Oregon court voids campus gun policies at public colleges.

[Nebor]

dude wtf?

He's being sarcastic, painting gun carriers as bigots\racists that are scared of everything.

 

[umbrella39]

He's being sarcastic, painting gun carriers as bigots\racists that are scared of everything.

Correct on the sarcasm part but way off base with the other shit. I have a CCW permit. When I was working midnights downtown in a Detroit ER, I used to carry to and from the parking lot at night/morning. This was a couple years ago when it was "safe" down there. Never found college that scary that I ever even came close to entertaining the notion I needed/wanted to carry there, never once felt it should be my right, either. Time and a place for everything...

 

[PrinceofWands]

Correct on the sarcasm part but way off base with the other shit. I have a CCW permit. When I was working midnights downtown in a Detroit ER, I used to carry to and from the parking lot at night/morning. This was a couple years ago when it was "safe" down there. Never found college that scary that I ever even came close to entertaining the notion I needed/wanted to carry there, never once felt it should be my right, either. Time and a place for everything...

For many, safety isn't a sometimes thing, it's an all the time thing. Our weapon is essentially a part of us, present with us at all times. That's because 'safe areas' or 'safe times' are largely an illusion. Crime happens everywhere, so someone is either prepared to deal with everywhere, or they're not truly prepared anywhere.

 

[umbrella39]

I agree, bad guys are going to be everywhere all the time, not just sometime, even willing to shoot up a church on Sunday. People are already wanting to carry there, too. I'm not sure I'll ever feel it should be an all or none situation, I'm still on the fence as to whether or not some places should remain off limits though...

 

[Nebor]

I agree, bad guys are going to be everywhere all the time, not just sometime, even willing to shoot up a church on Sunday. People are already wanting to carry there, too. I'm not sure I'll ever feel it should be an all or none situation, I'm still on the fence as to whether or not some places should remain off limits though...

It's interesting you mention carrying to and from a hospital ER, but think that a school should be off limits. And wonder about churches. In Texas, hospitals are off limits, schools are off limits and churches allow CCW. Texas had a couple of the very famous church shootings.

 

[PrinceofWands]

I agree, bad guys are going to be everywhere all the time, not just sometime, even willing to shoot up a church on Sunday. People are already wanting to carry there, too. I'm not sure I'll ever feel it should be an all or none situation, I'm still on the fence as to whether or not some places should remain off limits though...

I have no problem with off limits areas...as long as they're secured facilities with armed security or law enforcement personnel at the bottlenecks. Courtrooms, airports, etc. Even then, there's no downside to allowing carry, since the individuals in question are more law abiding than the law enforcement personnel doing the guarding, but *shrug* I'm happy to compromise.

Just let us carry everywhere else, and stop the ignorant trolling about magazine capacity or what the gun bloody looks like (not you personally, just the anti movement in general). If you want to focus on crime or victimization, focus on THAT, not the guns.

 

[shortylickens]

Oh, forgot about this thread. Was gonna post here.


As a rule I am generally pro 2nd Amendment, but having been in college for the past 3 years I can honestly say this is the best place to make an argument against people carrying. The kiddies here are DUMB! Like three stooges dumb, only not nearly as entertaining. And they don't suddenly get smarter when they turn 21 either.
If Oregon has a very thorough conceal carry training program (which I know they dont, cuz I lived there, its a joke) then maybe I could support the notion.

Yes I know passing rules against guns only ensures the bad people will be carrying them around, but in the case of college kids I'd just as soon increase security.

 

[Nebor]

Oh, forgot about this thread. Was gonna post here.


As a rule I am generally pro 2nd Amendment, but having been in college for the past 3 years I can honestly say this is the best place to make an argument against people carrying. The kiddies here are DUMB! Like three stooges dumb, only not nearly as entertaining. And they don't suddenly get smarter when they turn 21 either.
If Oregon has a very thorough conceal carry training program (which I know they dont, cuz I lived there, its a joke) then maybe I could support the notion.

Yes I know passing rules against guns only ensures the bad people will be carrying them around, but in the case of college kids I'd just as soon increase security.

So are you saying that all the people with concealed handgun permits that go to your school shouldn't be allowed to carry their guns at the grocery store, the gas station or the movie theater? Do they get dumber when they walk on campus?

 

[shortylickens]

So are you saying that all the people with concealed handgun permits that go to your school shouldn't be allowed to carry their guns at the grocery store, the gas station or the movie theater? Do they get dumber when they walk on campus?

"All the people"?
What people are you talking about? My campus isnt in the middle town with city folk going back and forth all over the place. The only people going on it are students and teachers.

