. I'd think he'd want to dance around the question as well. Again, it's really easy lookinh at everything in hindsight especially when you're not the one in charge of everything though.
Edit:
Also I must add, Xiety is a moron!!
With all that said and done, I'd vote to bring back clinton!! I hate Bush because he is truly stupid and is driving this nation downwards. I don't really care for Kerry either but he's on my side of the political fence so I guess yay for him. Anyone's gotta be smarter than dubya.
Really though, while I do believe Bush lied, in regards to the reason we went to war (and it wasn't because Iraq suddenly became an imminent threat...they've always been a relative threat to the U.S.), the real reason's probably a mixture of everything people have speculated about.
While, I agree all the information coming forth from the CIA and other intelliegence does seem to point in favor of Iraq having WMD, Bush just used it as a way to further his own agenda's, whatever they truly may be. Then again, all politicians lie so I hate them all, republicans and democrates alike, thought I do consider myself a liberal.
Moore's argument made no sense and often times changed the subjects. The fact that pathological liars can pass a lie dector because they truly believe what they are saying has nothing to do with Bush. Also, his question about whether O would send his own child to war really has no place in the interview. How would he respond if someone asked whether he'd sacrifice his own kid to remove someone HE (as in Moore) believed to be a true immediate threat to the U.S. I'd think he'd want to dance around the question as well. Again, it's really easy lookinh at everything in hindsight especially when you're not the one in charge of everything though.
Edit:
Also I must add, Xiety is a moron!!
With all that said and done, I'd vote to bring back clinton!! I hate Bush because he is truly stupid and is driving this nation downwards. I don't really care for Kerry either but he's on my side of the political fence so I guess yay for him. Anyone's gotta be smarter than dubya.
rh71
No Lifer
- Aug 28, 2001
- 52,844
- 1,049
- 126
What does Moore plan on doing about it all ? There are just as many well-opinionated Americans out there yet he gets the spotlight... cause he has the means to put it on film ... ? I'm waiting for his 15 minutes to expire also... (and I'm not even a Bush-fan).
I saw it the night it was on. Moore had Oreilly spinning in his chair. Many times moore would ask a simple question and OReilly would dance around it.
I say Moore came out of that much better then OReilly. That and it was pretty low to add more comments AFTER moore was not there. That just told me OReilly is a immature person, and I have only caught peices of his show before so I had no favor for either person before this.
I say Moore came out of that much better then OReilly. That and it was pretty low to add more comments AFTER moore was not there. That just told me OReilly is a immature person, and I have only caught peices of his show before so I had no favor for either person before this.
Unless you're simply making a joke at Moore's expense, I'll have to put your reasoning ability in the same category as Xiety and Moore himself. Which is pretty bad.
A lie is: Deliberately saying something you know not to be true.
Therefore, Bush saying Iraq had WMD's was NOT a lie. It may have ultimately been wrong, but a lie it was not.
Our intelligence said Iraq had them. So did Britain's. So did Russia's. Also France's and Germany's. The whole world believed this, BEFORE Bush said it.
Therefore, Bush did not lie, period. It isn't up for debate, it's completely false to say different.
WhoYoDaddy, how is Bush driving the nation down? The economy started down under Clinton. It is on its way back up under Bush.
In reality, the economy was going through a normal cycle. It can't stay up forever, but whomever is in office gets the credit/blame for it. The president can help the economy along, but the truth is that it will ebb and flow regardless.
And it is flowing at the moment, upward. Lots of jobs are being created, and not burger-flipping jobs, either. Things are going quite well with the economy.
In reality, the economy was going through a normal cycle. It can't stay up forever, but whomever is in office gets the credit/blame for it. The president can help the economy along, but the truth is that it will ebb and flow regardless.
And it is flowing at the moment, upward. Lots of jobs are being created, and not burger-flipping jobs, either. Things are going quite well with the economy.
But weapons inspectors that were there kept saying ?There are no WMD??
So believe a guy that is being strong armed by Cheney or the experts in Iraq that are looking?
If you ask enouhg people I am sure ONE will give you the answer you want, now is that answer what you want to hear or based on TRUE hard facts?
Gunslinger08
Lifer
- Nov 18, 2001
- 13,234
- 2
- 81
Like I said, the president can help the economy along...as I believe Bush did. It would have come back anyway, but it would have taken longer.
I tend to vote, not really for the candidate specifically, but for the ideals and values of that candidate's party over time.
I try not to get caught up in all the personal specifics that they argue about and in reality, sway many people's opinions on.
They try and sell their image, which works a lot of the time.
I look at it from the standpoint of, "the hell with all the rhetoric, what will each guy likely actually DO when elected?".
Based on that, I'll vote for Bush. Even Clinton said not too long ago, when someone who was not happy with Bush's policies asked him, "I don't know why anyone is surprised. President Bush is only doing exactly what he said he'd do when he was running for President."
I really don't think that'd be the case with Kerry...then again, he hasn't bothered to say what he'd do about anything, yet.
Gunslinger08
Lifer
- Nov 18, 2001
- 13,234
- 2
- 81
Exactly. Kerry has no actual platform. He wants to fix everything that Bush 'screwed up,' but what does that include, and how does he intend to fix it? He can't even make his mind up about the war in Iraq.
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