The rest of your statement is just logical fallacies to which I wont respond.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Oh, forgot about this thread. Was gonna post here.

As a rule I am generally pro 2nd Amendment, but having been in college for the past 3 years I can honestly say this is the best place to make an argument against people carrying. The kiddies here are DUMB! Like three stooges dumb, only not nearly as entertaining. And they don't suddenly get smarter when they turn 21 either.
If Oregon has a very thorough conceal carry training program (which I know they dont, cuz I lived there, its a joke) then maybe I could support the notion.

Yes I know passing rules against guns only ensures the bad people will be carrying them around, but in the case of college kids I'd just as soon increase security.

Problems with your position:

1) In no way is anyone encouraged to carry who doesn't already. If they already do or would anyway, the campus prohibition does nothing to keep them from carrying other places (except maybe delay it 1-2 years in extreme cases) where it has been demonstrated clearly that it isn't a problem.

2) 21 is the age of carry, like it or not. We can both completely agree about maturity levels in general, but political majority is 18/21 and that's that. What's more, that age limit hasn't been an issue in the 5 decades of licensed carry so far.

3) Oregon is more restrictive than some, less than others. Yet those criteria haven't been an issue anywhere. It doesn't matter if there are no hurdles (Vermont), or strict rules (Utah), the incidents of problems with legal carriers remain relatively constant (lower than any other demographic).

Everyone's entitled to an opinion, but not every opinion is a sustainable argument. In this case we have AMPLE evidence that none of your fears have any appreciable presence in reality.

 

[shortylickens]

Problems with your position:

1) In no way is anyone encouraged to carry who doesn't already. If they already do or would anyway, the campus prohibition does nothing to keep them from carrying other places (except maybe delay it 1-2 years in extreme cases) where it has been demonstrated clearly that it isn't a problem.

2) 21 is the age of carry, like it or not. We can both completely agree about maturity levels in general, but political majority is 18/21 and that's that. What's more, that age limit hasn't been an issue in the 5 decades of licensed carry so far.

3) Oregon is more restrictive than some, less than others. Yet those criteria haven't been an issue anywhere. It doesn't matter if there are no hurdles (Vermont), or strict rules (Utah), the incidents of problems with legal carriers remain relatively constant (lower than any other demographic).

Everyone's entitled to an opinion, but not every opinion is a sustainable argument. In this case we have AMPLE evidence that none of your fears have any appreciable presence in reality.

I love it when people accuse me of bad arguments, then base all theirs on logical fallacies.
Makes it so much easier to not get dragged into a pissing contest with you. Had you been more subtle you would have tricked me.

 

[monovillage]

I see you have a proud history of trolling Huff Post.\

How dare he have a different opinion then so many at Huffpo! How dare he!

 

[PrinceofWands]

I love it when people accuse me of bad arguments, then base all theirs on logical fallacies.
Makes it so much easier to not get dragged into a pissing contest with you. Had you been more subtle you would have tricked me.

Define the fallacies. I established that the law did nothing to change who was going to carry, only expand the areas into which they would carry. I established that age was not a factor, nor was training and licensing requirements. I further established that similar laws had never caused your fears to be realized in the past (placing the burden upon you to demonstrate why it would be different now).

In short, I removed any merit from your expressed opinion beyond its existence. Please explain the fallacy.

 

[schneiderguy]

Oh, forgot about this thread. Was gonna post here.


As a rule I am generally pro 2nd Amendment, but having been in college for the past 3 years I can honestly say this is the best place to make an argument against people carrying. The kiddies here are DUMB! Like three stooges dumb, only not nearly as entertaining. And they don't suddenly get smarter when they turn 21 either.
If Oregon has a very thorough conceal carry training program (which I know they dont, cuz I lived there, its a joke) then maybe I could support the notion.

Yes I know passing rules against guns only ensures the bad people will be carrying them around, but in the case of college kids I'd just as soon increase security.

CA has let CCW permit holders carry on campus for as long as the permit system has been in place and we have never had an incident.

As soon as I can get a CCW permit I will (should be less than 2 years, Calguns Foundation filed a suit against Santa Clara Country a few months ago) and I will carry on campus if I'm still in college. I refuse to be disarmed by "gun free zones" because I don't want to be a victim of the next psycho that shoots up his school.

 

[RampantAndroid]

I have no problem with off limits areas...as long as they're secured facilities with armed security or law enforcement personnel at the bottlenecks. Courtrooms, airports, etc. Even then, there's no downside to allowing carry, since the individuals in question are more law abiding than the law enforcement personnel doing the guarding, but *shrug* I'm happy to compromise.

Just let us carry everywhere else, and stop the ignorant trolling about magazine capacity or what the gun bloody looks like (not you personally, just the anti movement in general). If you want to focus on crime or victimization, focus on THAT, not the guns.

I agree, bad guys are going to be everywhere all the time, not just sometime, even willing to shoot up a church on Sunday. People are already wanting to carry there, too. I'm not sure I'll ever feel it should be an all or none situation, I'm still on the fence as to whether or not some places should remain off limits though...

It's not a black and white equation or where "bad" people will be, as PrinceofWands points out: Likewise, you don't just carry all the time. Do you plan ahead if you'll be a bar and leave it at home? Yes. Do you say "I'm going to church, better drop it"? No. I know people who carry at church. I know people who carry daily. That's not me, but that's them. A baddie is just as likely to show up at a school as a baddie at a mall. It's life, it happens. Had a CCW holder been present and allowed to carry at Virginia Tech, the gunman might have been stopped. Had a CCW holder been present at Gifford's speech she might have been saved (ironic, that she is pro-gun rights, but no one there had a gun on them.)

I personally only see a need to carry when in bad parts of town (which I avoid anyway) or when on trails with bear or big cat sightings..it makes sense there to be armed.

Oh, forgot about this thread. Was gonna post here.


As a rule I am generally pro 2nd Amendment, but having been in college for the past 3 years I can honestly say this is the best place to make an argument against people carrying. The kiddies here are DUMB! Like three stooges dumb, only not nearly as entertaining. And they don't suddenly get smarter when they turn 21 either.
If Oregon has a very thorough conceal carry training program (which I know they dont, cuz I lived there, its a joke) then maybe I could support the notion.

Yes I know passing rules against guns only ensures the bad people will be carrying them around, but in the case of college kids I'd just as soon increase security.

I'm all for a class to qualify to get a CCW on principal, although I'll say that allowing government any control over that is scary (only official places can give the test, so the state gov't stops certifying places as being able to give the class, preventing anyone from being qualified to get a CCW...we all know that'd happen.) But honestly: the people who you don't want carrying to a school are likely going to carry whether it is legal or not. We're not talking about criminals like this, we're talking about people breaking the law.

 

[PrinceofWands]

But honestly: the people who you don't want carrying to a school are likely going to carry whether it is legal or not. We're not talking about criminals like this, we're talking about people breaking the law.

Let's toss something else into this equation: policy vs law.

In many states it's not illegal to carry on campus, but it IS against school policy (which is actually sometimes a violation of law, like it was in Oregon and is in Washington).

So the people who carry often aren't breaking the law, just violating an illogical, unhelpful, and often unlawful policy.

 

[Nebor]

"All the people"?
What people are you talking about? My campus isnt in the middle town with city folk going back and forth all over the place. The only people going on it are students and teachers.

The rest of your statement is just logical fallacies to which I wont respond.

I'm talking about your students and teachers. Those same people can legally carry their guns everywhere else.

You can shove your "logical fallacies" right up your ass. It doesn't make you sound smart, and it has the opposite effect when you use the phrase unduly.

You're looking at things backwards. Don't look at students and say, "Well this fucktard doing a kegstand shouldn't be allowed to carry a gun." Look at your concealed handgun licensees out in town at the grocery store, the movie theater, the gas station, and ask yourself "Should this guy be a student?"

 

[RampantAndroid]

Let's toss something else into this equation: policy vs law.

In many states it's not illegal to carry on campus, but it IS against school policy (which is actually sometimes a violation of law, like it was in Oregon and is in Washington).

So the people who carry often aren't breaking the law, just violating an illogical, unhelpful, and often unlawful policy.

Likewise, my employer in WA claims that having a gun in your car is a direct violation of company policy and grounds for being fired. This is in direct violation of WA law, as my car is classified as my property, and they have no jurisdiction over what I have in my car. But for anything to happen, someone will need to bring a gun to work, leave it in their car and then be fired, so they can turn around and sue. It just won't happen. It's easier to just let things be.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

I know I would have felt a lot safer had I been allowed to carry during my college years. At U of M Dearborn there were tons of Arabs, Blacks, Asians, Indians... surprised I survived that eclectic mixture of humanity.

Hahaha you are so witty.

About as witty as a rapist targeting defenseless college age women on a campus.

/rolleyes

 

[PrinceofWands]

Likewise, my employer in WA claims that having a gun in your car is a direct violation of company policy and grounds for being fired. This is in direct violation of WA law, as my car is classified as my property, and they have no jurisdiction over what I have in my car. But for anything to happen, someone will need to bring a gun to work, leave it in their car and then be fired, so they can turn around and sue. It just won't happen. It's easier to just let things be.

If you'd like to get me hired I'd be happy to test case it for you.